Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Rifles 6.5x284 vs .280

Happy New Year....

For deer only 6.5 X 284
For elk and other large critters 280

My New Years Resolution......post something related to the OPs topic in each thread I visit.

Shod

How about running 7mm 168 LRAB's?

Tanner I hate doing these number comparisons....so deceptive depending on who is running them and what gets fed in... but like Whelen said when everything is this close it gets hard to distinguish one from the other.

I ran the 175 ABLR in the 280 at 2700 fps,to be fair that's what Hornady says is max and of course this depends how hard you want to stomp on the petal.

Here's what it said:

At 600 yards, the 175 gr shows 1959 fps;1492 in energy;73" of drop from a 200 yard zero;20.5" wind drift.

The 270-150 ABLR shows 2074fps,1432 ft lbs energy;20.1 inches wind drift and 63 inches of drop from a 200 yard zero.

The 270 load gets to about 800 yards before velocity falls below 1800 fps;and the 280 175 load gets to about 700-750 yards before it falls below 1800 fps(thinking bullet expansion here).

Not making a case for the 270 at all but if I were the OP I would get the 280. Looking to me like you have to go to the 264 Win Mag to substantially beat what a 280 has to offer...that's a hunch and I'm not gonna run these silly numbers anymore.

My eyes hurt


Side Note: In all this number crunching I couldn't help but reflect on what we have collectively known all along...it's pretty hard to beat a 7mm magnum of some sort with the heavy 7mm bullets of 160 gr and up as a LR outfit...they just stomp the smaller stuff due to the higher velocity.We do get into issues of more powder, a bit more recoil, etc., but for hunting who cares?

I know more than one guy who gets 3000fps with the 140gr class of bullets from a 6.5x284. So, that will change your figures.

I know more than one guy who gets 3000fps with the 140gr class of bullets from a 6.5x284. So, that will change your figures. [/quote]

And I know of more than on guy who gets 3000fps with a 150 out of the 270 so it doesn't change anything realistically. Are you under the impression that only the 6.5x 284 can be pushed hard?

In barrels of equal length pushed to saami specs the velocities of the 140 6.5 x 284 vs the 150 270 are to close to record a difference. Of course we can push either cartridge beyond that limit but to only push the 270 hard and leave the 6.5x284 at saami specs wouldn't seem like an apples to apples comparison.

Shod

And I know of more than on guy who gets 3000fps with a 150 out of the 270 so it doesn't change anything realistically. Are you under the impression that only the 6.5x 284 can be pushed hard?

In barrels of equal length pushed to saami specs the velocities of the 140 6.5 x 284 vs the 150 270 are to close to record a difference. Of course we can push either cartridge beyond that limit but to only push the 270 hard and leave the 6.5x284 at saami specs wouldn't seem like an apples to apples comparison.


Shod [/quote]

I know the 142gr matchkings at 3000fps is a common load for 1000yd matches in the 6.5x284. I have NEVER heard of 3000fps with a 150gr 270 bullet. Most guys have problems getting there with 140s. 130gr 270 loads generally run 3100+ fps.

Personally, the one factor no one is mentioning is the higher SD values of the 6.5 mm bullets compared to the 7mm or .277 bullets. That is a bigger factor in game killing than BC values.

I have.. My rifle actually,and a 23" Douglas barrel with 58.5 gr H4831....nothing bad happened.

And 3200 fps with the Barnes max load of RL25 with a 130 gr Barnes bullet. I don't operate at those velocities but I have seen them more than once.

I would wager a small sum that many match shooters routinely push cartridges harder than most hunters,judging from the number of blown primers I hear talk about from the guys at my range during summertime matches.

As to the higher SD,the 175 7mm at 310 ranks among the highest SD's in the Nosler line and I saw nothing in 6.5 that comes close in the Nosler lineup...even the 140.Maybe some of the roundnose 6.5's of 156-160 gr will do it..

Near as I can tell, only the 220 gr 30 cal,the 250-338,and the 400 gr-416 exceed the 7mm 175 in the Nosler lineup.

Not this matters a whole bunch since bullet construction blows holes in most SD numbers in the real world;omce it htis games animals those SD numbes go to hell in a hand basket unless construction is good....and if you match good construction with high SD,you have a good penetrator ; but if you mix high SD with shidty bullet construction all you have is a long bullet.

Trying to persuasively argue that a 6.5 cartridge of comparable capacity,shooting roughly equal bullets,is some how a better game killer than a .277 or .284 is gonna cause me to yawn and walk away. I don't believe it.Sophistry.

Try comparing the 6.5-284 and 270 in equal length barrels. Comparing 28 or 30 inch 6.5-284 match barrel velocities against a sporter 270 with a 22" barrel is obviously stacking the deck in the 6.5's direction.

Minutia defines the topic, even with the 270 interjected into the topic. I have pretty decent hunting rifles proven at long range in 6x284, 6.5x284, 25x284, 270, 280AI, and some multiples of those calibers. I usually find myself with a 280Ai with 162s in my hand for no particular reason (if I am not grabbing a 243Ai). Not sure of the intangible factor that drives me to run 280AIs, probably familiarity, but something always directs my hand when I open the safe to grab my 280Ai over the other chamberings discussed in this thread and many others not not discussed.
My advice is to built several of each then just hunt with the ones you like best, they all do a remarkable job killing stuff even if you put decent bullets through vitals.

Familiarity is worth a lot more than all these silly conversations touting one among these closely comparable cartridges as markedly superior to another...in other words, I agree.

If the .270 with 150 LRAB can generate 2900fps, does anyone have the numbers for a .280 gunning 150 LRAB with .652 BC. Velocity, drift, drop.

CLB: The BC for the 150 7mm ABLR is.611, not .652.

Nosler shows a top velocity for a 150 from a 280 as 2995 from a 26" barrel,so that's what I gave it(giving the 280 a deliberate advantage). It shows a top velocity for the 150 gr 270 bullet as 2913 from a 24" barrel,so I gave it 2900.

The 284 bullet also has a bit more base area for gas to work on than the 270 so you will likely see a skosh more velocity.

According to the Hornady Ballistics lab the 280 shades the 270 at 600 yards by 60 fps;by 3.9" in drop; by 4/10ths inch in wind drift; and by 85 ft lbs in energy.

If you start them both at 2900 fps,the equation changes in favor of the 270 by the same fractional margins.It wins at 950 yards; if you want to call 3" less drop,a 2" advantage in wind drift,and 25 ft lbs in energy as "winning" LOL!

Pretty excruciating stuff and almost impossible to prove in the field with a rifle in your hands.

Yeah you can go to the heavier 7mm bullets in the 280 with higher BC's but you can't start them as fast. So it's still a horse race by a nose.

I posted on another forum about the 270 ABLR leveling the playing field with the 280AI 162 amax for longrange shooting.

Where Eddie?

That has been my thinking as well. The 150 .277 LRAB looks like one heck of a bullet!

Thanks Bob. Was thinking 150 while looking at the 168...

In the end all of the cartridges mentioned have a lot to be desired and the 7 mag as Bobin mentioned is probably a step up if wanting to go long range or maybe even short range for that matter.

Shod

I have a question maybe someone can answer.

When you start getting a LONG bullet shot out of a gun like the 270 with a standard twist, what does the rotational velocity do to penetration? It would seem that the LRAB may tend to yaw and tumble when used at the limits of it's range once it hits the animal? Could this happen even if it shoots accurately because the rotational velocity would be less than other guns like a 6.5mm?

would a long 6.5, 7mm, or .308 caliber have the same possible issues? We all know the 6.5s tend to have 1-8" or faster twist [except for remington screwing the 260rem with a 1-9"], so would it be less likely to tumble and yaw inside the animal regardless of bullet length or design?

+1





+1

I have been told that a fast twist helps keep an expanding bullet more point on in game animals,but if it were an issue with a 10 twist 270 you would not see 150-160 gr bullets from 10 twist 270 barrels do so well in penetration on the likes of moose, elk,and other stuff.A 10 twist isn't exactly "slow" and since the 270 has by now accounted for a few million animals worldwide,discussions of its terminal effectiveness is kind of moot.

I have seen the 270-160 gr Nosler Partition used on a couple of elk;one friend has used them on a couple of New England moose and another used them on his brown bear in Alaska.Can't tell you if they tumbled in the game (which can happen to ANY bullet)because they all exited and I have never seen a recovered one.Ditto with 150's.

I very much doubt it will be an issue of any kind with a 150 gr ABLR bullet in a 10 twist 270.

I know those long 156-160 gr RN 6.5's had a reputation for penetration when started at low velocity back in the days when bullet sucked and guys killed cape buffalo and other large stuff in Africa with them. But I guess it was not all roses since even Bell stopped using them on elephant due to riveting and excessive bending in elephant skulls...he eventually even stopped using the 175 7mm bullets and ended up using the 318 WR and 250 gr bullets for skull shooting elephants.

I sort of doubt there is any inherent superiority of 6.5 bullets in terms of penetration and terminal effect over anything equivalent in 270,7mm,or 30 caliber today.