Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire 1892 Winchester short rifle question

Gentlemen, I have what appears to be an 1892 Winchester Short Rifle in 32-20. Serial #903XXX shows manufacture in 1918, which means it can not be lettered. (i did try when I first got it) I say short rifle because the blue book shows the regular rifle as having a 24 inch barrel, with round or octagon barrel (mine is octagon), blue, tube mag, forend cap & cressent butt, which is what mine is. Barrel though measures 19 1/4 inch from the receiver to the end of the barrel. Blue book says a short rifle was available with special order barrels under 16 inches with 12 being the rarest. Thus my question? Is this a short rifle or just a regular rifle with special order barrel? Blue book says short rifles go from 2 to 8K, which is a substantial amount of money so answer could be important. So, who could I talk to, to find out what I really have? And who could appraise it as to finish, etc.? so I would have a good idea of how to price it? No doubt in my mind you boys know LOTS more about this than I do and would appreciate your help.

TM

It's not a short rifle. Just s non standard barrel length.


Ed

a picture is worth ...

Barrel length is measured from the bolt face to the end of the muzzle so I think you have about a 20" barrel. I don't know if it was a common barrel length or not, but the correct measurement is as if you dropped the measuring stick down the muzzle until it hit the firing pin hole. From there to the crown is the barrel length.

the 92 might be the best lever gun Winchester ever made.

Congratulations.

Curious why you say it is just a short barrel. A quick check online shows 3 rifles on Guns international, listed as short rifles with original 20 inch barrel. Merz in Minnesota lists over half a dozen with the same info. Not disputing you at all, as I know almost nothing about this. Just wondering why? Thanks.

Lauren, will try to get some pics in a couple days (family business next few) if you would be kind enough to post for me?

Brent, Thanks for the info on measuring. Just the type stuff I need.

Thanks!

Rifles having barrels that are 16" and longer are not "Short Barrel Rifles" which is a firearms classification, not just a description. There's a difference between a "Short Barrel Rifle" and a rifle with a short (or shorter than normal) barrel. As you noted, there is a premium for a "Short Barrel Rifle" as they had barrels of 16" or less, making them an NFA firearm that requires a tax stamp just like a machine gun.

I apologize for being clear as mud.

Ed

Travelingman, I'm not an expert, esp on the Winchester levers but I have shot a 92 of similar vintage and the same caliber at the Nationals the last two years. It is a friend's gun with a 24" barrel. These are very desirable (and the .32-20 is a very desirable caliber) but the 24" barrel commands a little more money than the shorter barrels and the longer barrels that were made special order are worth a little more - in my experience.

In pretty descent condition, which I'll say would be well used, but put away dry and oiled (ie. well worn, stains scratches, blueing worn and turned to plumb, some oil soakage and maybe a small crack or chip here and there but good to go functionally) - in that sort of condition, it is worth a bit north of $1k Maybe a fair bit north of $1k. The only way to really know is watch Gunbroker for a while and see at least a 1/2 dozen similar guns being sold. Don't look at just one sale, you need a handful and take the average. That is the only way I know to see what a vintage rifle is truly worth these days.

Brent

With deference to Ed, I would think short rifle - as I don't believe the carbine was offered in octagon barrel - however, I DON'T claim any expertise!

Mark

Skeeter Skelton had a M92 short rifle and wrote about it in the 1960's.

M92 rifles with 24 inch octagon barrels were listed by WRA as "Standard Sporting Rifles" Twenty inch octagon barreled M92's were referred to as "Short Rifles".
They are seen less often than sporting rifles or carbines

Round barreled 20" barreled M92s were usually referred to as carbines.

Short rifles combined the portability of a carbine and a little more forward weight for offhand shooting.

Winchester would take orders for special features on the basic lever action variation with respect to barrel weight, length, contour, magazine, etc so about anything is possible as a factory product.

This thread needs pics.

Ethan, VERY nice....

It was. Wish I still had it but I foolishly got rid of it to put the money on some other gun I had to have a couple or three years back. It was the smoothest lever I've thrown.

Ed, Thanks for the explanation. I am such a novice though that I am still confused by a later post:

M92 rifles with 24 inch octagon barrels were listed by WRA as "Standard Sporting Rifles" Twenty inch octagon barreled M92's were referred to as "Short Rifles".
They are seen less often than sporting rifles or carbines

Round barreled 20" barreled M92s were usually referred to as carbines.


So if I am reading this right (big chance I am not) mine would be a short rifle per the factory? But not one that qualifies for the premium for rifles with barrels of 16 inch or less? The thought that the factory called these Short Rifles is also bolstered by the fact that Winchester had a run in 2010 I think, of what the called "short rifles" that were 20 inches long. Again, not disputing or questioning anyone. Just trying to understand.

One other note, Carbines have a barrel band, versus the end cap on the rifles that appears to make them easy to ID.

Brent, Bought this for the wife to compete in SASS, as she had an original Colt Bisley from 1910 in 32-20. Quickly learned not to shoot that one, as it was worth too much. The rifle is tight as a drum but slick as snot. Shoots great too. Not sure I want to sell it but do want to know what it would be worth, so I can make a decision. It has great wood on it, barrel has a few small rust spots, dings, etc. but still a good bit of blue. Receiver looks like it was rubbed down with steel wool, as all color is gone and you can see the light scratches. :-( Still a great rifle though.

Wish I had the money to send it to Turnbull and have it totally restored but old, retired and it just costs too much.

Thanks guys, really great info. Will work on the pics when I get back next week.

A "Short Rifle" is totally different than a "Short barreled rifle". The first is a model sold by the manufacturer, the second is a classification put on rifles with barrels shorter than 16".

Don't see where the 2nd has anything to do with this conversation since yours has a 20" barrel.

We run into the same question on special order Savage 1899's occasionally, they had a Short Rifle model originally.

These old ones almost always look better to me with the character that age and honest use applies. I had three. Two were in 32/20 and one was in 38/40. I gave them to my sons one Christmas and I am not sorry I did. They have really enjoyed them and I wasn't at all sure they would. Those were slick rifles and it was amazing how well you could shoot them off hand. The only Winchester I have ever owned that I like better than a 92 is a 53 and I found one in 25/20 that is a keeper.

I agree with Mathsr about the refinishing thing. Never scrape away that history unless the gun is simply broken. I know I'd be shooting that Colt .32-20 Bisley too.

I have a think for Marlins. It is an acquired taste I guess, but my 93 in .38-55 is just about perfect for my purposes. A 92 Winchester in .32-20 or larger would be a good partner for it though.

Winchesters have been normally been more valuable than Marlins but in the last couple of years folks have stumbled on to the one or two advantages of the Marlins in some calibers and the prices have really taken off.

This one is from the 19teens and cost me around $900 a couple of years ago.

A true Winchester "Short Rifle" configuration in the early models have more value than the carbine or standard rifle if weighed on equal condition terms.

The fore end configuration and where, and how the fore end is attached to the barrel and magazine are the telling factors.

A true short rifle looks more like the standard 24" rifle with a shorter barrel. It won't have a barrel "strap ring", but a regular steel end cap, like the standard 24" rifle.

Most Winchesters I have seen that are represented as a short rifle are regular standard rifles cut off from the muzzle to be 20". You can tell the difference by measuring from the muzzle to where the magazine pins to the barrel. If the magazine is pinned only a couple inches from the muzzle, then it was a cut-off standard rifle. If the pin is 4" more or less from the muzzle, then chances are it is correct.

Authentic Short Rifles will have the standard rifle buttstock as well, and not the carbine stock.

Most were special order in the 92 Winchester, and a very few left the factory as a short rifle with a 16" barrel. They are extremely valuable.

OK, I do have some pictures now if anyone willing to put them up. Just pm me and I will send. NOTE: Just as I am not that knowledgeable on Winchesters, I am not the best on photography either. Good thing I am such a great lover or I would be totally useless! :-)