Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Handguns .38 Special snub vs. 9mm sub-compact

I just had some guy try to tell me how much better a Kahr sub compact 9mm is than a snub nosed .38 Special. First he tried to tell me the 9mm was "so much" more powerful. Then I explained when both are fired out of 3" barrels, expansion and penetration are pretty much the same. Then he said his Kahr holds 6 rounds, and I pointed out that Taurus makes a 6 shot snub, and there are always the Colts. Them he said its all about the reload time, but neither of us could think of an instance where a civilian was saved by a faster reload. I also pointed out my HKS speed loader is plenty fast. He was still convinced that his Kahr was more powerful and just "better". I'm happy he's confident in his choice, I think it's a good choice for a pocket gun. But a guy who knows how to effectively use his DA revolver isn't at any disadvantage.

I just switched from a Shield 9 to a 640-1, I wonder how he thinks the 9 stacks up to 357 magnums? Though 38+p's are what I'm carrying.

And I do like the 9mm.

I like 9 mm also, and I think his Kahr is a dandy little gun. But I certainly don't see any meaningful difference, alone a "big difference".
As for your 640, I think . 38 +P is the way to go in a snub. Just too much loss in velocity in .357 and then you add the flash, noise, and horrendous recoil.

Better projectiles for the 9mm, maybe, but they make a 38+P 135gr Gold Dot load designed for snubbies, so maybe not. I'd say it comes down to whichever one you shoot the best and feel competent with. I know I wish I hadn't traded my Colt Agent off, miss that gun. I could shoot the [bleep] out of it too.

If I were going out with a pocket full of cash, I'd probably get the Kahr, but I'd never feel less armed with a J fre or my Colt Cobra.

until the day comes, as it did for me a couple of days ago, when you are setting by some blm signs leading into the desert, and the signs say be aware of your surrounding, high illegal/drug trafficing area. And a guy running a ranch nearby had just told you that the area was under the firm control of the sinalola narco cartel. Al of a second that little revolver doesn't look so good anymore.

Like I said in another thread, from Hickok to Cirrilo, revolver men carried two. Sounds to me like the country you described is rifleman's territory anyway, like an 18in AR with a 1-4x scope, loaded with 77g SMK's

Hmmm, I have yet to have a revolver fail to feed or fire. Can't say that about an auto. There are 38 Special loads that are every bit as good by any reasonable measure in a short barreled pistol. To me it would come down to what you are good with and are comfortable with. Personally I will take a S&W Model 60.

Kevin, regarding your Cobra, shrouded barrel? Factory or aftermarket grips?

DMc

KG,

What velocity does a snub get in 38 especiale with 158gr bullets?

My 2.25" SP101 only gets 1050 fps with various factory 357 self defense loads with 158gr bullets. IIRC, my G26 gets 900-950 fps with a 147gr bonded Ranger. The 158gr and 147gr seem close enough in the grand scheme of things.

The difference for me, is that the 9mm is more accurate than the 357 SP101 (double action mode) and follow-up shots are much faster. The PM9 was also easier to shoot than any snub I've tried. A 38 would be more manageable but I thought velocities were more like 750-800 fps.

I'm quite comfortable with my 30 year old Charter Arms Undercover five-shooter.

Of course, revolver aficianados all practice one handed reloads, right? They're not impossible, and I practice them when I work with my own snubbies. Good luck doing it fast, speedloaders or not. That's just one example of how the manual of arms of a DA revolver is more complex and involved than that of the DAO auto. Not impossible to master, but a challenge under ideal circumstances and much more difficult under less than ideal circumstances.

The idea that a snub nose DA revolver is in any way simpler to manipulate than a DAO auto like a Kahr is unsound.

OK I'll answer that, what do you do when you DAO auto jams or fails to feed after the first shot??

IMHO if a reload is needed then it has all gone way south for either.

I am a bit curious how, one could do a one handed magazine replacement as well. Not sure what the reference to one handed reloads is all about? I have both autos and revolvers, and I always use two hands.

I would bet his little Kahr 9mm is not as powerfull as MY Snubnose....
It's a Charter Arms Bulldog in .44special

I own the little Kahr CM-9 Compact in 9mm & it's a great little BUG thats very accurate & has a great trigger. I really like it and shoot it well but I generally carry a S&W Bodyguard .38 Subby as my BUG when packing either a 1911 Commander or Glock 32 as my primary CCW. I feel equally comfortable with both my Kahr 9mm & S&W.38sp BodyGaurd, and
My Kahr CM-9 has NEVER jammed or malfunctioned. But I usually choose the Bodyguard because I know the .38 snubbie WILL NEVER jam or stovepipe

I usually don't pack my little Charter Bulldog .44 spec unless I'm hunting arrowheads at the Ranch. It works great on rattlesnakes with the CCI .44 spec. shot shell Snake loads.
And it's a little too large to fit in my front pocket of my Wranglers for a BUG. When I'm carrying the .44sp at the Ranch, I usually just cram it in the back pocket of my blue jeans, since I don't own a holster that fits my Bulldog.

I used to run a light weight snubby, 2 issues I had the bullets would often move under recoil, yeah some brands wouldn't but it was always in the back of my mind that it could be an issue. next was I couldn't hit worth a crap with it. even with a very nice 3# single action trigger pull, very very inaccurate for me. The kahr is alot more accurate gun for me. also I will take 9mm+p from a 3" barrel all day long over 38 specialy from a 2" barrel. the 38 isn't going to keep up with the 9 with that extra inch of barrel. also compared to say a keltec pf 9 which is pimping 8 rounds its quite a bit better than the 5 most j frames hold. the only thing I like snubbys for is being able to hold it pointed at someone through a coat pocket and actually fire the gun if needed. this allows you to protect yourself if needed but avoid brandishing charges and legal issues if the situation deescalates, and the people say he was waving a gun around at us.

the snubby is simply outclassed by current offerings.

Well it is a choice, you can trust your life to your choice and I will trust mine to what I choose. I will not in any way feel "outclassed" My "snubbie" is a 3" Model 60 that will handle 357 Magnums. Don't think a 9+p would have any advantage. It does have one disadvantage, I looked everywhere and could not find a single piece of black plastic.

Heck, at night I might even have a tactical advantage. If I close my eyes right as I pull the trigger the muzzle flash will blind them...

What's a 9mm subcompact? I'm not sure there is such a thing unless it's the worthless Kel Tec. I certainly wouldn't call a Shield or a Kahr a subcompact.

I don't see much difference. In theory, the 38 Special case hold more and should be capable of higher velocities. Due to many factors, you simply never see this with the 9 outshining it almost always.

As to the size, I don't see much difference. I've always thought autos were more comfortable, but like the Charter Off Duty that was mentioned, there are some pretty small .38's.

I'd take a Colt Magnum Carry over either if power is needed and a M&P Compact if firepower is.