Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Backpack Hunting Ask Scott Reekers About "The CAMPFIRE HARDCORE HUNTING BACKPACK REVIEW"

Hi All:

I want to thank Scott Reekers and his crew for undertaking to review and document some of the most cutting-edge backpacks on the market for hardcore backpack hunters. You can find the article here:

CAMPFIRE HARDCORE HUNTING BACKPACK REVIEW

Please use this space to ask Scott questions about the article.

Enjoy!

rb

Great review and write up. It seems all are more then capable. Would love to see a follow up on carrying a rifle with each pack. I know Stone Glacier and Kifaru have their own weapon carry systems, and maybe Paradox working on something. Would be fun o compare and contrast how they each carry and allow for access to rifle.

Great Job!

Congratulations Scott! Really nice job. I know a lot of time and effort went into this and I am very glad to see it pay off.

Nathan

Thanks to all involved in producing this comparative review.

sreekers- once camp is packed in, is there much difference between them being used as day packs?

Great write up, thanks!

Question for the writers...

You spoke of how tough the Metcalf was and then both reviews gave it the lowest durability marks of all the packs. Why is that?

For hauling 100+ lbs, how did the Stone Glacier do?
I'm not looking for a comparison to the other packs. Just its own merit.

Great review!

WIT-
I have only used the Kifaru Gunbearer and have mixed feelings on it. For easy access it's great, but if you take a tumble with it on, well....I can leave some bruises in the armpit.

I will post pictures of how we put rifles on the packs, I still used a sling quite a bit.

SU35-
I went back and looked, We did give the Metcalf the highest quality marks. In the color coding it's the third from the top. If could do one thing, we would add numbers to the actual graph to make it clearer.

Over 100lbs, the SG did well. Once we added the lumbar pad, and lowered the belt the comfort was even better. I am looking forward to trying out the new belt.

MR builds their backpacks like tanks. I still have the Metcalf and If I were to be using it in nasty country there is not a doubt in my mind that it would be able to haul all the weight I wanted it to, roll it down a hill, and it would still work.

Just curious if you noticed how sensitive the packs were in regard to how they were loaded? For example, was 1 pack really finicky in how the 100lb load was loaded in order to it not kill you on the hike?

Here are a few more pack pictures for discussion sake.
[img]https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/vkA2gxBwm09Oljvnjrr-Ms6gSblp0k64BZ3dXaTonKI=w1582-h738-no[/img]
The halfway point of one of our hiking routes this summer. Namack with the Metcalf at 80lbs I believe.

Kifaru with rifle lashed to side, we were about to leave after a week in the mountains chasing mule deer.

My .300 lashed to the side of the SG, works ok, but would have probably been a little bit better to have the gun harness they offer.

Good view of the Talon day pack and compression system.

Good stuff Scott!!! Well thought out and written!

We did our best to load the packs well. With the Bikini frame and Paradox don't put anything super hard against the back. There isn't a frame sheet to stop it from poking you in the back.

All of them held the load in place well, but we did our best to keep weight close to the body and never higher than the shoulders.

The MR probably was my least favorite as far as balance goes, SG kept things close and didn't stick out too far. Paradox had a bigger bag so we had to be more conscious about where we placed weight. The Kifaru is small enough that keeping weight close was pretty easy too.

How did the packs rate as far as how easy they were to get adjusted to your body?

Stone Glacier was very easy to get dialed in, Mystery Ranch is a close second, just have to make sure you order the right size belt and harness.

Paradox isn't tough, but there is a learning curve so adjust it well at home with weight.

Kifaru was the toughest to get dialed in, but if you have used the duplex it's much easier.

Scott,

I enjoyed the article on the packs. I was wondering why it was limited to just four lightweight high end packs? As I read your comments on the Paradox being fresh off the sewing machine, with improvements still on their way, I was curious why the review wasn't more comprehensive to include packs such as Kuiu, Hill People Gear, McHale, and possibly other load haulers guys might be interested in.

Don't take my comments wrong, I just would of liked to know more about some of these others. I appreciate the time you spent and your review of the four packs.

Thanks. Very helpful. That stone glacier is sounding better and better.

I'd guess that money could be a limiting factor...they did buy 3/4 packs. The other guess is Kuiu couldn't handle 100# without pain; Hill People don't make their own frame (yet); and McHale is a full custom (not really a fair comparison to mostly off the shelf versions) that also costs quite a bit more. Just my guess though.

No offense taken. This project started to get legs last spring, and at that point these were the packs that seemed to be getting the most attention across several forums, including this one.

On a practical level, we are two guys with regular jobs, and a limited budget. We financed this ourselves, with the exception of the Paradox. The Paradox was number 3 I believe off the cutting room floor and was a loaner that we sent off to Dan Adair after we were done.

We also felt like it wouldn't be fair to do more than 4 in a head to head because it would take over a year to give each pack a fair shot. 25 miles per pack means 100 miles total and hiking just about every day to knock of miles at variable distances and weights. Mule Deer scouting season knocked out a LOT of the light weight miles for me, but it takes time regardless.

Ultimately it came down to time and making sure we gave each pack a fair shot.

Here's a review of eleven more packs by the Outdoor Gear Lab.

http://www.outdoorgearlab.com/Backpacks-Backpacking-Reviews

KC

Scott and Nevada,

Thank you for doing this review. One question I had was:

If you had to choose a pack as a "jack of all trades" for hunting and backpacking, what would be your choice?

If you get your hands on the updated paradox, let us know if the issues you saw have been eliminated. Thanks for the review.

Absolutely.

I'll chime in on the Hill People Gear Ute, its designers don't really consider it a "meat-hauler", they state on their forum that it is designed to be a go-to pack for loads up to 60#, not that it wouldn't carry more, they just don't consider it the best tool for such a load. They prefer a frame pack for heavier loads, and with the abscence of all hunter frame packs (except for the Barney) on the market, they are developing their own.

The Ute has similar suspension/design/size to the Kifaru Late Season, and should be viewed as such. For a day-hunter carrying out a boned out whitetail, or the first load back to the truck to retrieve a frame pack, I think it'd be perfect. That same pack will do nicely for a general hiking pack, year round.

The waistbelt is quite Kifaru-like, but it has a thinner lumbar pad (this can be changed anyway, on a Kifaru as well) but the shoulder harness they have is truly unique and spanks every other design, IMO.

I'll post more when I've gotten some use out of mine with various loads. I think their 60# reccomendation might be conservative, but I haven't used it enough to say.

Thanks for putting forth the time and effort Scott and Nevada to test and compile all of this information. This review was a big undertaking. To confirm, yes I think Scott's pack was probably number 2 or 3. I think he got one before Nathan even. We knew there was some risk to exposing it so early, but we also wanted to get some good feedback and testing in and this was a good opportunity. I believe Nevada carried 100 lbs in the Paradox for something crazy like 35 miles or something, which is absolutely awesome and invaluable to us. We did refine a few items, namely the harness which I believe now is very very good. The lid was refined as well and based on feedback we have added a couple features as default (such as PALS on the belt). I think after having gone through so many testers and users we have a pretty good feel for adjustment being drop dead simple for most folks, it just took getting it on a lot of different body types to get the process dialed in that works best. In all honesty, we sent Scott, all the big stuff (6300 bag /day talon etc), where probably a 4800 and base talon would have been a better fit within his review criteria and it would have been a pound or so lighter and $100 less expensive option as well. Realize, we were just getting our feet under us, so it is what we had at the moment.

I was a little disapointed that they only looked at the 4 packs you see mentioned 'the most' on the hunting forums. I've used a lot of packs - including some much like the ones rated - and I don't that style of pack (bag on a frame) anymore period.

I like a pack like the Granite gear Stratus flatbed (or for the cheaper LL Bean 'carryall'). More of an external frame back, but with an internal frame suspension. The best of both worlds so to speak.

http://www.granitegearstore.com/Stratus-Flatbed-P21.aspx

I have a kifaru gun bearer on mine too. Much easier to load up with meat. I put all my gear into a drybag and put it on the pack.

This past fall I had my gear and 140 pounds of elk on it. I've noticed that the local hunting store is even selling the pack hunters here on Kodiak Island, and all the hunters i hunt with use it. But yet you never read about it on the hunting forums.

It seems the ones you do read about all have a bag that you stick meat down into. That said for many years I used the Kifaru long hunter - just the frame without the bag. And it was OK - but I pretty much killed it hauling meat. The new granite gear pack carries way heavier loads much more easily. Only issue is that the frame alone is pretty heavy.

Patrick

Could you elaborate on that a bit? Never heard of a "dead" Longhunter. Maybe the packbag but not the frame.

I will get back to this one, good question that is going to take a little effort to answer.

Honestly I have never used any pack by Granite Gear, but I have seen Ed T speak highly of a few of them.

Another reason we picked the packs we did was that they were all new models. A review of older proven gear simply won't draw the interest that new contenders will. People wear out gear and often look for the newest thing to replace it. That is what makes new gear articles relevant.

Another factor was all 4 companies build their packs with hunters in mind. Hunters like packs made by hunters for hunters.

Scott,
Great job on the review work and the article. I commend you for using your personal time and money to do a project that will be a great benefit for others. Also, count me as one who likes to use a pack designed by hunters, for hunters.

Last year, I purchased a Kifaru Bikini frame and a 4800 High Camp bag. Like some others have mentioned, right now I have no desire to look any further. But, I would have loved to have been able to read this review, before my purchase. My purchase decision was based on my experience with Crooked Horn, Badlands, Eberlestock, Osprey, and Mystery Ranch packs. I sold my MR NICE frame with 2 bags to fund the purchase of my Kifaru, and gave the other bags to friends who wanted them.

In the last couple of years, even more choices have become available. This is a good thing.

Thanks again for the outstanding work.
Steve

Scott, Understood. I appreciate all the effort put forth. It helps understand all the differences you read about with regards to hip belt designs, harnesses, and load distribution. Thanks again.

Scott, great article, and I also appreciate all the effort that went into it. FWIW I'd love to see a loadhauler review, though, maybe comparing a NICE, the GG Stratus Flatbed, and other offerings. I suspect that there are other hunters beside myself who want to take a meat-capable pack into the backcountry but prefer to throw a lighter, low profile lumbar pack on top to use for most of the actual hunting.

Good job Scott and Nevada for the detailed review. It is interesting that you say the Metcalf allows for the most organization, but I find myself wanting MORE organization than the metcalf has. This is usually only when I'm not using the daypack lid with it during day hunts though. My biggest beef with the metcalf (MR Nice packs) is the base weight. All trade offs, I suppose. Weight, organization, and durability. Hard to do all and keep the weight down... All four packs look like they'd be great packs!

Ron

Comparing the Metcal to the other bags in the review, there was a LOT more organization. Primarily from the top lid, and we opted for the upgraded waist belt. The internal pocket was big enough to be functional as well. Some pockets can be too small and not good for much of anything.

I agree with your thoughts on the initial weight, it is high on all of their packs. I would be willing to bet money that they will be offering more lightweight options in the near future. I don't have any insider information, but my guess is that they are trying to get proactive and respond to the 3 companies that have packs that weigh half of what theirs do.

Ok, time to do my best to answer the "Jack of All Trades" question.

The short answer is no, I don't believe that there is one pack that can do absolutely everything. I do however believe that it is possible to find a pack that will do just about everything an individual user wants it to do.

For this review, well I will probably reach for the SG the most when packing for a hunt or scouting trip. But that doesn't mean it will be the best for every application. For a wet trip I would want the Paradox, hands down. Deer season this year was really wet and I would have liked to use it then. My wife loved the Kifaru, and it was comfortable for me too. When the SG wouldn't cut it size wise, this pack would be my top choice. All about trade offs and options.

This is why we put the graphs together, you know what is important for you. Once you know, sync it up to the graph. If these packs were on your short list, you have a great tool to figure our what is your best option.

Nevada kept the Kifaru, for his style and body shape it was what he wanted. I kept the SG because I really liked what it had to offer and am pretty excited to try out some of the new bags they will be offering. I WILL be buying a Paradox, especially with the new bag options coming soon. Nevada has told me that he intends to try one as well, and is really looking forward to seeing the changes they made after we shipped the pack off.

The MR will be traded off soon, I have never used the Timberline series from Kifaru, and I found someone who wanted to try the Metcalf.

I have seen it documented fairly well here that you all like to buy knives, so this analogy may work pretty well. Gerber and Leatherman make some pretty sweet multi-tools. We look at what tools they have, how many blades, and how many functions they have. My Dad will only use a Gerber while I don't have much brand loyalty. To him that is important. We could go in shopping on the same day and buy two very different multi-tools from different companies and be happy customers.

Packs are the same way, and it may take you a few tries to get the one that you like the best. I am a gear nut and will likely keep buying packs until I am too old to be in the mountains. I doubt I will ever find a perfect pack, but I will probably find a few that I will have a VERY hard time parting with. Those will be the ones that stand out in my mind as "Jack of All Trades" packs.

I appreciate the lengths you went through to perform the trials of these packs.


Actually though, I didn't realize western hunters kept the meat. My perception from being on this forum is that many 'Euro' out the skull, take some fancy pics of the antlers sticking outta the backpack up next to a rusty barbed wire fence with a $2000 camera and chuck the meat of into some ravine for maggots to eat.

Would the military regard any of these packs for spec ops problems in mountainous regions at the last 300 meters of diplomacy? Are they good enough for diversified loadings?


Thanks again.

????

PRM, put him on "ignore" and you can enjoy your time here mo-better! And don't "quote" his posts and I won't see his garbage.

I have the three piece belt from SG on the Solo now, and loaded it up with a bit of weight.

Personally I think it is going to fit me well, and am glad they now offer two options for different body types.

I will post up some more thoughts as I have some time.

Nobody really expected you to understand anything, so I guess your inquiry isn't all that funny.

I suppose that any means of packing deer out other than bungeed to a 4 wheeler are foreign to you. I think I'll have to eat some mulie steaks tonight...

Tanner

Thanks for the review and candid comments, have you got any more photos of the packs? I'd love to see more loaded photos.

Regards,

Mog

Just wondering where Eberlestock comes in at?

My daughter used mine one time (got it at a yard sale in like new condition for 5$) for school, she used it once! then asked to go to wally world to buy a new bag until we went to the mall.

So-called "hard core" hunting packs? Then why did literal junk -- like Kifaru and Mystery and Paradox -- become mentioned? Those are literal junk product that are only supported by marketing [therefore popularity] hype, when it comes to true hard-core back country wilderness adventure/expedition hunting. Laughable column at best, in the real world of extreme adventure hunting.

Wow...

Let me guess, you use a Barney's pack?

Tanner

Who's "Barney"? You mean -- Barney Fife?

Mav, how much time do you have under a Paradox pack?

Zero would be my bet.

Uhhh yeah, you could say that. A Mystery Ranch 3-day is current SOCOM issue. Various permutations of the Lowe brother's original dual-stay internal packs (The Lowe Expedition) have been issued to SF units for 30yrs. Some of them sucked balls because they were made by low-bid idiots. The real thing has always worked as advertised. The Kifaru is the current state-of-the-art version of that original design.

The Dana Shortbed frame is load-hauling perfection, something like that would never work for SF units due to the need to be able to parachute with it. That is why the Lowe/Kifaru dual stay type pack is preffered if something other than a 3-day or the DeSade Special, otherwise known as an ALICE pack, is needed.

A HB0002 model Nexpack services tactical ability and certainly it does would service almost any "casual" hunting-related application, too. I wouldn't try to place a hind quarter of an Alaska/Yukon bull moose inside of one, though. But for everything else in North America, the HB model is great, especially for day use. On an extended backpacking (multi-night) excursion, I'll always opt for an external frame pack, but that's me. I like the dependability and the ability or option to "compromise under stressful or problematic situations" when using an external frame pack.

So mav, what makes you qualified to comment on a pack you never used?

I copied and pasted "HB0002 Nexpack" and got your silly-ass post. Do you just come here and make up stupid schidt to amuse yourself?

So, Mr. "Take A Knee" (aka - Knee Hole):

You weren't able to find an HB002 tactical model in either black or digital grey"? Maybe your so-called "google-fu" [as like D.L.'s] is somehow flawed?

Maverick

I don't get it... What's in it for you to be this way?

To be more specific, what external frame pack do you use if you're not using a Barneys?

My money's on "fudge."

what he said.....

Crickets.......