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Originally Posted by Rock Chuck
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�A person once asked me, in a provocative manner, if I approved of homosexuality,� he told Father Spadaro. �I replied with another question: �Tell me: when God looks at a gay person, does he endorse the existence of this person with love, or reject and condemn this person?� We must always consider the person.�

Consider Jesus and the woman caught in adultery. Her sin was the same as a homosexual's yet Jesus forgave her. Likewise, he will forgive the homosexual. However, Jesus also said 'Go, and sin no more'. His forgiveness came with repentance. The homosexuals are demanding that Jesus allow them to continue in their sin, unlike the adulteress. The Bible makes it very clear that their acts are sin but they won't acknowledge that they're sinning. They call it normal.
Yes, Jesus loves them and he will gladly forgive them but they MUST acknowledge that they're sinning and repent.


Well said! The pope needs to clearly point this out and he hasn't.


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Originally Posted by pira114
Originally Posted by Rock Chuck
From the article:
Quote
�A person once asked me, in a provocative manner, if I approved of homosexuality,� he told Father Spadaro. �I replied with another question: �Tell me: when God looks at a gay person, does he endorse the existence of this person with love, or reject and condemn this person?� We must always consider the person.�

Consider Jesus and the woman caught in adultery. Her sin was the same as a homosexual's yet Jesus forgave her. Likewise, he will forgive the homosexual. However, Jesus also said 'Go, and sin no more'. His forgiveness came with repentance. The homosexuals are demanding that Jesus allow them to continue in their sin, unlike the adulteress. The Bible makes it very clear that their acts are sin but they won't acknowledge that they're sinning. They call it normal.
Yes, Jesus loves them and he will gladly forgive them but they MUST acknowledge that they're sinning and repent.



Exactly right. It's just Catholics have been becoming increasingly judgmental (as if we weren't before right?) and I think the Pope is just trying to remind people that's not for us.


Calling sin sin is NOT being judgmental at all!


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Dunno . . be interesting to see where this goes.

The Christian gospel is not [primarily] about helping the poor, inclusiveness, or any other such stuff . . the Christian gospel is about sin and the forgiveness of sin. Nor does it matter one whit what Roman Catholic dogma says officially . . perception is reality. If the laity perceives the Roman denomination going soft on "sin," they will increasingly defect to Orthodoxy and conservative Protestantism.

Time will tell . .

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I expect that a lot of Northeastern and West Coast Catholics will be cool with welcoming the UN-repentent queers and baby killers as new members.

But they'll draw the line at Baptists. grin


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He cannot be a man of the times. He must be a man of Christ.
I would say he's certainly not a man of the times. These are times of polarization arising out of hatred. Christ was a man of Love and acceptance: not in accepting of sin, but of the person. His anger was directed at pharisee's who placed themselves far above the downtrodden and sinner, condemming them.

I was not in agreement with the Pope over his statements regarding salvation, but am now believing that I may not fully understand his perspective. He may well be a great man indeed, if he survives.


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Originally Posted by Olaf
Dunno . . be interesting to see where this goes.

The Christian gospel is not [primarily] about helping the poor, inclusiveness, or any other such stuff . . the Christian gospel is about sin and the forgiveness of sin. Nor does it matter one whit what Roman Catholic dogma says officially . . perception is reality. If the laity perceives the Roman denomination going soft on "sin," they will increasingly defect to Orthodoxy and conservative Protestantism.

Time will tell . .

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We Baptists are not really concerned with what our RC friends are doing, re doctrine.


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Originally Posted by JohnMoses
Please name any preceeding Pope that read through a book of sins during his reign.
Hah! What a joke! Popes before Vatican II constantly promulgated bulls condemning the degradation into sin of the society of their times, specifically stating the sins they were referring to, and stating in no uncertain terms the fate of sinners who die unrepentant and unregenerate. This was in imitation of Jesus during his ministry, the very thing that led to his crucifixion. That's what popes are for. The fact that they no longer do this is pretty clear evidence something is very wrong.

"You serpents, you generation of vipers, how can you escape the judgment of hell?" Words of Jesus regarding the Pharisees. Matt. XXIII, 33. Was Jesus being unkind, or was he being love itself when he said that? Was he giving bad example of a judgmental attitude, or good example for the future shepherds of his flock?

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In my parish, and every parish I've ever been in, I've never heard anything hateful towards homosexuality, abortion, non-martial sex, etc. That doesn't mean that these behaviors aren't acknowledged to be sinful, just that it's exceedingly rare for them to come up as topics in mass. It seems to me that the obsession is all on the side of the anti-Catholic haters, who choose only to pay attention to that which validates their hatred.

Even the people who are pleased by what they hear from Francis seem to be even more pleased by their hope that traditional Catholics might now somehow suffer.

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Originally Posted by J4Me
In my parish, and every parish I've ever been in, I've never heard anything hateful towards homosexuality, abortion, non-martial sex, etc.
Making clear that sin is sin is not hate. It's love. When society at large is constantly sending out the message that sin is not sin, it's the job of the pope to rail against said message from the rooftops as loudly and forcefully as he's able.

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Originally Posted by Mannlicher
We Baptists are not really concerned with what our RC friends are doing, re doctrine.


I'm a born-again Southern Baptist as well and I agree. The pope is a man and is fallible just like all other men.

Unfortunately, I believe most Catholics are more caught up in the RC and the "pope" than they are at discerning the true word of God. Please don't take offense as I believe there are many good and godly catholics; however, like any other church (including Baptist) not all members are truly born-again.

For the record, I consider everyone (Catholics, Baptist, Methodist, etc.) who is TRULY born-again to be my brother in Christ.

Last edited by Dixie_Rebel; 09/20/13.

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As I read down this first page I notice folks defending the Pope the way Democrats defend the president. Fact make no nevermind to them.


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No dog in this, but the interview was over 12,000 words and the leftist press picked what it wanted.

Most folks believe that Francis is a fine, gifted man who has a thankless, almost impossible message to deliver here on earth.

Personally, I believe it is shortsighted to make judgements based on the media and it's slanted view.

Yes, I have read the interview and Francis came across as a holy and reasonable man. Of course, many do not want to hear his message ... and that's OK ... but in that case, only the ignorant would comment.




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Originally Posted by Dixie_Rebel
Originally Posted by Mannlicher
We Baptists are not really concerned with what our RC friends are doing, re doctrine.


I'm a born-again Southern Baptist as well and I agree. The pope is a man and is fallible just like all other men.

Unfortunately, I believe most Catholics are more caught up in the RC and the "pope" than they are at discerning the true word of God. Please don't take offense as I believe there are many good and godly catholics; however, like any other church (including Baptist) not all members are truly born-again.

For the record, I consider everyone (Catholics, Baptist, Methodist, etc.) who is TRULY born-again to be my brother in Christ.


I don't need the pope, I don't need a cardinal, I don't need a priest to have a personal relationship with God. Matter of fact that would prevent me from having a personal relationship with my God. God does not command us to have a brokered relationship with Him. "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved" says a lot. Confessing sins to another human being is futile. None of the officers of the Catholic church have any more sway with God than do I or any other believer and it is detrimental to a personal relationship with God to believe they do. The officers of the Catholic church cannot forgive sin.

Romans 10
8But what does it say? �The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart,� that is, the message concerning faith that we proclaim: 9If you declare with your mouth, �Jesus is Lord,� and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved. 11As Scripture says, �Anyone who believes in him will never be put to shame.�e 12For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile�the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, 13for, �Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.�

I do not say these things in a hateful manner. Spirituality is truly an individual experience. However to place such faith as is placed on the pope's ability to define what is acceptable or unacceptable in the worship of our God or in the obedience of Jesus' teachings is misplaced.



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Originally Posted by curdog4570
I expect that a lot of Northeastern and West Coast Catholics will be cool with welcoming the UN-repentent queers and baby killers as new members.

But they'll draw the line at Baptists. grin


Pelosi seems to.


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Originally Posted by Steelhead
The world would be SO much a better place without 'Christians'

It's easy to see how a fella could come to feel that way. Some 'Christians' are the biggest detriment to Christianity that there is. The Savior hung out with the worst of the worse, the lowest of the low. And He didn't abandon them. We are told to accept one another just as He accepted us. And we are told that everyone would know who His followers are by the love that they have for others.


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the [bleep] and Sunni's are about to fight a civil war within Islam. the Christians had their civil war between protestants and catholics about 500 years ago.

Christianity is a full 500 years ahead of islam, or so it appears.


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