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Joined: Mar 2004
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OK, I won't.... smile

BUT, the OP here specified MAUSER actions and ANY Mod. 70 is only a "Mauser" by courtesy.

They are good, but, not REAL CRF, and a real Mauser, such as the FNs, Brnos or CZs mentioned ARE CRF and are, all in all, better actions.

Note: I own many specimens of ALL of the above, my opinions are based on fact from experience, not merely on subjective bias.

So,with cost as a factor and preferring the "flattops" approach to scope mounting, done on my rifles so equipped with Talleys, mostly, I still think that a CZ-550 is the best option.

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since i don't know kutenay could you please explain how a m70 classic is not a crf design?


The way life should be.
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I think you will find Kute misspoke in that he was referring to the wee niceties the 70 lacks, such as the under-cut that the foot of the extractor rides in that has a bevelled foot to stop the extractor riding up over the cartridge rim, and the small lip at the bottom of the left lugs that the ejector rides through, that blocks gas...and the minor point that the two firearms have a different breaching system.

Don't get me wrong, if someone was silly enough to hand me an early 70 then I would be gone before he dropped his hand, but I definitely prefer the Brno 21 and 47.

Seriously, WHY didn't SOMEONE think to put dovetails on the top of the m70 receiver?

Last edited by JSTUART; 10/21/13. Reason: I cannot spell for sh!t...apparently.

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Harruuummmmpphhh!!!!!

NO, I did NOT speak in error, I very specifically stated that the Model 70s are NOT ...REAL... CRF, which is the factual truth and the Brnos, etc, ARE, as they HAVE all of the original Mauser design parts and interacting adjustments.

Since, the bits and pieces concerned here are mentioned above, I won't belabour the point but, the characteristic function of a "Patterne 98" Mauser and a P-64, Classic or the latest FN Mod. 70s ARE different and the latter CAN bobble due to lacking true Mauser features.

The 70s, are "CRF", as we usually think of it and some are fine rifles, I have 14 of them and have had 45 to date. However, there are so many totally different major parts in a Mod. 70 as compared with the superb Mauser 98 design, that they are NOT at all the same action, although the 70 seems to be an adaptation and descendant of the Mauser.

The bolt lock, bolt release lock, breeching, ejector (Newton), trigger, tang design and safety are ALL "non" Mauser, in design and most of these are NOT as reliable as the originals, so, I do not regard any Mod. 70 as a "Mauser", but merely as a "mauser type", as in double opposed front locking lugs, long spring extractor and staggered box magazine features being of Mauser origin.

Now, AS these come from the FACTORY and for HUNTING, I PREFER a good P-64-70 to the majority of the superb Brno 21/22 rifles, for several reasons. I prefer the ZG to any, IF, that is the ONLY design you will be using and, for most people, today, I consider the Mod. 70s to be THE way to go....but, once you get into customizing, then, the Brnos are unbeatable, IMHO.

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Originally Posted by kutenay
IMHO.


Kute, your word is always good for me.


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No doubt there are differences between a Mauser 98 design and a Model 70,too nmerous to mention and not sure I even know them all. frown

Everytime I look at a real Mauser I notice something different,like the small lip on the front of the bolt face that serves a guide for the cartridge feeding into the chamber...there are others and I think they stack up to make the Mauser 98 a "better",and more rugged machine...and this is not meant to dump on the Model 70 at all. It's just a bit different.

We tend to tink of a CRF as any system with an external,non-rotating extractor that grabs the case as it pops up from the magazine,and standing ejector as a "CRF", but I think this true only up to a point.

IMHO there is one small point about "true" CRF's that is seldom mentioned...that is that the magazine box must be the exact and precise length for the cartridge for which it is chambered.Another characteristic of CRF is that the bolt CANNOT pick up another round from the magazine UNLESS the bolt is withdrawn far enough to hit the ejector and eject it out of the loading port. This characteristic is designed to prevent the infamous "double feed" in the event of a short stroke of the bolt by the operator.This is supposed to be one of the major advantages of a true CRF...but it's compromised if everything is not 100% in sync.

If you, for example,barrel a Mauser with a 30/06 box for a 308 Winchester,you no longer have a true "CRF", because those 308 cases are too short and swim around in the mag box. It would be possible to short stroke the bolt, the fired case would not eject, but the bolt could still pick up the next case in the magazine and strip it forward before the fired case hits the standing ejector and throw it out.

In the end a true Mauser is a CRF "system" characterized by more that just the extractor and there are good reasons of design that it is said that,in a manually operated bolt action,the further you move from an original Maser 98, the worse things get.


Hey, I didn't say it...........somebody else did! Go yell at them! smile

Last edited by BobinNH; 10/21/13.



The 280 Remington is overbore.

The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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ps, Bluefish latched on to "CRF" not "Mauser".


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"CRF system" as opposed to "CRF" is a very valid point, and there is nothing that beats the Mauser system when used within it's design parameters.

And besides...I just like them.


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If I were buying a new rifle in 375 Caliber I'd find one in .375 H&H. I like the Ruger case not so much for the rifles it is chambered for but for the rifles I CAN chamber for it. Truth is, any rifle chambered for a short magnum can be readily converted to the new Ruger cartridges.

Only thing about most H&H chambered rifles is that they are too heavy as supplied. The .375 Ruger was introduced in a lighter more compact package which I applaud. However, I just didn't care for the rifle that much.

The first .375 Ruger I built was built on an H&R which used a Zastava action (Mk X). It was a 7mm Rem Mag but did require alteration of the feed rails due to the wider shoulder to feed properly.

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Originally Posted by Mauser98
My .375 Ruger was built on a JC Higgins M50 action by Bill Leeper. The donor rifle was originally a .270 Win so there was a fair amount of metal work to be done on the action. We kept the factory bottom metal and safety put replaced the trigger with a Timney.

I ended up with a rifle that feeds and functions as smoothly and reliably as my FN .35 Whelen - and that is saying a lot!

So in my opinion, the Ruger/Mauser combination is almost a perfect match as long as one gets the right gunsmith to dothe work.

I coudn't resist.
[Linked Image]


That rifle looks so damn nice that I'd almost be tempted to send my Model 50 to Mr. Leeper for the exact same rifle. But, alas, the wallet is empty. Very very nice classy rifle!!!!

IC B3

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