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#7958988 - 08/06/13 Re: 9.3x62 [Re: Mule Deer]
jorgeI Offline
Campfire Kahuna

Registered: 06/20/03
Posts: 24449
Loc: Orange Park, Florida
That is interesting about the Swift. Used it on two buffalo in both 375 (300gr) and 416 (400gr) with good penetration. Also on Zebra, wildebeest, eland, kudu, with weight retention in the 90s. On the 9.3, our own Hatari loves his and has taken a lot of African head with it. On the other hand our departed member Greg Rodriguez said he'd never use it on Buffalo again.
_________________________
Originally Posted By JoeBob
I don't need a genealogy lesson from a Cuban mustefino who caught a ride over on a leaky 1957 Chevy that used milk jugs for floats.
Of course, I do have some lettuce that needs to be picked if you are interested.

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#7959000 - 08/06/13 Re: 9.3x62 [Re: jorgeI]
Mule Deer Online   content
Campfire Oracle

Registered: 07/24/01
Posts: 37012
Loc: Banana Belt, Montana
I've never seen any problem with the 400-grain .416 Swift A-Frame, and it's worked perfectly on the buffalo I've seen taken with it. Haven't ever seen the 300 .375 used on anything that I can recall, but have seen the 9.3 fail repeatedly, perhaps because (at least for a time) Swift made it by swaging down .375's.

I also tend to give less weight to weight retention than many people do. It's only once factor in bullet penetration, and in my experience less important than frontal area. In general, the lighter Partitions will penetrate just about the same as the lighter A-Frames, and the heavier ones, with the Partition moved forward, will penetrate deeper.
_________________________
John

"Gunwriters, as you know, aren't as informed as their readers are and if it wasn't for the readers, there would be no need for writers..."--Shrapnel, May 2015

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#7959037 - 08/06/13 Re: 9.3x62 [Re: Mule Deer]
jorgeI Offline
Campfire Kahuna

Registered: 06/20/03
Posts: 24449
Loc: Orange Park, Florida
I completely agree with the weight retention John, in fact one of the reasons I got away from Swifts is that their mushrooms were just too perfect and nice and round. I much prefer the jagged edges of the TSX including broken petals and the shearing off effect the Partitions have or even better the CEB Non-Cons. On the Partitions, when I first started loading the big stuff, the 375 had been discontinued and the 416 did not exist, the Xs sucked so the A Frame was the logical choice for me and at least in the calibers mentioned, they worked very well.
AS far as Woodleighs, great bullets-just as long as you stay under ~2300 fps. Above that and they just don't hold up.
Then I switched to TSXs and even better TTSXs and that's where I am now. Also, call me weird but I really like cannelures on bullets smile


Edited by jorgeI (08/06/13)
_________________________
Originally Posted By JoeBob
I don't need a genealogy lesson from a Cuban mustefino who caught a ride over on a leaky 1957 Chevy that used milk jugs for floats.
Of course, I do have some lettuce that needs to be picked if you are interested.

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#7959047 - 08/06/13 Re: 9.3x62 [Re: jorgeI]
FOsteology Offline
Campfire Outfitter

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 8122
Loc: Texas
If I were to use either my 9.3x62 or 9.3x74R on buff, I think I'd stoke it with 286gr. North Fork SP.

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#7959094 - 08/06/13 Re: 9.3x62 [Re: jorgeI]
Mule Deer Online   content
Campfire Oracle

Registered: 07/24/01
Posts: 37012
Loc: Banana Belt, Montana
Jorge,

I've seen the 9.3 A-Frames do everything except what a premium bullet should.

The first hit the big shoulder joint of a water buffalo bull. It did make it through the joint but not the rib-cage. It was found resting against a rib, mashed flat and retaining about 50% of its weight. The big problem was the rear core had busted through the partition.

Many people aren't aware that the rear core on A-Frames isn't bonded--just the core in the front end. This is why the rear end of A-Frames often expands, swelling right behind the partition, which also isn't solid. Instead it has a small hole that's filled with a little copper plug.

Saw several other examples of the same sort of failure with 9.3 A-Frames from the same rifle, chambered for a wildcat 9.3 about like the 9.3x64. Muzzle velocity was around 2650 fps, as I recall, which probably contributed to the problems. Have seen A-Frames in calibers from .270 to .30 work fine on various animals from faster magnums, but none of the animals were particularly large, and no heavy bone was encountered. The 400-grain .416's I've seen in action were all started at 2400 fps or a little less, which no doubt helps.
_________________________
John

"Gunwriters, as you know, aren't as informed as their readers are and if it wasn't for the readers, there would be no need for writers..."--Shrapnel, May 2015

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#7959101 - 08/06/13 Re: 9.3x62 [Re: Mule Deer]
jorgeI Offline
Campfire Kahuna

Registered: 06/20/03
Posts: 24449
Loc: Orange Park, Florida
I guess I'm safe then because you'll never see a 9.3 in my hands smile
_________________________
Originally Posted By JoeBob
I don't need a genealogy lesson from a Cuban mustefino who caught a ride over on a leaky 1957 Chevy that used milk jugs for floats.
Of course, I do have some lettuce that needs to be picked if you are interested.

Top
#7959104 - 08/06/13 Re: 9.3x62 [Re: FOsteology]
Mule Deer Online   content
Campfire Oracle

Registered: 07/24/01
Posts: 37012
Loc: Banana Belt, Montana
FOsteology,

Yeah, the North Fork would definitely be one of the better choices in the 9.3 for heavier game. I've used NF's some and like the combination of solid shank and small bonded lead core in the front end. They expand enough to do some damage, but the mushroom isn't so wide that it limits penetration.
_________________________
John

"Gunwriters, as you know, aren't as informed as their readers are and if it wasn't for the readers, there would be no need for writers..."--Shrapnel, May 2015

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#7961994 - 08/07/13 Re: 9.3x62 [Re: jorgeI]
hatari Offline
Campfire Outfitter

Registered: 10/05/04
Posts: 9380
Loc: Atlanta
Originally Posted By: jorgeI
I guess I'm safe then because you'll never see a 9.3 in my hands smile


We'll see about that, young Jedi!
_________________________
"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid." - Han Solo

"Diana should forbid all first timers from fulling their wish lists. All hunters need something to remember and something to dream of." - Hatari 2011

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#7962134 - 08/07/13 Re: 9.3x62 [Re: hatari]
jorgeI Offline
Campfire Kahuna

Registered: 06/20/03
Posts: 24449
Loc: Orange Park, Florida
Glad to see you back Doc! I figured that comment would flush you!
_________________________
Originally Posted By JoeBob
I don't need a genealogy lesson from a Cuban mustefino who caught a ride over on a leaky 1957 Chevy that used milk jugs for floats.
Of course, I do have some lettuce that needs to be picked if you are interested.

Top
#7962144 - 08/07/13 Re: 9.3x62 [Re: jorgeI]
458Win Offline
Campfire Guide

Registered: 01/05/05
Posts: 2675
Loc: AK peninsula
Hopefully Don Heath will find time to wade in here as he has a lot of personal African experience with the 9.3x62.
My experience with it here in Alaska on big bears has shown that there is very little - if any - difference between it and the 375.
_________________________
Phil Shoemaker
www.grizzlyskinsofalaska.com

Anyone who claims the 30-06 is not effective has either not used one, or else is unwittingly commenting on their marksmanship.

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#7962160 - 08/07/13 Re: 9.3x62 [Re: 458Win]
jorgeI Offline
Campfire Kahuna

Registered: 06/20/03
Posts: 24449
Loc: Orange Park, Florida
Phil, I don't think Don visit here much if at all, but yes he does love his!
_________________________
Originally Posted By JoeBob
I don't need a genealogy lesson from a Cuban mustefino who caught a ride over on a leaky 1957 Chevy that used milk jugs for floats.
Of course, I do have some lettuce that needs to be picked if you are interested.

Top
#7962177 - 08/07/13 Re: 9.3x62 [Re: 458Win]
hatari Offline
Campfire Outfitter

Registered: 10/05/04
Posts: 9380
Loc: Atlanta
Originally Posted By: 458Win
Hopefully Don Heath will find time to wade in here as he has a lot of personal African experience with the 9.3x62.
My experience with it here in Alaska on big bears has shown that there is very little if any difference between it and the 375.


That is what those of us who use it keep saying. "Ponodoro" Taylor summed it in his "African Rifles and Cartridges" by saying in essence the 9.3 X 62 doesn't generate a lot of discussion or controversy because it does its job well and everybody seems to be in agreement on that.
_________________________
"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid." - Han Solo

"Diana should forbid all first timers from fulling their wish lists. All hunters need something to remember and something to dream of." - Hatari 2011

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#7962183 - 08/07/13 Re: 9.3x62 [Re: 458Win]
hatari Offline
Campfire Outfitter

Registered: 10/05/04
Posts: 9380
Loc: Atlanta
Originally Posted By: 458Win
Hopefully Don Heath will find time to wade in here as he has a lot of personal African experience with the 9.3x62.
My experience with it here in Alaska on big bears has shown that there is very little - if any - difference between it and the 375.


Phil,

If you can find Jorge a bear to try it on, I'll get the rifle in his hands! smile
_________________________
"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid." - Han Solo

"Diana should forbid all first timers from fulling their wish lists. All hunters need something to remember and something to dream of." - Hatari 2011

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#7963646 - 08/08/13 Re: 9.3x62 [Re: Mule Deer]
luv2safari Offline
Campfire Kahuna

Registered: 12/31/06
Posts: 15087
Loc: NW NV & Far NW MT
Originally Posted By: Mule Deer
Jorge,

I've seen the 9.3 A-Frames do everything except what a premium bullet should.

The first hit the big shoulder joint of a water buffalo bull. It did make it through the joint but not the rib-cage. It was found resting against a rib, mashed flat and retaining about 50% of its weight. The big problem was the rear core had busted through the partition.

Many people aren't aware that the rear core on A-Frames isn't bonded--just the core in the front end. This is why the rear end of A-Frames often expands, swelling right behind the partition, which also isn't solid. Instead it has a small hole that's filled with a little copper plug.

Saw several other examples of the same sort of failure with 9.3 A-Frames from the same rifle, chambered for a wildcat 9.3 about like the 9.3x64. Muzzle velocity was around 2650 fps, as I recall, which probably contributed to the problems. Have seen A-Frames in calibers from .270 to .30 work fine on various animals from faster magnums, but none of the animals were particularly large, and no heavy bone was encountered. The 400-grain .416's I've seen in action were all started at 2400 fps or a little less, which no doubt helps.


John,

I watched a big Masailand buffalo get shot with a 9,3X64 Brenneke with 250gr A-frames...16 times! The PH finished it off with a 416 Rem. The hunter was a pompous sort who maintained his rifle with that combination was more than sufficient, as it had killed a bunch of elk, deer, and antelope. smirk
_________________________
Hunt with Class and Classics

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#7963752 - 08/08/13 Re: 9.3x62 [Re: jorgeI]
kutenay Offline
Campfire Outfitter

Registered: 03/15/04
Posts: 7739
Originally Posted By: jorgeI
I completely agree with the weight retention John, in fact one of the reasons I got away from Swifts is that their mushrooms were just too perfect and nice and round. I much prefer the jagged edges of the TSX including broken petals and the shearing off effect the Partitions have or even better the CEB Non-Cons. On the Partitions, when I first started loading the big stuff, the 375 had been discontinued and the 416 did not exist, the Xs sucked so the A Frame was the logical choice for me and at least in the calibers mentioned, they worked very well.
AS far as Woodleighs, great bullets-just as long as you stay under ~2300 fps. Above that and they just don't hold up.
Then I switched to TSXs and even better TTSXs and that's where I am now. Also, call me weird but I really like cannelures on bullets smile



WHAT, is a ...CEB Non Con...?

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#7963755 - 08/08/13 Re: 9.3x62 [Re: realitycheck]
vapodog Offline
Campfire Ranger

Registered: 12/04/04
Posts: 1788
Loc: Nebraska
Originally Posted By: realitycheck
African hunters: Is the 9.3x62 round with its heaviest bullet of around 300 grains considered sufficient for cleanly taking all the "big 5"?


I've never killed any of the "big five"....but here is something I can attest to....On my one and only safari, I was up close and personal with elephants.....and they are scary animals.....scary because their immense size is truly intimidating.

These is an old saying....."once you've been amongst them, there's no such thing as too much gun" and that is something I discovered in very short order.....

Is the 9.3 X 62 adequate?.....I can't say....but I certainly wouldn't be there hunting stuff that can "stomp me into a raspberry jelly" using a 9.3 if I could have used something with more authority.

IMO the confidence level one has in his firearm is critical to good shooting when the "rubber meets the road".....and while the .375 H&H isn't an enormous amount more.....it would take that as a minimum to get me to anything approaching a comfort level that I'd require as the threshold. In that light the 9.3 isn't adequate.....but for me!.....There's more to consider than merely ft-lb of energy!

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#7963802 - 08/08/13 Re: 9.3x62 [Re: kutenay]
jorgeI Offline
Campfire Kahuna

Registered: 06/20/03
Posts: 24449
Loc: Orange Park, Florida
_________________________
Originally Posted By JoeBob
I don't need a genealogy lesson from a Cuban mustefino who caught a ride over on a leaky 1957 Chevy that used milk jugs for floats.
Of course, I do have some lettuce that needs to be picked if you are interested.

Top
#7963825 - 08/08/13 Re: 9.3x62 [Re: vapodog]
Winchestermodel70 Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 12/10/11
Posts: 584
I have 9.3x62 and enjoy it a great deal. However, I would not use it for DG.

IMO, the best choice for the first shot on cape buff is a .416 Rigby and I only hunt elephant with a .470.

Whatever your choice for buff is, a well placed shot from a .4XX (whether it be a .404, .416, .458 Lott or whichever) is your best insurance against having to dig him out of thick cover later on.

For leopard (where legal), something between a .30/06 and a .338 loaded with a partition is a good choice for the first shot.

For lion, a .375 loaded with a partition for the first shot.

For elephant and rhino, a .470 or a .500 N.E. loaded with solids.

I'm currently testing Northfork softs and solids for next year's DG hunt (elephant/hippo/croc/cape buff) in my .416 and .470. Softs and solids in the .416 and only solids in the .470.

For non DG the 9.3x62 is an excellent choice for anything (including eland) under 200 yards. I don't think it has enough velocity to shock a cat's nervous system as well as some higher velocity rounds do and it simply isn't enough gun for rhino, cape buff or elephant. I know that others, some with a lot of experience, will disagree with me. But a 9.3x62 is basically a .30/06 necked up to .366. IMO, that isn't enough gun for the big stuff, unless you enjoy following up wounded DG.


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#7963996 - 08/08/13 Re: 9.3x62 [Re: vapodog]
hatari Offline
Campfire Outfitter

Registered: 10/05/04
Posts: 9380
Loc: Atlanta
Originally Posted By: vapodog
Originally Posted By: realitycheck
African hunters: Is the 9.3x62 round with its heaviest bullet of around 300 grains considered sufficient for cleanly taking all the "big 5"?



Is the 9.3 X 62 adequate?.....I can't say....but I certainly wouldn't be there hunting stuff that can "stomp me into a raspberry jelly" using a 9.3 if I could have used something with more authority.

IMO the confidence level one has in his firearm is critical to good shooting when the "rubber meets the road".....


To each his own. I've used it on several buffalo, and seen it used on a handful more. Worked every time very nicely. That has given me great confidence in it.

I would not use it for elephant, and in fact took mine with a .450/400 double.
_________________________
"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid." - Han Solo

"Diana should forbid all first timers from fulling their wish lists. All hunters need something to remember and something to dream of." - Hatari 2011

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#8001502 - 08/21/13 Re: 9.3x62 [Re: hatari]
The_Big_Game_Hunter Offline
Member

Registered: 11/28/12
Posts: 181
Loc: Washington
I my father and I each took big bull Cape Buffalo with the 9.3x62 on a safari in 2012 and I also killed an elephant with mine. I can attest that the cartridge is certainly adequate for dangerous game using the right bullets. Truth be told, you really aren't giving much up in performance or power to the .375 by using the 9.3.

That being said, the cartridge is not legal to use on dangerous game in many countries in Africa that require a .375 caliber minimum. If I were a PH for dangerous game I would not use the 9.3 or even a .375 for that matter. I'd use a much more powerful cartridge like a .416 Rigby, a .458 (Winchester or Lott), or something even bigger if possible if I needed to go toe to toe with elephant and buffalo on a regular basis.
_________________________
Big Game Hunting Adventures
http://www.biggamehuntingadventures.com/
South African & Canadian Hunting Adventures

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#8001716 - 08/21/13 Re: 9.3x62 [Re: The_Big_Game_Hunter]
realitycheck Offline
Member

Registered: 07/30/13
Posts: 181
Loc: all over
Originally Posted By: The_Big_Game_Hunter
I my father and I each took big bull Cape Buffalo with the 9.3x62 on a safari in 2012 and I also killed an elephant with mine. I can attest that the cartridge is certainly adequate for dangerous game using the right bullets. Truth be told, you really aren't giving much up in performance or power to the .375 by using the 9.3.

That being said, the cartridge is not legal to use on dangerous game in many countries in Africa that require a .375 caliber minimum. If I were a PH for dangerous game I would not use the 9.3 or even a .375 for that matter. I'd use a much more powerful cartridge like a .416 Rigby, a .458 (Winchester or Lott), or something even bigger if possible if I needed to go toe to toe with elephant and buffalo on a regular basis.


wow that's great stuff? if I may ask, what bullet did you use on the elephant? was it a headshot?

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#8002283 - 08/21/13 Re: 9.3x62 [Re: jorgeI]
realitycheck Offline
Member

Registered: 07/30/13
Posts: 181
Loc: all over



ok.the additional research says the Lott is a good round to me.
thanks.

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#8002290 - 08/21/13 Re: 9.3x62 [Re: The_Big_Game_Hunter]
hatari Offline
Campfire Outfitter

Registered: 10/05/04
Posts: 9380
Loc: Atlanta
Originally Posted By: The_Big_Game_Hunter
Truth be told, you really aren't giving much up in performance or power to the .375 by using the 9.3.

That being said, the cartridge is not legal to use on dangerous game in many countries in Africa that require a .375 caliber minimum. If I were a PH for dangerous game I would not use the 9.3 or even a .375 for that matter. I'd use a much more powerful cartridge like a .416 Rigby, a .458 (Winchester or Lott), or something even bigger if possible if I needed to go toe to toe with elephant and buffalo on a regular basis.


I think most would agree with that. As a PH, I'd want a "stopper", .450 #20 NE double would be my first choice.
_________________________
"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid." - Han Solo

"Diana should forbid all first timers from fulling their wish lists. All hunters need something to remember and something to dream of." - Hatari 2011

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#8002733 - 08/21/13 Re: 9.3x62 [Re: realitycheck]
The_Big_Game_Hunter Offline
Member

Registered: 11/28/12
Posts: 181
Loc: Washington
I used 286gr Woodleigh FMJs on the elephant. I took body shots on it and a finishing shot in the head. While they worked ok, I would not use them again. I recovered the final shot into the skull and it was deformed.
_________________________
Big Game Hunting Adventures
http://www.biggamehuntingadventures.com/
South African & Canadian Hunting Adventures

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