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jt402--You apparently are not doing something right. More specifically, several somethings.

I shoot both paper patched ammo and greasers. I hunt with both. My grease groove ammo does not attract grime or dirt. If yours does, you are not loading it correctly.

As far as paper patched ammo is concerned, I have no problem whatever unloading my rifle and having the bullet stick in the lands. When I remove the unfired cartridge, the paper patched bullet comes out still in the case. You are apparently not loading your paper patched ammo correctly, either. You are not expecting too much, you just have to do it correctly. FWIW, I don't like or use tapered bullets either.

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Jack,
I'm sure Bill will be PMing and phoning you about his way of loading hunting bullets but there are several (or more).

If you want to explore it, I'd be happy to tell you what I do and what some others do that works very well. I'm sure something along one of those lines will work for you.

We could discuss it here or feel free to email or PM me. Whatever works for you.

Brent



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I will get back to you next week. A hectic weekend is in the works. Clue--three granddaughters till about Wednesday. Thanks, jack


"Do not blame Caesar, blame the people...who have...rejoiced in their loss of freedom....Blame the people who hail him when he speaks of the 'new, wonderful, good, society'...to mean ,..living fatly at the expense of the industrious." Cicero
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Originally Posted by RWE
why is it that you don't hear of folks shooting a Ruger #1 (or a #3) for BPCR?

Are they lacking in performance?


Well...you asked so here goes!

As for Ruger #1s not being used in BPCR it probably stems from the fact that it has NO HISTORICAL background like the M1874 Sharps or Ballard, etc. and a whole helluva lot of guys in BPCR attach a significant portion of their love of BPCR to that aspect! The rifle is damn difficult to adapt to a tang sight, the barrels are usually way to light-weight as is the rifle. Many of the BPCR rifles today are cut with a chamber such that is designed for shooting paper patched bullets and I don't see that taking place at the Ruger factory whereas it can be requested from Shiloh Rifles at a telephone call! I had occasion to pick one up ONCE and put it to my shoulder and the ergonomics just wasn't there....FOR ME and I'm not a midget or lacking in physical stature! I know that the rifles are accurate, depending upon ones definition of that but as to how the Ruger #1 would perform with cast bullets....I can't say! This is as objective a reply as I can render regarding your question.

Personally...my own opinion is that the Ruger #1 is just PLAIN DAMN UGLY!

I'll stick with these:

[Linked Image]
Giving the Shiloh a workout! by Sharps45 2 7/8, on Flickr



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I hardly ever comment on one of these threads but I must defend my beloved Ruger #1's I have owned and shot/hunted with them for many years, they are very fine rifles. They are not in the same category as the Sharps, Ballards, Rolling Blocks etc. and were not meant to be. They were developed to bring back a classic single shot hunting rifle to the American public and I believe they have done that in a very fine fashion. They were not meant to be BPCR rifles and were not developed as such. The other rifles serve very well for that, and I own them too.

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Rich, I agree with everything you said. They are fine rifles in their place. Their popularity proves that in spades.


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Originally Posted by APDDSN0864
Originally Posted by RWE
Good stuff here guys.

Guess I should have made it clear that I'm not concerned with guns being ugly, nor with competition shooting.

Strictly a bucket list line item that I wanted a single shot to throw the plethora of lead I was bequeathed. My only caveat that it kill things that are within my sight at a reasonable distance.

Carry on.

RWE,
Being a lover of single shots for my entire, conscious, life, I have succumbed to Sharps fever. I had been suffering from a chronic, but mild, form of it transmitted via Crossfireoops and EvilTwin, but then I visited with sharpsguy about ten days ago. Now it truly is terminal. grin

If you want a work of art that will last you for the rest of your life, one that will please you with its performance and appearance, get a Sharps.

I had lusted after #1's for many, many years, but shooting a Sharps at long range with aperture sights, then barrel sights, I have turned my back on #1's. I know, it seems a fickle thing to do, but there is no turning back now. grin

Whether I ever shoot in competition or just hunt and plink, a Sharps is the way for me.

Ed


I'm swirling the drain too, Ed. Fortunately for my checking account (and Visa)the options are so plentiful that it is difficult to make a final decision on which one I want.

With the guidance of Bill and Jim, I hope to eventually have a sharps in my house too.


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Originally Posted by Rich
I hardly ever comment on one of these threads but I must defend my beloved Ruger #1's I have owned and shot/hunted with them for many years, they are very fine rifles. They are not in the same category as the Sharps, Ballards, Rolling Blocks etc. and were not meant to be. They were developed to bring back a classic single shot hunting rifle to the American public and I believe they have done that in a very fine fashion. They were not meant to be BPCR rifles and were not developed as such. The other rifles serve very well for that, and I own them too.


The Number 1 is a fine rifle and I think it fills the role you described very well. I hope that Ruger continues to manufacture them for many years to com.e.


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Originally Posted by CrimsonTide


I'm swirling the drain too, Ed. Fortunately for my checking account (and Visa)the options are so plentiful that it is difficult to make a final decision on which one I want.

With the guidance of Bill and Jim, I hope to eventually have a sharps in my house too.



I am looking to sell a number of guns to make it happen, but all I have been getting are lowball offers and I don't want to dump them, I'd like to get a fair price.

The economy is not allowing the disposable income I had a few years ago, so selling is the only way to my goal.

I have begun my collection of tools including moulds and handles, but it is a slow process.

The disease is still there, it's just taking longer to get the proper treatment, and whining about it doesn't help. grin


Ed



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BRENT AND SHARPSGUY: Ok gentlemen. I did not timely respond as I said I would. After the kids went home, I have had an " ox in the ditch." I have also misplaced my notes with chamber info on it for the ..40-65 Shiloh. I have no data on the heavy barrel Ruger No. 1. Forget it. I have decided to scope it and use smokeless and commercial bullets of whichever type it likes best. Weight, cast, jacketed, or even patched.

I posted my woes with the Shiloh on their site. With recommended papers, I have one of three problems. The patched bullet will not chamber, the bullet will chamber but usually cannot be unloaded without pulling the bullet, or the seating process will not hold the bullet. None of these is satisfactory for hunting.

Recommendation one was to get a Redding taper crimp die. Did that. No help. The next recommendation was to get a .40 S&W die set and use that die to crimp. That will work, but not well. It is not of sufficient diameter to work without a lot of force, resulting in a pretty firm crimp.

Honestly, I have left this project on the back burner for two years, maybe longer.

I have been using the bullet from a Canadian maker that builds an adjustable mold, courtesy Dean Becker out in the desert west. They seem to measure .399 and weigh about 340 and 375. Best I can tell, my barrel is spot on at .400/.408. Brass is Starline, powder (for now) is Goex FFG. I have tried card wads from waxed milk cartons, vegetable wads and no wads. That for sure is not an option as the powder always dumps if the bullet pulls. I have bought several papers. If it is thick enough,,it doesn't chamber or sticks when inserted. Loaded to seat properly, bullets fall out when handled, other than very carefully. I have not shot paper for accuracy. I don't have function whipped yet.

I have successfully used greasers from BACO, both 370 and 410. I could clean the loaded round enough to eliminate any grime attraction.

What I seem to need is a leade that is longer and perhaps a couple of thousandths larger. Mr. Mulhern mentioned special paper patch chambers. Maybe I need to call Shiloh.

APDDSN0864, Like you,,financials are not as good as they once were. I retired too young, seventeen years ago. Some investment with Enron and GM, took the cost of living away. good thing is we are still OK. I had a rifle on consignment for about three years asking $2000. Best offer I had was $1500. Since there was no financial need to sell, I picked the rifle up a couple of years ago. I sold it last week for $3500. So maybe things are getting better.

One option is to sell the Shiloh and start over with a ..45-70 cut for paper or re barrel. I have a potential buyer. Another is to work the chamber, but only if I can have it factory done or by someone that'll others tell me the craftsman knows his business. Or I can forget the nostalgia and shoot greasers. It isn't an historical buffalo hunt round anyway. One thing I have not mentioned, my brass is nickel plated. Could this add to the "springiness" of the brass? Understand that I am a raw rookie at this game., even if I am an old fart. Jack


"Do not blame Caesar, blame the people...who have...rejoiced in their loss of freedom....Blame the people who hail him when he speaks of the 'new, wonderful, good, society'...to mean ,..living fatly at the expense of the industrious." Cicero
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Jack, I'm sorry that I could not respond more quickly. I was at a match all weekend, roasting my brains out in the heat and humidity.

I'm sure that by now Bill has called, emailed, PMed and probably twitted you a dozen times, but I'll simply add that your stock Shiloh chamber will shoot paper patches just fine. Some chambers are a little trickier than others, but they can all be made to shoot well, if you spend the time (and sometimes money) to get the job done right. What is currently being called "the paper patch" chamber on the internet today is nothing magic. I have a rifle with that chamber and it shoots fine - but it is hardly the most accurate.

From your description of wads falling out, bullets not fitting in the brass and all the various crimps, etc, I think you have many dimensional issues that, if you get them right, will suddenly go away.

There are many ways to load hunting ammunition in that Shiloh and if you want to make it work I'd be happy to help, and we can start with some simple things like using known components (ie, wads of known dimensions and carefully measured bullets and paper).

I do not use nickeled brass so I can't tell you anything about springiness. However, if your bullets won't chamber, maybe the brass is too thick. Or maybe your bullets with paper added are too thick. But the bottom line, is that you should be able to easily chamber proper bullets from any of a several different recipes for loading. Figuring out where the problem lies simply requires sitting down with a set of calipers and seeing what you are working with.

Where do you want to start?

BTW, what vintage is your Shiloh? Does it say Farmington or Big Timber (with a "B" in the serial number)?


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Originally Posted by jt402
BRENT AND SHARPSGUY: Ok gentlemen. I did not timely respond as I said I would. After the kids went home, I have had an " ox in the ditch." I have also misplaced my notes with chamber info on it for the ..40-65 Shiloh. I have no data on the heavy barrel Ruger No. 1. Forget it. I have decided to scope it and use smokeless and commercial bullets of whichever type it likes best. Weight, cast, jacketed, or even patched.

I posted my woes with the Shiloh on their site. With recommended papers, I have one of three problems. The patched bullet will not chamber, the bullet will chamber but usually cannot be unloaded without pulling the bullet, or the seating process will not hold the bullet. None of these is satisfactory for hunting.

Recommendation one was to get a Redding taper crimp die. Did that. No help. The next recommendation was to get a .40 S&W die set and use that die to crimp. That will work, but not well. It is not of sufficient diameter to work without a lot of force, resulting in a pretty firm crimp.

Honestly, I have left this project on the back burner for two years, maybe longer.

I have been using the bullet from a Canadian maker that builds an adjustable mold, courtesy Dean Becker out in the desert west. They seem to measure .399 and weigh about 340 and 375. Best I can tell, my barrel is spot on at .400/.408. Brass is Starline, powder (for now) is Goex FFG. I have tried card wads from waxed milk cartons, vegetable wads and no wads. That for sure is not an option as the powder always dumps if the bullet pulls. I have bought several papers. If it is thick enough,,it doesn't chamber or sticks when inserted. Loaded to seat properly, bullets fall out when handled, other than very carefully. I have not shot paper for accuracy. I don't have function whipped yet.

I have successfully used greasers from BACO, both 370 and 410. I could clean the loaded round enough to eliminate any grime attraction.

What I seem to need is a leade that is longer and perhaps a couple of thousandths larger. Mr. Mulhern mentioned special paper patch chambers. Maybe I need to call Shiloh.

APDDSN0864, Like you,,financials are not as good as they once were. I retired too young, seventeen years ago. Some investment with Enron and GM, took the cost of living away. good thing is we are still OK. I had a rifle on consignment for about three years asking $2000. Best offer I had was $1500. Since there was no financial need to sell, I picked the rifle up a couple of years ago. I sold it last week for $3500. So maybe things are getting better.

One option is to sell the Shiloh and start over with a ..45-70 cut for paper or re barrel. I have a potential buyer. Another is to work the chamber, but only if I can have it factory done or by someone that'll others tell me the craftsman knows his business. Or I can forget the nostalgia and shoot greasers. It isn't an historical buffalo hunt round anyway. One thing I have not mentioned, my brass is nickel plated. Could this add to the "springiness" of the brass? Understand that I am a raw rookie at this game., even if I am an old fart. Jack


That .399 slug is to big to start with, if you must use that slug then get a thinner paper and seat the bullet deeper.
395 probably a bunch better diameter to go with.
Chamfer the inside of the case mouths.


the most expensive bullet there is isn't worth a plug nickel if it don't go where its supposed to.
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That dimension is WRONG. The bullets measure .on average .392 and wrap to .399. Should be perfect. More later today.jack


"Do not blame Caesar, blame the people...who have...rejoiced in their loss of freedom....Blame the people who hail him when he speaks of the 'new, wonderful, good, society'...to mean ,..living fatly at the expense of the industrious." Cicero
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Folks, bear with me, I halve just lost two long posts.

Equipment:
RCBS Shiloh specific .40-65 three die set.
Redding taper crimp die.
RCBS .40 S & W die set.
.392 hollow base bullet reducing to about .389 .570" from base. Wraps to .399, should be perfect.
Helix 100% cotton tracing paper, part #37101.
Also have some BACO blue paper-too thin.
BACO .40 template.
.30 Walters vegetable fiber wads.
Have tried milk carton wads.
Brass is nickel Starline .40-65.
I have formed brass from .45-70 with same results.
I received sixty rounds of PMC 270 grain factory ammo with the gun. This has .406 bullets and I suspect that was the reason the rifle was a lead mine when I got it. I could pull the bullets and use the primers and brass. Never shot any, as the bullets are undersized.

Rifle is about six years old and was made by the Bryans in Big Timber. The finish is perfect and the bore was cleaned to shine like a diamond in a goat's rear end. I bought it used to escape the wait, but it cleaned up to perfect. 30" heavy half. No add ons. Pistol grip, shotgun butt. Shoots about a foot high with a compressed load of Goex FFG, and 370 greasers, no problem, I can fix that.

Thick brass should be an advantage as it would grip the bullet better when taper crimped.

The paper, when wrapped as directed, extends past the .003 reduction, when wrapped to fold the excess into the hollow base. They look like the pictures say they should. I have never tried trimming the wrap to a narrower profile.

I have all distance unlimited calling. PM for or to give a number. I can't think of anything I have omitted.

Jack


"Do not blame Caesar, blame the people...who have...rejoiced in their loss of freedom....Blame the people who hail him when he speaks of the 'new, wonderful, good, society'...to mean ,..living fatly at the expense of the industrious." Cicero
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