Home Forums Reloading Big Game Rifles Compressed loads and velocity

Nope, that would be very helpful as well.

Thanks

My point being that the OP and just about every handloader out there says the same crap, "I didn't see any pressure signs" so I'm Good-to-Go. If one is to load until these mysterious signs appear, then back down a "tad" till they go away, it would not only be helpful, but imperative that he/she knew at what PSI they reared their ugly head.

On the same note, loading above published Max and NOT seeing any of these signs does NOT mean that the load is safe as in the OP. Unless of course he knew at what PSI these "Pressure Sign" showed up.



Without this information, looking for any and all pressure signs is basically akin to reading tea leaves.

Solution, Follow Published Load data or purchase pressure testing equipment.

My uncle used to be a real speed demon, his philosophy was to load 5 grains over published maximum loads. He never seemed to have as much fun at the range as we did, because either his bullets were disintegrating before they hit the target, or mostly because he was too busy POUNDING HIS [bleep]' BOLT OPEN WITH A HAMMER. Of course I don't have any real data to prove this, or video, because this took place in the 80's, so I could be lying, but guess how he reloads now? I wonder if is his loads were too hot? I'm done now, was just trying to give sound advice.

Without pressuring testing equipment it's anyones guess as to why the additional grain boosted the velocity so much higher than previous charges. I will say there is generally a direct relationship between pressure and velocity, so that added velocity came with a similar jump in pressure. Is it possible that the 59gr load was really closer to 60gr?

I've never found compressing a load in and of itself to result in a noticeable jump in velocity.

If you're curious, try another set of loads at 58, 58.5 and 59 gr and measure velocity. I've seen a variety of data for the whelen with quite a disparity in top powder charges and velocities as well as read of various peoples results and have seen how that performed in my 35 whelen ackley.

All that said, 59gr RL15 should be around a top charge with a 225gr bullet, though with the added length of the tsx perhaps a bit too much.

My Whelen story is this.

Most people around here shoot Whelens in either T/C Encores or Handi rifles during primitive season. Most that handload use RL15 and 225gr SGK or NAB. The 2 loads I was referred most were 59.5gr and 60.0gr. I started at 59 with no pressure signs and fair group. 59.5 no pressure and better group (about MOA). 60.0 gr the recoil knocked me backwards in my chair! Still no pressure signs on first shot casing so tried the second one with same effect. Decided not to fire the third one and I hunt with the 59.5gr load.

There was a TREMENDOUS difference in that last 1/2 grain!

Bingo!!

For those of us who have the old manuals is it O.K. to use those loads even if they differ from newer manuals?

The newer manuals are generated using more reliable measuring methods, and the propellents will be current manufacture.

I've noticed that there seems to be some "calming down" of the data.

Which is not bad. If you really need more performance, just go to a bigger case. I played around with the .30-06 AI, trying to see what it would really do. What I found was that loads that strained it to the gills produced speeds that were easily obtained with a .300 WinMag....

Let me answer your question and see what you think:

I fired the follow ups with the 58 grn charge before I left the range. In fact I was already packing up then I had the thought to do that to rule out something with the chronograph.

The ambient temp was probably in the 70s. It was sunny but I was shooting under a covered bench and the chrono was set up in the shade.

If flattened primers aren't a good sign of pressure and the bolt lift was easy, what else do I look for?

Interestingly, I stopped at the Sportsman's Warehouse today on the way home and was lucky enough to find two manuals opened on the shelf that I don't have.

The Lyman's shows max load for 225 grn TSX to be 58.5 grns Re15, just half a grain less than I'm using.

A Speer's shows max load for their 220 grn flat nose at 60 grns Re15.

So, if buying pressure measuring equipment is the answer, why is it that the people who publish these reloading manuals come up with such different results? I guess that measuring pressure isn't really an exact science?

Overly high velocity.

Do you have another chronograph you can use?

Perhaps a second firing with the original, the lighting conditions will have changed. Maybe set the chrono a few feet farther away.

Anyway, please post any new developments.

McInnis,

Perhaps there are those here who never gave lawyers a thought. I have a theory the lawyers influence the new manuals more than the pressure equipment.

Look in the Lyman book. It shows load data for particular bullets. With pressure data for the exact recipe. Not for a substitute bullet. Switch to a unlisted bullet of the same weight, the pressure data is just a reference point. Then each lot of powder changes the pressure data on every bullet. This is why the best practice is to load out of 8lb jugs.

With a 140 AMAX, 43.8 grains of H4350 in a Lapua hull produces the same velocity as 44.5 grains in an R-P hull in my 260... same powder lot, same bullet lot, same primer lot, same gun. Why? because it takes less powder in the smaller displacement case to produce the same pressure. 44.5 grains in the Lapua case will exceed book velocity by a fair margin... with no pressure signs.

Back off your load to match max book speeds at most for the bullet you're shooting.

You asked the question... listen to the answers.

I am listening to the answers, thank you very much for that sterling advice.

I just found Nosler's on-line reloading guide that shows 59 grns Re15 as the max load for their 225 grn bullet. So I guess I'm not so much over max published loads, depending on what reference I use.

Nosler data is for Copper jacketed bullets, you are loading an All Copper Barnes bullet. Data between these two types of bullets often times is quite different. It's best to use data of same weight and similar construction when switching bullet manufacturers.

Barnes has On-Line data for their 200gr TSX with R-15. They list a Max charge of 57.5gr. Your bullet is 225gr, your load is 1.5gr over Max with 25gr more bullet. You might be more over published Max then you think.

You are, because you're way high on velocity.

Agreed, couple that high velocity with Barnes data and it's difficult to accept that this load is not over pressure.

You asked the question... listen to the answers.



You're not shooting Noslers, so it doesn't make a [bleep] what Nosler says.

What does BARNES say? 2600ish...

I think that there are a bunch of principles that you need to get a grasp of before you continue reloading. You need to understand issues like:
� the effect of different brands of brass (Federal is pretty thick stuff and has less capacity than most, same with Remington - consequently they produce higher pressures with the same powder charge),
� different bearing surfaces of bullets with the same overall weight (monolithic bullets have longer bearing surfaces) have a significant effect on pressure and velocity,
� every gun is a law unto itself, and what's safe in one gun isn't safe in another (chamber sizes vary).
Mainly, please keep in mind that load data is for one particular gun, and that there's a reason that the brand/type of bullet, primer, and case are listed. Just going with the powder amount and ignoring the other variables is a dangerous proposition.
Safety first!