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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 34,138
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 34,138 |
Here is what Quickload calculates with your load, over 67K psi. Cartridge : .35 Whelen
Bullet : .358, 225, Barnes 'TSX' 35824
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.330 inch or 84.58 mm
Barrel Length : 24.0 inch or 609.6 mm
Powder : Alliant Reloder-15
Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !
Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms
-20.0 88 47.20 2255 2542 34461 6105 91.3 1.438
-18.0 90 48.38 2310 2666 36829 6281 92.4 1.399
-16.0 92 49.56 2364 2793 39342 6451 93.4 1.360
-14.0 94 50.74 2419 2923 42026 6614 94.4 1.322
-12.0 96 51.92 2473 3056 44904 6769 95.3 1.285
-10.0 99 53.10 2528 3192 47993 6915 96.1 1.248
-08.0 101 54.28 2582 3331 51311 7053 96.8 1.211
-06.0 103 55.46 2636 3472 54878 7181 97.5 1.176 ! Near Maximum !
-04.0 105 56.64 2691 3617 58715 7299 98.1 1.142 ! Near Maximum !
-02.0 107 57.82 2745 3763 62848 7405 98.6 1.109 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+00.0 110 59.00 2798 3912 67306 7501 99.0 1.077 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+02.0 112 60.18 2852 4064 72121 7584 99.4 1.047 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0 114 61.36 2906 4218 77330 7654 99.7 1.017 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+06.0 116 62.54 2959 4374 82976 7712 99.9 0.989 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+08.0 118 63.72 3012 4533 89108 7755 100.0 0.961 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+10.0 120 64.90 3065 4694 95782 7784 100.0 0.934 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Last edited by steve4102; 08/16/13.
Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Give a man a welfare check, a forty ounce malt liquor, a crack pipe, an Obama phone, free health insurance. and some Air Jordan's and he votes Democrat for a lifetime.
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,478
Campfire Regular
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OP
Campfire Regular
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,478 |
Barnes has On-Line data for their 200gr TSX with R-15. They list a Max charge of 57.5gr. Your bullet is 225gr, your load is 1.5gr over Max with 25gr more bullet. You might be more over published Max then you think. Did you read that I said the Lyman manual shows a load for 225 grn TXS with a max of 58.5 grains of Reloader 15?
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,478
Campfire Regular
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OP
Campfire Regular
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,478 |
There's an active thread on this forum now called ".35 Whelen Load data dump". You guys who think I'm living dangerously should probably stay away from it.
Anyway, it doesn't sound like anyone thinks that compressing a load should result in the kind of velocity increase I saw. I think I'll try to borrow another chronograph and check my results. Couldn't hurt.
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 34,138
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 34,138 |
Barnes has On-Line data for their 200gr TSX with R-15. They list a Max charge of 57.5gr. Your bullet is 225gr, your load is 1.5gr over Max with 25gr more bullet. You might be more over published Max then you think. Did you read that I said the Lyman manual shows a load for 225 grn TXS with a max of 58.5 grains of Reloader 15? I did, I even looked it up. Did YOU read the load data completely? Lyman also list a velocity of 2519fpswith 58.5gr out of a 24 inch barrel. You not only exceeded Lyman's charge weight you exceeded their velocity by over 200fps. With an increase in velocity comes an increase in pressure. Believe it or don't, it's your life.
Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Give a man a welfare check, a forty ounce malt liquor, a crack pipe, an Obama phone, free health insurance. and some Air Jordan's and he votes Democrat for a lifetime.
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,354
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,354 |
Gotta admire a guy, who doesn't even know enough to know that brass thickness varies greatly among makers and can greatly effect pressure and velocity, coming on the internet to ask advice about his loads... then replying consistently with ignorant rebuttals of why the advice and reasons he's getting roughly 200 fps more than book velocity are all wrong. You should read my signature line. It's somewhat applicable to your situation. ![[Linked Image]](http://i942.photobucket.com/albums/ad268/boxerluvjen/thefinger.gif) Be sure and keep this thread updated with your loads and velocities. Also be sure and let us know how many loads your brass withstands before your primers fall out.
"Your range of experience runs that gamut from A to B, plus you're a nitwit. That's a hard combination to overcome, though some people try." - JB
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,478
Campfire Regular
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OP
Campfire Regular
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,478 |
OK, enough.
Why can't a thread go four pages here anymore without some jackass showing up and saying "LOOK AT ME"?
I obviously realized that the case thickness could make a difference, I asked the question about it. I just didn't appreciate being lectured on overpressure as if I just started reloading yesterday.
I have tried to be respectful of everyone's opinion, just stated that different sources vary greatly on the max load for the same bullet and powder. Even cited a source for Reloader15 and Barnes TSX bullets, which you apparently didn't read before spouting off with your next smart-ass comment.
And don't bother with a response. I won't read it.
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,354
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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Posts: 1,354 |
different sources vary greatly on the max load for the same bullet and powder. Even cited a source for Reloader15 and Barnes TSX bullets, which you apparently didn't read before spouting off with your next smart-ass comment.
I did, and I read the reply with the velocity Lyman achieved. Are you incapable of making the correlation between velocity and pressure? Since you're inept at reading sign... here's a summary of responses to your load. I am getting a higher velocity than any of my reloading manuals show, but at heavier powder loads.
If flattened primers aren't a good sign of pressure and the bolt lift was easy, what else do I look for?
Overly high velocity. Barnes has On-Line data for their 200gr TSX with R-15. They list a Max charge of 57.5gr. Your bullet is 225gr, your load is 1.5gr over Max with 25gr more bullet. You might be more over published Max then you think. So I guess I'm not so much over max published loads, depending on what reference I use. You are, because you're way high on velocity. Here is what Quickload calculates with your load, over 67K psi. Cartridge : .35 Whelen
Bullet : .358, 225, Barnes 'TSX' 35824
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.330 inch or 84.58 mm
Barrel Length : 24.0 inch or 609.6 mm
Powder : Alliant Reloder-15
Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !
Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms
+00.0 110 59.00 2798 3912 67306 7501 99.0 1.077 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Did YOU read the load data completely? Lyman also list a velocity of 2519fpswith 58.5gr out of a 24 inch barrel. You not only exceeded Lyman's charge weight you exceeded their velocity by over 200fps.
With an increase in velocity comes an increase in pressure. Happy shooting...
"Your range of experience runs that gamut from A to B, plus you're a nitwit. That's a hard combination to overcome, though some people try." - JB
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 478
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 478 |
From barnes site; 200 TSX: RL 15, MIN 52.5 2593 MAX 57.5 2775 92% Dude, RL15/57.5 is max for their 200 grainer. Simple extrapolation would say you're over max powder for the 225 TSX. If it were me, I would break that load down and start over with it. Something isnt adding up. In my book you have big red flags. -Over max charge weight, even by estimation using the 200gr barnes data. -High velocity. -IIRC, A 225gr TSX is not the same as even a 225 Sierra, Nosler AB..etc. They're longer. Max I was ever able to get from my Whelen, when I had, it was about 2650fps avg. from the old 225gr Nosler BT with RL15/58 grains (tad of a stiff bolt lift). That was tested on a georgia autum day. I settled on 57 grains @ 2600fps avg as the load. No way in hell could I have ran it up to Nosler's Max of 59.5. Not with any sort of common sense. Even though I was younger and stupider in those days.  Besides I would like to know what Pixie dust nosler puts in some of their loads data. i.e. their 200gr/IMR4350 8x57 data. They must be cutting their 4350 with crack.
Last edited by Paulh; 08/17/13.
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Joined: Feb 2008
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Campfire Regular
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"Next question is, at what PSI do these signs appear? We are all taught to look for them. Once we find them, back down a 1/2 or a full grain so they basically go away. Are the loads now safe and withing safe pressures for that cartridge? How would we know if we do not know at what PSI they develop in the first place?"
Goodness, the constant seeking of precise wild azz guesses; all that would be amusing if not so dangerous. Common sense has to play a part in everything we do snd no 'web rule' is going to substitute for that. Backing off a half grain in a too hot Hornet charge might be all right but it would mean little in a 7mm STW. Making the signs "basically go away" is better than not but it sure doesn't bring pressures down to established safe limits.
It's the fact that we don't know, and cannot know, much which makes following book loads from people who do know critical, and understanding even that can be exesssive for individual rifles is our only guide.
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