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I *think* I'm finally down to these scopes after much research. Although the thought of a Vortex Viper 4-16 PST still occasionally crosses my mind.

This is going a-top a Cooper 280AI which I intend to be a longish range rig; although I don't really ever intend to go past 500y.

I have decided on target / exposed turrets rather than a ballistic reticle. Although I expect I will have the need to hold-over for wind.

My guess is that either the Zeiss or the Swaro Z3 should do me fine and both are about the same price. The turrets on the Zeiss seem more hefty and I like the fact that it has parallax adjustment.

Has any one compared these three scopes side by side?

While I could technically afford the Z5 eventually, I'm not sure if it really is worth the money given I don't have a pair of binoculars yet! I gasp at spending $1000 for binoculars but for some reason I don't at spending that on a scope even though binoculars are likely to be used far more.

Right now I am leaning towards the Zeiss. The biggest downside I see of it is that it does not have any hold points for windage.




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The biggest downside I see of it is that it does not have any hold points for windage.



4oz heavier too, if that matters.

Z3 w/BT has a zero stop. Not sure about the HD5.


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canoe, you said one thing I really agree with. Spend more $$$ on binoculars, then the scope. A 3.5-10x40 VX3 CDS is a killer hunting scope for $500.


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I want more magnification than 10x for this rig - not for hunting but for the range. Reality is any scope of mine will see 99% of time on the range and I much prefer more magnification there.

I have a VX3 6-20x and for some reason they don't do much for me. The Zeiss conquest I have for example is fantastic! I think it is the constant eye relief and is it ever bright!

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Zeiss makes one heck of a scope. I have a swaro z3 on the way, 4-12x50. Should be here tomorrow or sat. The swaro is lighter if that matters. You're not gonna make a bad choice there with any of those 3 you mentioned. Try and see if you can handle any at the local shops, then you'll know for sure what you want.

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Z-5 with ballistic Turret, Nikon Monarch 5, or if you can find them, the Nikon ATB 8X42. I have both, both are GREAT. Although I gave my Daughter the Nikons and I bought a pair of Leupolds new McKinnley 10X42 binos. I wanted more power for long range stand hunting and they have great eye relief for my stupid glasses.

Just my 2cents. I'm kinda in JG Raiders camp. I tell everyone to get the BEST you can afford and then buy a little better. You will only cry once. It's like buying a top line stereo, get great compnents and even GREATER speakers, same applie tp optics.

I'm in your camp with the 280AI

Look forward to seeing what you end up with.

PS, I bought my rifle (Sako 85) and ZS BT from Europtics and the Bino's from Cameralandny. Both great people to deal with.

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I have a z5 and hd5 zeiss, had a 4x12 z3. All great scopes and don't think you'll be disappointed with any of them. I only sold the z3 to replace with the 5-25 z5.

I think the z5 is alittle sharper than the hd5 but very marginal. Both have track perfectly so far. The one thing I like better with the hd5 is the crosshairs are heavier and can see them better late in the day.
If 12 x is enough for you then I would go with the z3, if I wanted more magnification I would probably buy the zeiss and put the extra money on binos.


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NMSShooter, what binos do you run if you don't mind me asking. I don't have a pair yet and am currently trying to decide on a pair. Curious what other guys who run the scopes I'm looking at are using for binos.

Also, have any of you compared the Vortex Viper PST 4-16x to the above scopes?

After doing some more digging into it, it seems the -ve of the HD5 is it does not have any holdover marks for wind. The down side of the Z3 is it does not have adjustable parallax. Z5 has all of the above.

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Just ordered the H5 from Cameraland as they are having a big Zeiss sale today!Might give them a buzz as it was close too $150 cheaper than other places.

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Originally Posted by canoetrpr


Also, have any of you compared the Vortex Viper PST 4-16x to the above scopes?




Yes. They break. Glass is not in the same class. Fans will pontificate on Vortex's customer service.

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Originally Posted by MAKAIRA
Just ordered the H5 from Cameraland as they are having a big Zeiss sale today!Might give them a buzz as it was close too $150 cheaper than other places.


I WISH we could buy our scopes from the USA! We can purchase binoculars but not scopes as there are export restrictions. Between our two countries I wish we could work out free trade a bit better.

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Originally Posted by MAKAIRA
Just ordered the H5 from Cameraland as they are having a big Zeiss sale today!Might give them a buzz as it was close too $150 cheaper than other places.

I did the same thing on a demo. The price was too good to turn down.

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I would spend the money on a pair of binoculars before the expensive scope. I would also get a Ballistic reticle in a good scope and leave the knobs and dials for varminting...


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Originally Posted by shrapnel
I would also get a Ballistic reticle in a good scope and leave the knobs and dials for varminting...


I've gone back and forth a few times wrt a reticle vs. turrets. I worry a bit that I don't really like a cluttered view of the reticle for ballistic reticles; also isn't it a bit weird to have your point of aim float into space if you are holding over for wind?

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Originally Posted by canoetrpr
Originally Posted by shrapnel
I would also get a Ballistic reticle in a good scope and leave the knobs and dials for varminting...


I've gone back and forth a few times wrt a reticle vs. turrets. I worry a bit that I don't really like a cluttered view of the reticle for ballistic reticles; also isn't it a bit weird to have your point of aim float into space if you are holding over for wind?


Swarovski BRX reticles and Leupold Boone and Crockett and Varmint reticles, all have stadia wires to compensate for wind at the relative distances. Doping wind and using a ballistic reticle is always better than using a turret and forgetting to re-set it or adjust it for a distance and forget what your settings are...


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I have the 4-12x50BT and 3.5-18x44BT as well as several 4.5-14x44 Conquest. For me, it's much easier to range and spin the BT to the proper setting vs looking at a cheat sheet for MOA dope. Now, a ballistic dial on the Zeiss would even the field. It would come down to which weight and how much $ I wanted to spend when all 3 are equiped with BTs.

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Reloader7RM, so it is the 4-12x Z3 your have and the Z5?

To be honest, I'm really not going to know whether I prefer the BT or a ballistic reticle until I use both. I'm new to all of this so I might just have to pick one and expect to make a few choices that don't work for me along the way. Always helpful if I can find lightly used stuff so I don't lose (much) money along the way.


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Yep, Z3 and Z5.

You'll have to use both types of rets to form an opinion. Ballistic rets for me are too busy, I like the simplicity of a single POA.

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Originally Posted by shrapnel
Originally Posted by canoetrpr
Originally Posted by shrapnel
I would also get a Ballistic reticle in a good scope and leave the knobs and dials for varminting...


I've gone back and forth a few times wrt a reticle vs. turrets. I worry a bit that I don't really like a cluttered view of the reticle for ballistic reticles; also isn't it a bit weird to have your point of aim float into space if you are holding over for wind?


Swarovski BRX reticles and Leupold Boone and Crockett and Varmint reticles, all have stadia wires to compensate for wind at the relative distances. Doping wind and using a ballistic reticle is always better than using a turret and forgetting to re-set it or adjust it for a distance and forget what your settings are...

I agree. The scope I purchased has the Rapid-Z 800 reticle, which I find is perfectly matched to the fast 300 magnums I mostly shoot.
i will not fart around with turrets on a hunting scope.

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That settles it. Sounds like I need to call Cooper and ask them to make me two rifles, then go out and buy two identical scopes, one with turrets and one with a ballistic reticle.

Then I will know what is best for me :-)

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