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Originally Posted by tipmover
You guy's seeing the big lake freezing up yet? I'm itching to start popping some 10" holes in it grin


You just simmer down!! LOL



I won't be wronged. I won't be insulted. I won't be laid a-hand on. I don't do these things to other people, and I require the same from them.


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Nice post, FD. I can tell you all about eating whole licenses. Done it six times now. E

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I liked it. Motivated me to put on the running shoes! Waiting for the wife to drive me to Costco. Story and pics to follow.


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Overall thoughts....


First off- it was a great trip. The people of Montana (SD, ND, and Wyoming the bit that I spent there) were fantastic. Simply aboveboard. The tags are expensive, comparatively speaking, but the long seasons make it worth it and the opportunity is there.



I think it was one week and three days from when I decided to do the trip, to when I was sitting in MT, and I didn't really get to plan until I was on the way. I didn't have a choice, but that was a bit rushed and I wouldn't recommend it in general. It's not that you need to plan for a year to make it happen, but a few weeks to a month would've been better. I keep a list of animals, where to find them, and the seasons for most states in case the opportunity arises on short notice. I maintain a relatively high level of fitness, am used to living out of a rucksack, have 95% of the gear needed either at my house or at work, am comfortable planning on the fly and that allowed me to go into this nearly blind without much issue.


Admittedly I am not a good elk hunter. I do not live where they live, I do not get to scout before season, it may be 4 or 5 years between elk hunts for me, and I've never hunted the same place twice. There is no doubt that guys who successfully stalk them in the timber year after year, or pop monsters by spot and stalk could teach me a metric ton about hunting them and every chance I get I STFU and take notes.

As to why I would drive a 90 hour round trip to shoot a dink bull.... Because I can. I want to know that I can throw a dart on the map and then successfully hunt whatever is there by my own skill level, knowledge and ability. Most don't understand that, but I have no desire to use a guide for anything, nor pay someone to hunt. Nothing against those who do, just not for me.







Gear.....




Rifle:


[Linked Image]



Winchester M70 in 300 WinMag
Manners carbon fiber SL stock
Nightforce 2.5-10x32mm Mildot reticle, Mil turrets, and zerostop

Not sure what the weight is, but that has always been down on the list of importance to me. Maintaining zero and tracking correctly no matter what is at the top.


I used the same ammo that I have used almost exclusively for 6 or 7 years in this gun: a 178gr Hornaday AMAX with 80gr of H1000 in Winchester brass. With that I have killed well over a hundred big game. I don't recommend it for elk, or even deer as it quite "splashy", however, it does the most damage and kills the quickest of any bullet that I have ever seen or used.... and I've use most of them. The only round that didn't exit on the bull was the quartering away shot. The other two did, leaving impressive wound channels.





Glass:


My binos were a pair of Bushnell Fusion 1600 BRF's. The rangefinder is great, but the glass.... sucks. It's usable, but has the most annoying blue tint to it. I may just be spoiled by Geovids and Vectors but to my eyes the glass is about on par with $200 binos. The Fusion 1 Mile versions are better, though I don't have enough time glassing with them to make a solid comparison.

I used a Leupold Mk4 12-40x60mm Spotting scope with Gen2 reticle and a Manfroto tripod. Glass is solid though not "eye-popping" on the level of a Hensoldt, Swarovski, Lieca, etc. But it is good and I never wanted for more other than it to be lighter. Tripod is heavier than I wanted. Might have to look at an Outdoorsmans.


Clothing:


For the pant base layer I used Ice breakers Merino wool pants (250 weight I think), and for the top I used the issued synthetic "waffle top" as I couldn't find the IB Merino top. Both worked as they should, which is to say great.

I broke a rule of the mountains..... I used cotton. Specifically Mountain Khaki canvas pants. They fit right and are durable. If it's really warm I prefer CP pants, but for cold to 60 degrees or so, the Mountain Khakis are tops. Of course if it"s going to be raining, or I'll be in an area where that's a concern I will use a soft shell pant, but in most of the west this late in the year you have the snow, but it's not a wet snow. At least not like it is in the east. I brought softshell top and bottoms as well as Goretex rain gear but never used them.

Boots were Asolo Fugitive GTX's. I had no blisters and only one or two hot spots the whole time. The Injinji toe socks and Smartwools helped with that tremendously.

Gaiters were REI brand and worked great.


Gloves were straight tight fitting leather work gloves with custom drop chart.....

[Linked Image]

I like the leather gloves as they let me "feel" well, are incredibly durable and just plain work. I probably have a pair of nearly every super duper glove made sitting in a box, and I still prefer them. For a glove that will actually protect your hands, I shoot best in these. I did carry Arctic Shield mittens in the pack, but rarely wore them until I headed East.

Note: don't throw leather gloves in the dryer..... grin



That's what I wore the vast majority of the time while moving. I can't stand to sweat preferring to start out cold, and maybe even stay a bit cool while hiking/climbing and then put on a good insulating layer once I stop. For this trip I used the ECWS "puff man" pants and jacket. They are heavier and bulkier than good down versions of the same, the only reasons I used them is because I left the down stuff at work.

This is not what I would recommend for others. Sticking to synthetics/wool is the best bet.





HPG Recon Chest Pack:

Freaking titties. Seriously one of the best pieces of kit I've used in a long time. I've uses it for just about everything since March. Work, hunting, running, you name it. I kept an emergency kit, lighter, map, compass, pen, knife, sharpener, headlamp, GPS, snacks, license, and extra ammo in it for the trip. Really dig that I could dump my pack and still have everything I need to survive most situations on me, out of the way.





Packs:


For the elk it was mostly a Mystery Ranch NICE 6500. Great durability, good carrying ability, the bag itself is well designed, I use the heck out of the detachable top lid, but it is HEAVY. Almost 11 pounds empty. Too heavy. I say this every time I use it, but just never get something else because it does work so well. This year a lighter pack is on the menu.


For most of the deer hunting I used a Badlands Superday pack because I wasn't staying out and it is a lot lighter then the MR. Of course had I shot a buck I would've had to go to the truck to the get the big pack.

A lighter 6,000+ CU pack is on the short list.





Sleeping system:


Bag is a Marmont 0 degree down bag that I've been using for three years or so, not sure of the model but it's one of their "good" ones. I sleep cold, and this bag has been awesome. Not once have I woke from being cold at night, although the coldest was around -8 degrees. It is narrow, and I noticed it on this trip. Not sure if it bothers me enough to replace it.

The bivy was a Kelty Goretex version. It worked fine but the zippers are opposite of the sleeping bag. The bag has left side zippers and the bivy's on the right. That DID annoy me.






Misc...:

Stony Point, Polecat I think, shooting sticks/tripod. This was my walking stick and rest for standing/sitting/kneeling if needed. Works fine for shooting, and helped tremendously with walking but a good set of hiking poles will be going next time. Actually probably the #1 item to get.

I have used the same Buck Vanguard knife since I was a teenager. It's heavy and doesn't hold an edge all that great. That stayed in the pack. I had a simple Cold Steel stainless steel knife in the chest pack. It's really light, and I've used it a bunch. Also picked up an Outdoor Edge folding knife with replaceable blades. We'll see, but still on the first blade after caping out the bull, and field dressing three deer, including ripping through the sternum.

GPS was a Garmin Foretrex 301. Simple and light. However next time I will take a more full featured one, to use the mapping software.

One of the most used items on the trip was my phone. I used it as a GPS, used it for mapping with HUNT by OnX, as a camera and as a ballistics calculator, among other things. It's nice that there are truly waterproof/dustproof cases for them now.

HUNT by OnX is an SD card or app for phones that shows you all the land detail- topo, aerial, GMU's, land ownership, etc. Really useful, but at least where I hunted elk it needs to be on a GPS not a cell phone as I had NO service most of the time.











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You can download and cache the maps ahead of time and just work off the GPS in the phone.

I used the app for my iPhone this year and liked it quite a bit more than my garmin with the chip.

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Thanks for posting. Great read.

I feel bad for the second guessing and sniping you're taking, and it is a reason I don't post much about my hunts on the campfire anymore. Anything you post can and will be parsed for details to criticize.

A few of the details you did are not the way I would do them, now, laugh mostly because I did them when closer to your age... and decided not to do that again! That's life. Good for you for living it and doing it and dancing it like nobody is watching.






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Quote
I feel bad for the second guessing and sniping you're taking, and it is a reason I don't post much about my hunts on the campfire anymore. Anything you post can and will be parsed for details to criticize.


You got that right...To many chiefs and not enough indians.

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Formidilosus,
Thanks for the epilogue. While admittedly not the top of line in every category, it shows that some concessions can be made and still have success. We don't always need the best of the best and its probably impractical anyway.

But something else struck me that I hadn't considered. Up there in one paragraph "F" said he did the trip, driving 90 hours, becaue "I can". He could put a dart on a map, buy a license, get there and hunt. That, readers, is a testament to the freedom we still have. That a well motivated indiviual can drive hundreds of miles and hunt public land on a "diy" basis is something we better make damn sure isn't taken away.
Mr. F. embodies a spirit that continues to make this a great Country in spite of who occupies the seat of power.


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Formid-
How long do these things take to get used too?
[Linked Image]

In alot of ways your gear list is very similar to mine, except I don't opt for cotton pants. Not alot is "top shelf" but will work. My problem for acquiring better gear is that I usually spend my squirreled away money on somthing that comes up for the kids and/or a hunt. I have hunting ADD... wink

Well done and thanks for the write up. Sure beats what I did during that same time.

Originally Posted by bigwhoop
But something else struck me that I hadn't considered. Up there in one paragraph "F" said he did the trip, driving 90 hours, becaue "I can". He could put a dart on a map, buy a license, get there and hunt. That, readers, is a testament to the freedom we still have. That a well motivated indiviual can drive hundreds of miles and hunt public land on a "diy" basis is something we better make damn sure isn't taken away.
Mr. F. embodies a spirit that continues to make this a great Country in spite of who occupies the seat of power.
Agreed!! Well said and timely. Not only do we have that ability still in this country, Formid has been smart in his life's decisions to still allow him to do so.

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Thoroughly enjoyed the hunt accounts and the epilogue. Thanks for taking the time to post!


Ben

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Originally Posted by pointer
Formid-
How long do these things take to get used too?
[Linked Image]




About 30 seconds. grin....


I've been doing the barefoot/minimal/Five Finger thing for 7 or 8 years so it wasn't a problem. I have heard buddies whine for a day or two and then they seem to get used to them and won't give them up.


When it comes to gear, I've no shortage. I have boxes and boxes of the latest and greatest outdoor wear. I wore what I find to be most functional in that environment. It don't always match the Sitka/Kuiu/Arcteryx mold. Usually when someone is decked out, head to toe, in a particular "fashion gear" they are either sponsored or they don't kill much.

Scenarshooter mentioned his and Kurt's bear hunt; as I recall he wore jeans..........









Got a question on the rifle I used for deer.

[Linked Image]



It's one of my match guns: a Tikka Master Sporter chambered in 243Win with 115gr DTACs. I carried that after the deer as it was great for the country I was hunting. A bit heavy but it is a hammer.

[Linked Image]

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FormD, sweet fence post and rifle pic.

No offense but I would be thinking WTF if I saw that out in the hills!

That is deer sniper stuff.


Get a 7lb 270 WCF w/6x36LR, try and get within' 400 yards.

It's fun.

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No offense taken at all. I generally stick as many with an arrow a year as I do with bullets. Have/had quite a few 7lb rifles with Leupy 6x's, though not a 270, and I dig the notion. Mainly I used it and not this-

[Linked Image]



Because I wanted to clobber one more with it before it got tore down and rebuilt.

A new rifle is in the works for next time... and it'll be a lot closer to 7lbs....

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Best thing in all your gear list: your custom drop chart. Classic. All this time, I thought my masking tape on the stock was way custom grin

I'll echo sentiments on your gear selection with regards to concessions - there ain't any 'perfect gear'; everything has trade-offs. Interesting thoughts on the socks. I'm prone to blisters between toes on my left foot due to a crooked big toe. They usually take a few days to develop and a bandaid fixes the issue but will investigate the socks.

Also agree with your observation on fashionable hunters.

I'll hand it to you. I was a bit skeptical of the exploit you outlined. I've not done the solo backpack thing but routinely get 5-6 miles from my starting point while elk hunting. It opens another world but also must be cognizant of getting an elk out in a timely manner. I've gone to working with local folks and renting a horse for a day or two to retrieve far flung elk. It beats heck out of 3-4, 5-10 mile round trips. Best $200 ever spent.

Curious how you maintain a high level of fitness. I've missed a bunch of workouts since hunting seasons arrived and am designing a new workout schedule. Its alot easier to simply stay in shape than to get back into shape.


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Ha! I'm sure I could get used to them, but I bet that first "30 sec" would drive me nutty having something between my toes.

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Originally Posted by pointer
Ha! I'm sure I could get used to them, but I bet that first "30 sec" would drive me nutty having something between my toes.


+1 We'll see.


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Originally Posted by Formidilosus


[Linked Image]





Model Seven, right? What mounts are those? Steel or aluminum? I'm trying to cut weight on a Seven that currently wears a Leupold one-piece base, and I don't think Talley makes a mount for a three-hole Seven.

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Leupold doesn't make one, that's true. What you can do is have a 4th hole drilled for two piece mounts. Then you can use light rings on mounts like Gentry's, etc. E

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Originally Posted by bwinters


Curious how you maintain a high level of fitness. I've missed a bunch of workouts since hunting seasons arrived and am designing a new workout schedule. Its alot easier to simply stay in shape than to get back into shape.



That's very true. One of the best things one can do is to not allow themselves to fall too far out. It also differs by person. A Clydesdale is probably going to hurt himself trying to be a Gazelle. Having said that, someone that looks like a malnurished african runner (speaking to you endurance people) is no more uaeful and probably less so in real life than a guy who is hugely muscular but can't maintain effort for more than 30 seconds. You need both forms for hunting, with a bit biased on the strength/sprint side.


As important to working out is food. This is where the vast majority struggle. There is so much BS on what to eat its not even funny. It's actually very simple; lots of protein, lots of vegetables, little carbs, and no sugar. If you are overweight or doing lots of endurance events (marathons) you will need to tweak that a bit- i.e. if your running for 2-3 hours a day, you will probably need more carbs than if you're not.



My workouts depend on what I'm doing or preparing to do however, strength is the basis of true fitness. I don't mean Arnold or fat power lifter, but pure lean strength (lifting heavy things). Followed by sprints (repetitive all out effort with short breaks between), rucking (hiking) and then a base level of running endurance.



Honestly I really don't love working out. And I might take a few weeks to a month off every once and a while. But I am required to maintain fitness. Below are my standards for what I do. Some are required, and some are my own, but I do not let myself fall below these-

185lb bench press- 20 reps
185lb back squat- 20 reps
225lb deadlift- 25 reps
Strict pull-ups- 18 reps
400m sprint- sub 60 seconds
5 mile run- 40 minutes
12 mile ruck with 72lbs- sub 3 hours





How someone works out will depend on their goals, body size, past injuries, etc.












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Originally Posted by JRaw
[quote=Formidilosus]

Model Seven, right? What mounts are those? Steel or aluminum? I'm trying to cut weight on a Seven that currently wears a Leupold one-piece base, and I don't think Talley makes a mount for a three-hole Seven.




Model 7 S/S in 243win. DNZ mounts. If you don't want to do as E suggested and get the fourth hole put in, the DNZ's or a One piece pic rail is your huckleberry. If you do get it drilled/tapped for the extra hole.... The DNZ or Pic is still the way to go IME.

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