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#7993681 - 08/18/13 Powerbelt Aerolite VS Thor Bullets Velocity
bigblock455 Offline
Campfire Guide

Registered: 05/24/07
Posts: 2777
250 Powerbelt Aerolite VS 250 Thor Hollow Point

I put this test together this evening with the CVA Apex .50cal 25" barrel, 1:28 twist. 100gr Blackhorn209, CCI 209 Magnum primers.

3 to 5 minutes between shots for barrel cool down.

The Thors were from my sizing sample and therefore, not the ballistic tips I normally shoot. These were .500" and load just like a powerbelt.

Now I am not sure what distance Powerbelt tests their velocity, but their info is MUCH lower in velocity than mine. They show it doing 1820 FPS. I checked the BH209 website and looked at the info they listed for the 300gr Aerolite which was 1831 FPS and Powerbelts website lists it at 1816 FPS. So again, not sure what system Powerbelt uses for the info given, but its off.

I did my testing at roughly 14 to 15 feet with the Chrony Beta Master with no sun shades as it was clouded over.



Green markings are the Aerolite with NO Gas check at the base. Powerbelts I hear, shoot the same without this gas check in place.. Hmmm, interesting, especially since the velocity changed greatly. Along with point of impact.


Thor = 1989 AVG velocity
Aerolite = 1914 AVG velocity
Aerolite with NO gas check = 1865 AVG velocity

Velocity in the heat was only 7 FPS faster than it was in the winter when I first chronoed the Aerolite. Velocity in the cold was 1907 FPS Average.

When my order of the ballistic tip thors comes in, I can see is there is any difference in velocity with those.

But again, Powerbelt lists the 250 AL doing 1820 FPS with a 100gr Blackhorn209 charge. I think they may be testing at a much further distance?
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#7994121 - 08/19/13 Re: Powerbelt Aerolite VS Thor Bullets Velocity [Re: bigblock455]
smokepole Online   content
Campfire Kahuna

Registered: 06/30/06
Posts: 15440
Loc: Colorado
Maybe they tested with a different rifle, or one with a different length barrel, or something really unusual like that.
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#7994202 - 08/19/13 Re: Powerbelt Aerolite VS Thor Bullets Velocity [Re: smokepole]
bigblock455 Offline
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Registered: 05/24/07
Posts: 2777
Maybe a pistol, but i highly doubt that.
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#7994295 - 08/19/13 Re: Powerbelt Aerolite VS Thor Bullets Velocity [Re: bigblock455]
smokepole Online   content
Campfire Kahuna

Registered: 06/30/06
Posts: 15440
Loc: Colorado
Do you really believe that shooting a few rounds over a Master Chrony and getting different velocities than the bullet manufacturer lists is enough to conclude that the bullet manufacturer's data are "off?"
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#7994341 - 08/19/13 Re: Powerbelt Aerolite VS Thor Bullets Velocity [Re: smokepole]
bigblock455 Offline
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Registered: 05/24/07
Posts: 2777
yes, I checked on the blackhorn209 website as well, Powerbelts info is badly off for the aerolite with BH209. I can check their pellet stuff and see about that as well.

Its more than a few rounds, ive been shooting for a chronograph for years.

At 1820 FPS, My 58cal round ball shooter, shoots faster than an aerolite with 100gr bh209.
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#7994588 - 08/19/13 Re: Powerbelt Aerolite VS Thor Bullets Velocity [Re: bigblock455]
smokepole Online   content
Campfire Kahuna

Registered: 06/30/06
Posts: 15440
Loc: Colorado
If you really believe the information you've presented in your post above is sufficent to conclude that the bullet manufacturer's data are "off," do yourself a favor and run it by some guys who do this kind of testing for a living. Cut and paste your post into the gunwriter's forum and ask Mule Deer if your data are good enough to conclude that the bullet manufacturer's data are off.

Be sure and mention that it's one day of testing, and be sure and mention the make and model of your chronograph.

Hell's bells, you don't even know what barrel length the manufacturer used.
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#7994712 - 08/19/13 Re: Powerbelt Aerolite VS Thor Bullets Velocity [Re: smokepole]
bigblock455 Offline
Campfire Guide

Registered: 05/24/07
Posts: 2777
lol okay how about you do some chronographing then my friend.

Exactly, I said i have no clue what gun or what distance they set their testing up at.

I know western powders uses barrels that are not even on guns.

You supporting powerbelts velocity info though only shows how much slower the powerbelt really shoots. 1820 FPS?!! I say a typo someone over looked.
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#7995373 - 08/19/13 Re: Powerbelt Aerolite VS Thor Bullets Velocity [Re: bigblock455]
smokepole Online   content
Campfire Kahuna

Registered: 06/30/06
Posts: 15440
Loc: Colorado
Originally Posted By: bigblock455
lol okay how about you do some chronographing then my friend.......


You supporting powerbelts velocity info though only shows how much slower the powerbelt really shoots. 1820 FPS?!! I say a typo someone over looked.


Why would I waste my time chronographing a bullet I don't shoot at a velocity I don't shoot, I'm not the one trying to prove something here. Why would I chronograph anything with a Shooting Chrony and then think I had good enough data to conclude that the bullet manufacturer's data were no good?

Why don't you post your data in the gunwriter's forum, tell the gunwriters you've concluded that the bullet manufacturer's data are no good, and see what they think? They're experts. You and I are not.

I don't think you get what I'm saying here. I'm not "supporting powerbelts velocity," I'm saying that what you've done here (once again) proves nothing.


It is telling though. It shows that your experience in evaluating chronograph data is fairly limited. Shooting over an inexpensive chronograph, especially an inaccurate one with the short distance between the screens that you're using provides useful data, but even with a quality chronograph it's very common to get field data that don't match what the bullet manufacturers show in their manuals.

And it's not because the bullet manufacturers' data are "off." Different rifles shoot different velocities. And your chronograph and the tests you've run aren't good enough to negate a bullet manufacturer's data.

My main use of a chronograph is for testing centerfire loads. In lots of different chamberings, makes, and models of rifles. It's fairly common to get velocities that don't match the loading manuals.

And all this time, I never knew that I was right, and they were wrong. Who knew?
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#7995570 - 08/19/13 Re: Powerbelt Aerolite VS Thor Bullets Velocity [Re: smokepole]
saddlesore Online   content
Campfire 'Bwana

Registered: 06/22/01
Posts: 11614
Loc: Colorado Springs, CO, USA
I don't know about all this, but I do know I have killed elk with one shot, bang/flop with a Marlin 94, 44 mag carbine using 240n grain Speer Semi jacketed flat points going about the same velocity of 1800 fps and nothing was lacking. I think some guys get so tied yup in this minutia that they think the elk now days have kevlar hides.

Anything in the 300gr bullet weight realm with a suitable powder charge out of a muzzle loader is going to kill an elk if placed right.
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#7995933 - 08/19/13 Re: Powerbelt Aerolite VS Thor Bullets Velocity [Re: saddlesore]
bigblock455 Offline
Campfire Guide

Registered: 05/24/07
Posts: 2777
im just showing how much better the thor is when it comes to velocity and the fact that you can push them as fast as you want.

and yes, there is NOWAY the powerbelt aerolite 250 grain bullet is 1,820. Thats way to slow with 100gr BH209. Their info is off.
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#7996598 - 08/19/13 Re: Powerbelt Aerolite VS Thor Bullets Velocity [Re: bigblock455]
smokepole Online   content
Campfire Kahuna

Registered: 06/30/06
Posts: 15440
Loc: Colorado
How many bullet manufacturers use a Shooting Chrony to devlop their ballistics data?
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#7996743 - 08/19/13 Re: Powerbelt Aerolite VS Thor Bullets Velocity [Re: smokepole]
bigblock455 Offline
Campfire Guide

Registered: 05/24/07
Posts: 2777
Lots of the pros use this kind of chrony. I love being able to change things out little by little until i see the improvements on target and the consistency over the chrony. I wasnt big on them either at the time, but once you know YOUR numbers and punch them into the online ballistics program, that helps a lot. I know with the thor load I am only 8" low at 200 yards and thats very doable on elk if they dont spook. Deer... eeeh maybe 160, they are awful small with a thick blade sight.

Smokepole, on a serious note, you really should give one a try. I used to knock blackhorn209 before i got a couple pounds to try out. Now its like being a crack head, you just cant sit still while you know its around for shooting LOL.

I did do some work on the range today and leveled both my table and then set up a platform for the chrony, everything is level now.
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#7998034 - 08/20/13 Re: Powerbelt Aerolite VS Thor Bullets Velocity [Re: bigblock455]
smokepole Online   content
Campfire Kahuna

Registered: 06/30/06
Posts: 15440
Loc: Colorado
I don't know of any "pros" that run tests with Shooting Chronys and then use the data to say in public that their data prove a bullet manufacturer's data are "off."

Why don't you post a question on that in the gunwriter's forum. Tell Mule Deer and the other experts that you want to run tests to prove a bullet manufacturer's data are off, and ask him if your Chrony is the right tool for the job.
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#7998561 - 08/20/13 Re: Powerbelt Aerolite VS Thor Bullets Velocity [Re: smokepole]
bigblock455 Offline
Campfire Guide

Registered: 05/24/07
Posts: 2777
I already know its off, they list pellet powder being faster than BH209. In fact, if i look through that little booklet that comes with the bullets, 100gr pellets is 1819 FPS for the 250 aerolite. BH209 is a hell of a lot faster than pellets.

1831 fps for t7 pellets

heck they dont even list the aerolite for pyrodex pellets,but the 245gr aerotip is right at 1900 fps and pyrodex is SLOWER than t7 pellets.

Still have faith in their ballistics data? I sure dont. I will go with western powders ballistics instead.
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#7998580 - 08/20/13 Re: Powerbelt Aerolite VS Thor Bullets Velocity [Re: bigblock455]
bigblock455 Offline
Campfire Guide

Registered: 05/24/07
Posts: 2777
ooooh yeah look at this off of the blackhorn209 a company that owns their own testing facility and makes powder for a living.

100gr charges of Blackhorn209
245 Aerotip - 1,851
270 Platinum - 1,764
295gr Aerotip - 1,693
444 Flat Point - 1,597

Now comparing it to the powerbelt website, everything is very close EXCEPT the 444, powerbelt lists it doing 1,640 FPS which seems very high. Blackhorn doesnt list the 250gr aerolite in their tests online, but from the looks of it, powerbelt made an oopsie in their 1820 fps.
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#7999038 - 08/20/13 Re: Powerbelt Aerolite VS Thor Bullets Velocity [Re: bigblock455]
smokepole Online   content
Campfire Kahuna

Registered: 06/30/06
Posts: 15440
Loc: Colorado
Originally Posted By: bigblock455


Now comparing it to the powerbelt website, everything is very close EXCEPT the 444, powerbelt lists it doing 1,640 FPS which seems very high.



Do you really think a difference of 43 fps is significant, considering you don't even know the barrel lenghts and other test conditions?

It's a yes or no question.
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#7999048 - 08/20/13 Re: Powerbelt Aerolite VS Thor Bullets Velocity [Re: smokepole]
bigblock455 Offline
Campfire Guide

Registered: 05/24/07
Posts: 2777
they have info for 26 and 28 inch barrels on the website. You wont notice a huge velocity difference with the 24 to 28 inch barrels though. Now with smokeless, yeah you will see a couple hundred FPS difference.

My m44 mosin nagant with a 20" barrel - 2600 flat, my brothers m9130 with the 29" barrel shoots 2890 fps. Even when i had a Traditions LDR with the 30" barrel, it only picked up 75 fps more than the 24" wolf barrel.
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#7999069 - 08/20/13 Re: Powerbelt Aerolite VS Thor Bullets Velocity [Re: bigblock455]
smokepole Online   content
Campfire Kahuna

Registered: 06/30/06
Posts: 15440
Loc: Colorado
LOL, it's a yes or no question, and you didn't come close to answering it.
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#7999218 - 08/20/13 Re: Powerbelt Aerolite VS Thor Bullets Velocity [Re: smokepole]
bigblock455 Offline
Campfire Guide

Registered: 05/24/07
Posts: 2777
It matters when you are shooting long range. Especially when the company gives you data on bullet drop. I think we can agree on some people are actually crazy enough to shoot 50 yards and then come on the net and ask us where we think they will hit at 200 yards.
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#7999237 - 08/20/13 Re: Powerbelt Aerolite VS Thor Bullets Velocity [Re: bigblock455]
smokepole Online   content
Campfire Kahuna

Registered: 06/30/06
Posts: 15440
Loc: Colorado
The question was not "does a difference of 43 fps matter," so you still haven't answered it.

But seriously, you shoot long-range with a 444-grain bore-sized conical?

Seems to me there are much better bullets for that application, but to each his own.
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#7999466 - 08/20/13 Re: Powerbelt Aerolite VS Thor Bullets Velocity [Re: smokepole]
bigblock455 Offline
Campfire Guide

Registered: 05/24/07
Posts: 2777
not really, any ballistics on a 444+ grain conical wont be that great. 45-70 was a 600-800 yard gun, even some muzzleloaders back in the original days used to shoot huge slugs for competition and sport hunting.

Long range shooting, a heavy bullet is what you want to retain energy and its also less affected by wind.

One reason i like my 58. It does have poorer ballistics over the 54 but that big ball is going to leave a big hole in what ever it hits.
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#7999524 - 08/20/13 Re: Powerbelt Aerolite VS Thor Bullets Velocity [Re: bigblock455]
smokepole Online   content
Campfire Kahuna

Registered: 06/30/06
Posts: 15440
Loc: Colorado
Originally Posted By: bigblock455


Long range shooting, a heavy bullet is what you want to retain energy and its also less affected by wind.


If I wanted to shoot a muzzleloader at long range, a saboted spitzer would be my choice. Higher BC and higher velocity than any bore-sized bullet.

It's not the weight of the bullet that bucks wind, it's the BC.

Of course if you want to shoot long range with sabots, you may as well just use a centerfire.
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#7999529 - 08/20/13 Re: Powerbelt Aerolite VS Thor Bullets Velocity [Re: smokepole]
bigblock455 Offline
Campfire Guide

Registered: 05/24/07
Posts: 2777
Parker has a new 325gr sabot, have you seen it? I heard the BC on it is amazing.

Heck my 58 I am working on 200 yard loads for. I want to just have some fun and see what she can do for groups at that distance.
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