Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Nosler vs. Cooper vs. Kimber

MD, IIRC, Cooper used to have a 1/2 MOA guarantee on their single shot, varmint type rigs, but I don't know if that is still true or carries over to their big game, repeater styles? Anywho, all the ones I've seen or shot (probably 5 or 6 I'd guess) all shot right around 1/2-3/4 MOA pretty much all the time. Again, I may not be correct on any of that guarantee stuff

starsky,

I just checked the Cooper website (which I should have done in the first place) and they still have the 1/2" guarantee, apparently for all their rifles. They don't specific ammo, so I would guess that means with handloads.

Nosler's accuracy guarantee is that with certain loads of their factory ammunition, non-magnums will shoot 3/4" and magnums under an inch. Of course, they'd probably shoot even better with handloads, and the two I've handloaded for have.

I have owned a couple Coopers, and I am sure their warranty specifies handloads for the accuracy guarantee.

I applaud you for being able to find anything on their website. To me it is a disaster.

The little target that comes with a Cooper tells you what bullet and what powder but not how much. I have two Coopers and they will both shoot better than the target shows.

This!

Would love to know what each stock style looks like without having to "build" one in each style, only to see an avatar sized pic.

Sheels locally seems to sell them quite a bit. Could like something classic in 257 Bob I guess.

+1 teal

In the past (when I bought mine) it was pretty usable. Not the best, but usable.

You could see the styles and all of the specifications.

I don't know how to find that info now.

I've had 7 kimbers and 7 coopers all of them shot very well, the coopers not being as picky. I like both, no experience with noslers but kimber and cooper fill different tasks for me. I carry the kimbers and shoot the coopers. My p-dog rifles are coopers and will shoot .1's all of the time 5 shot groups. the kimbers all have shot less than 1" groups . Light and fast goes to kimber, accurate and beautiful goes to cooper. YVMV. My cooper classic in 257R M54 the first one in that cartridge they built, weighes 8# even with a 2.5x8 leupold and talley 1 pc. mts. and rings, shoots less than .5 groups.and is beautiful.

Georgie Boiy,

FYI

Formidilosus is a trained sniper. Doubt he's envious of your skill.

But the pic is very, very impressive.
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To the OP-

More likely of avoiding a dog if you go Cooper/Nosler.

Both have a solid reputations for reliability/accuracy and come with a guarantee.

I've shot all 3 and the stock on the Nosler felt like it rode too high on the shoulder, probably would have been fine if I wasn't on a bench. Just my experience.

The Cooper has a 3 lug bolt and has a shorter throw which can help with scope mounting, but it comes at the price of a stiffer initial lift, but it's smooth. Barrels are provided by Wilson.

The Nosler action is basically a copy of the Howa, has 2 lugs and is smooth as well. Barrels are provided by Pac-Nor. It's cerakoted and uses micro-slick coating on moving parts, not sure how well that works though.

For me, it would come down to which stock fit me the best.

If you give Cooper a call they will fill you in on all the specifics of the load they used to shoot the target that came with the rifle.

In reference to the OP, I can not speak to the Nolser or Kimber rifles, but do own a Cooper Montana Varminter 243. If I could afford it EVERY rifle in my safe would be a Cooper. They are that good. One heck of a lot of gun for the money.

-Mike-

Are all three at the same price point?

Coopers are more new but less used. The secret is to catch the right one on close out. The Model 56 Magnum length never seems to go on sale.

Coopers from personal experience are super accurate, handier than they look, and are pretty durable. Their one weakness is that they are tight chambered. You have to make that action sing and if the load is a bit hot they are harder to cycle. This is fine for 93% of hunting but I would hate to be jammed up on a charging grizzly.

Kimbers are far better than what people claim when they are rebedded. There is some dumb yokko Obama supporter working on the line that does about 1/3 of them with bedding that is not even. The other 2/3s on the line are fine. What happens with the 1/3 is that the owner tries to fix said bedding problems that result in mediocre accuracy and also fail to pinch the fore end forward during shooting. You have to do this with Weatherby MVs to get them to group nice as well. They are great in weather and people who KISS and simply bed them and get them going do great. Those that try to find the right load but do not re-bed them and torque them evenly develop a deep seated hatred that borders on rabies. Kimbers are great rifles for the money. I have seen several that had perfect bedding, crowns and triggers but they seem always to escape me and I won't buy one of those horrific poorly torqued ones. There seems to be less of the poorly torqued ones and strangely the poorly torqued ones seem to mainly to be montanas.

Noslers are quite the rifle. More than what appears at first glance. People tend to forget that Bill Wiseman built the first Howa, Vanguard action. It is Bill Wiseman's action built in the US. It is blueprinted for consistency and concentricity. They match it properly to a PacNor match barrel. They then either bed it in a BC or one of Melvin's custom stocks. It has a Timney trigger and then is cerracoted. With that it is easy to see that it would get less than 3/4 moa.

Also not mentioned are the Weatherby Back Country Vanguard. It is a RC range controlled barreled action selected for higher tolerances and accuracy that is pillar bedded, with Weatherby's stage 2 trigger and then it is cerracoted as well. It comes with a BC aramid fibermark stock. It is not just a S2 Vanguard. It is set up to be quite the rifle.

The Sako 85 Finnlight is also quite the rifle with a 5 shot 1 moa accuracy standard. It has a bit of a weird stock but its shaped well. The finnlight has a good barrel with a decent crown and a good trigger. They are fitted well with no gaps or irregularities. They throw empties at weird angles and that is the down point on them. They are also expensive with Euro spiking in price on exchanges.

Just some stuff to add.

Sincerely,
Thomas

k68 . . . Can you please clarify this for me?

Thomas,

Like a lot of people on the Campfire (which of course includes several others who have posted her) you apparently responded to the header of this thread, and didn't read the original post. Here's its first sentence: "I'm thinning out the gun case and adding a few NICE WOOD STOCKED RIFLES."

The emphasis is mine, since so many people either never read it, or failed to notice. This disqualifies several of the rifles people have suggested, and makes your comments on the synthetic stocks Nosler uses on most of their rifles irrelevant.

"Coopers are more new but less used."

I can't agree with this statement as nice, used Coopers around here sell for almost as much as new. And they do sell.

Start with this then.... JOC BACO Model 70 Tribute


Then go with this BACO Model 70 Fwt 30/06 Deluxe.


Whelenaway...
When you shoot whippy light or flyweight rifles if you pinch the forestock when you shoot or put some forward pressure while you are firm on the buttstock it is more accurate. You don't pinch like when you milk a cow's udder but you will find that if you do this groups with punchers like 300 Roys or kimbers even tikkas start being more manageable.

A forum member who is a right nice fellow was shooting a problem child kimber in fact the "freaking Poster Child" problem kimber montana 270 WSM from a bench and couldn't get it to group worth beans. He was putting absolutely no forward pressure on the foreend and the rifle was recoiling up to the left and to the right and it patterned like a scatter gun. I swear he was about ready to smash the rifle against a bench.

My cooper 52 was on the bench next to him and I got a 1.5 inch group at 330 yards at the end of the range. I didn't put any pressure on that fore end because the cooper is a front heavy gun that recoils back consistently the same each time. But if I am shooting my fwt 30/06 or my weatherby 300 Roy Mark V then I better hold the front if I want it to group.

Sincerely,
Thomas

So no one can answer my simple question? Assuming new, do they each run about the same cost? Am I paying a grand or more for 1/4"? If they do not, used, usually there is a reason, sponsored hunts aside of course.

My Model 52 30/06 was right at a grand new. SW was about ready to close and they had some incredible deals. The price on them is about 2K and I haven't seen them at a SW since.

The limited 2008 Baco 70 Deluxe was right at 800. You can still get them for that. The JOC tribute was 1700 and I had to order it at LGS but it was worth it. You can't tell how Winchester hand-honed the action but anybody with one will tell you that they are under money. Only thing bad about them is the cheesy floorplate.

SuperAmerica Kimbers are about 2 K.

Nosler Custom rifles with wood are right around 4 K.

A Cooper with french wood upgrade runs around 2K.

Before people start throwing rocks. Have you ever looked at what a custom maker charges to custom stock a rifle? Then the value is pretty obvious.

Lastly the deal right now is on the remainder Cabelas higrades. They are running about the same price as Winchester Model 70 Supergrades right now for older 300 Wins and 270s. They are a heck of a deal right now.

The new for 2014 Sako 85 Finnbear with wood that is a recreation of the L61 is about 2200 and that rifle would be a really nice gun as well.

Thomas,

A beautiful piece of wood on your JOC Tribute...MUCH better than the dark POS on my Custom Tribute...I have seen several Tributes with wood similar to yours which reinforced my decision to forego ANY new Winchesters, going forward....

Had a similar experience years ago with a custom ordered Cooper with exhibition Claro that severely disappointed. Has kept me away from their stuff ever since....

Like the old saying about fool me once, etc.....

Sorry, a bit OT....

kaboku68,

I don't know where you're getting your price information, but the Nosler website lists the Legacy (high-grade walnut) rifle at $2695. A Cooper with good wood will run at least that.

FWIW, I'm not a gun writer, or even better than average shooter, I have a Nosler Model 48, and I can say it easily meets their accuracy claims- with multiple loads and their customer service is excellent in my experience. It is one of their earlier synthetic stocked guns with a stainless Pac Nor barrel.

No dog in this fight - but I am more than satisfied with my Nosler 48.