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Originally Posted by eh76
Originally Posted by 4winds





Denver is a pretty large city for the mountains but has 645,000 people and Atlanta probably had twice that amount of people hit the roads at one time in their vehicles on a 3 major highway bottleneck that became a hockey rink within 2 hours. You could call it a clusterfuk and be damn skippy saying so.





Huh?


http://www.metrodenver.org/demographics-communities/demographics/population.html


Population

Metro Denver has a population of nearly 2.9 million people, and has a growth rate that has consistently outpaced the national rate every decade since the 1930s. The region grew steadily in the past 10 years. And by 2020, Metro Denver's population is anticipated to increase to more than 3.2 million.

To proactively plan for the region's growth, the Denver Regional Council of Governments (DRCOG) created Metro Vision 2035, a long-range strategy that addresses land use planning, development, and transportation while preserving Metro Denver's unparalleled quality of life. Metro Vision concentrates development in a defined 750-square-mile urban growth boundary and identifies guidelines for nearly 70 high density, mixed use developments in the region, many around transit centers.

A large portion of Metro Denver's population growth is due to in-migration of highly educated workers from other states. Net migration represented one-third of the region's total population change between 2002 and 2012. Metro Denver is estimated to have net-migration of 15,400 residents in 2012. The top states for in-migration are California, Texas, Arizona, and Florida.

Metro Denver also ranks first among large U.S. metros for total population gain in the 25- to 34-year age group between 2008 and 2010.

Northern Colorado's 2012 population is 572,967, with roughly 54 percent of the population located in Larimer County and 46 percent located in Weld County. Between 2002 and 2012, Northern Colorado average annual population growth (2.1 percent) was significantly faster than growth reported statewide (1.4).


Thanks for the correction eh76. The same logic for Atlanta would be 443,000 for a populous. "Metro" makes the difference, Atlanta creeps on double the populous of Denver's. And take it from anyone who lives in or near Atlanta, there isn't, wasn't and ain't gonna be any planning for an increased populous. DRCOG sounds like they're suffering the same BS visions for accommodating an increased populous that Atlanta has touted since the Olympics.

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Just so that everyone knows that the South isn't the only place that gets adverse winter storms, I just had to post this:

Snow in Vancouver!

Chilled Vancouver commuters faced their second day of winter hell today, as an additional � centimeter of the peculiar white stuff fell, bringing the lower mainland to its knees and causing millions of dollars worth of damage to the marijuana crops. Scientists suspect that the substance is some form of frozen water particles and experts from Saskatchewan are being flown in. With temperatures dipping to the almost but not quite near zero mark, Vancouverites were warned to double insulate their lattes before venturing out.

Vancouver police recommended that people stay inside except for emergencies, such as running out of espresso or biscotti to see them through Vancouver 's most terrible storm to date. The local Canadian Tire reported that they had completely sold out of fur-lined sandals.

Drivers were cautioned to put their convertible tops up, and several have been shocked to learn that their SUV's actually have four wheel drive, although most have no idea how to use it.

Weary commuters faced soggy sushi, and the threat of frozen breast implants. Although Dr. John Blatherwick, of the Coastal Health Authority reassured everyone that most breast implants were perfectly safe to 25 below, down-filled bras are flying off the shelves at Mountain Equipment Co-op.

"The government has to do something," snarled an angry Trevor Warburton. "I didn't pay $850,000 for my one bedroom condo so I could sit around and be treated like someone from Toronto ."


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HAHAHAHAHA that is funny!


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Originally Posted by BC30cal
Scott;
I hope this finds you and yours doing well so far this year.

When we first met as I recall you were running that rig up and back on the Anarchist, correct?

It's not the 7% grade on ice that's so bad there, it's the fog so thick you can't see the road..... frown

My hat is off to you and any other truck driver who can negotiate some of our passes in winter.

All the best to you and yours sir, we'll have to catch up sometime.

Dwayne


Good afternoon Dwayne. I hope this find you and your beautiful family well.

Yes, I was driving you wonderful and beautiful Anarchist hill. It was freezing fog and or snow and ice most of the times I crossed it. Made no difference if I was headed up or down it always was a fun drive. wink Sometime I would like to make that trip in summer. Same thing with the trips to Calgary, only got sent there in winter.

That hill just north of your place while not really tall sure was sudden if I remember it right as well as that little hill dropping into Kelowna.

But heck, if it was easy what fun would it be. smile


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Originally Posted by Moby1
Just so that everyone knows that the South isn't the only place that gets adverse winter storms, I just had to post this:

Snow in Vancouver!

Chilled Vancouver commuters faced their second day of winter hell today, as an additional � centimeter of the peculiar white stuff fell, bringing the lower mainland to its knees and causing millions of dollars worth of damage to the marijuana crops. Scientists suspect that the substance is some form of frozen water particles and experts from Saskatchewan are being flown in. With temperatures dipping to the almost but not quite near zero mark, Vancouverites were warned to double insulate their lattes before venturing out.

Vancouver police recommended that people stay inside except for emergencies, such as running out of espresso or biscotti to see them through Vancouver 's most terrible storm to date. The local Canadian Tire reported that they had completely sold out of fur-lined sandals.

Drivers were cautioned to put their convertible tops up, and several have been shocked to learn that their SUV's actually have four wheel drive, although most have no idea how to use it.

Weary commuters faced soggy sushi, and the threat of frozen breast implants. Although Dr. John Blatherwick, of the Coastal Health Authority reassured everyone that most breast implants were perfectly safe to 25 below, down-filled bras are flying off the shelves at Mountain Equipment Co-op.

"The government has to do something," snarled an angry Trevor Warburton. "I didn't pay $850,000 for my one bedroom condo so I could sit around and be treated like someone from Toronto ."


Hauled paper north through your home town and south with OCC (recycled cardboard) many a time. It was my normal run from port Townsend Paper Co to Crown Packaging in Kelowna for about five years. I love that country.


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Originally Posted by kamo_gari

Whatever, rookie. Your experience has nothing to do with this. Your input on something you've done professionally dealing with for decades is unacceptable. Those that have witnessed an icy road a few times in their lives and have seen a few inches of snow paralyze travelers, as it's not something they even get most winters? Well hell, THEY know what they're talking about!


Thanks for straightening me out. Now I see where I was wrong. grin


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Originally Posted by TnBigBore
If we were to err on the side of caution we would be lampooned by you very same people for not going in to work/school over a couple of inches of snow. This is just another excuse to make fun of us poor dumb Southerners. Normally I would not care, but this is the time that put me over the top.

Yup, just like the way we northerners get lampooned for living in a frozen hell. I take it to be in good fun and mean it the same way. BTW, was a southerner at some points in my life.


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Originally Posted by EdM
Ya ain't lived until you've spent winter on the edge of the north Caspian Sea among the folks that are essentially the first generation becoming mobile. crazy

Though a bit better, when it was bad in Alberta, well, it was bad.


Sat a a dock in Calgary one morning when it was about 20F and so much fog I could not see the back of my trailer. When the had me loaded and the customs all figured out I headed south on Hwy 2. It was ice covering everything. Trucks, 4X4 pickups, SUVs and cars all over the shoulders and and upside down. Drives slipping even with axles locked and differentials locked. Trailer trying it best to pass me. The further south I got the better the roads got. Road was looking almost dry when I came to Hwy 3 and turned west to cross the Crowsnest the mountains were gone in a solid gray cloud of snow. Road turned white and I did not see a black road until the next day when I hit I-90 after spending the night in Bonner's Ferry. But black roads did not make things any better. The picture of my antenna icing up was taken on I 90 just west of Spokane. That was a fun trip.


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Originally Posted by JMR40
99% of the southern drivers did just fine in the ice and snow we had earlier in the week. We had the same conditions in more rural areas away from Atlanta. The problems came when 1-2 vehicles, usually truckers, got sideways in the road and blocked everyone else. Because there were far fewer vehicles on the road here, and alternate routes were available when a blockage happened, we were able to keep most traffic moving and tow trucks could get to the stuck vehicles. In Atlanta once things stopped moving everyone was trapped. There was no way to get help to the handful of vehicles who couldn't move.

I blame local weather forecasters for 2 reasons. First of all the prediction was for a light dusting of snow starting at 4 PM. Schools and businesses made decisions based on that forecast. Local schools cancelled all after school practices, games and other activities and called off school at 1PM as a precaution. Many businesses planned on closing around noon as well. That decision was made the night before. Snow started at 10 AM here and was certainly more than a dusting. Kids were supposed to have been home hours before this started. Instead, it put all of the traffic on the roads just at the worst times.

The 2nd problem is that local weather forecasters like to use the "S" word in their forecast. It gets ratings up when mentioned. This is the 4th or 5th time snow has been mentioned in the forecast as a possibility since November. Tuesday is the first snowflake I've seen here this year. People get to a point where they don't really believe it until they see it falling.


I believe this is what caused the problem. It is hard to know when to stay home when your information is faulty.


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Originally Posted by nighthawk
Originally Posted by TnBigBore
If we were to err on the side of caution we would be lampooned by you very same people for not going in to work/school over a couple of inches of snow. This is just another excuse to make fun of us poor dumb Southerners. Normally I would not care, but this is the time that put me over the top.

Yup, just like the way we northerners get lampooned for living in a frozen hell. I take it to be in good fun and mean it the same way. BTW, was a southerner at some points in my life.


Sorry to be so touchy about the subject. I know you meant no offense. You just happened to be the 100th or so person to bring it up.


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If it makes you down south fellers feel any better, there is no shortage of maroons up here that can't drive in the winter.


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Originally Posted by ironbender
If it makes you down south fellers feel any better, there is no shortage of maroons up here that can't drive in the winter.


Heck I can beat that. In Seattle every year in the first clear day on Spring the accident rate skyrockets. Those who move her in winter see the mountains for the first time and forget about driving. Causes some really big tie ups.


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On the flip side comon down in the Spring, Summer and Fall months and try running thru downtown Atlanta and outlying interstates at speeds of more than 90. On my trip to Atlanta last week a train of cars passed me and I was running freaking 85+. They will flat out run over you down this way.

What's funny is to see all the mid-west folks heading back from the beach with white knuckles on the wheel. And rightly so.



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Originally Posted by TnBigBore
If we were to err on the side of caution we would be lampooned by you very same people for not going in to work/school over a couple of inches of snow. This is just another excuse to make fun of us poor dumb Southerners. Normally I would not care, but this is the time that put me over the top.



Wrong and that's horseschit! I've seen the same situation in El Paso, TX or how about when Las Vegas. NM got dumped on several years ago to the tune of 3 or 4 ft. Heck they had to close I25 there.

Originally Posted by Ghostinthemachine
Originally Posted by eh76
Originally Posted by Ghostinthemachine


I can tell which people on this thread have never lived in a city...north or south.


So tell me have I or not? wink


I dunno, but you do enjoy stirring the schit. laugh


Lived in several...I hate them all. I will even drive around Denver when I can. wink


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I don't know how people didn't know that there was a significant chance for some bad winter weather (Ok�.bad winter weather for the South laugh ) on the way. I guess it could happen if you just don't follow the news at all, but it is hard to imagine that someone that you would run into wouldn't ask if you were ready for the ice & snow. The women knew and passed the word, because it was a great reason for them to do some mega shopping! And they almost never shop alone! People had to know it was coming.

I did all the usual things I do if I expect to be stuck at the house and the power to be off for several days. I got some firewood from the farm, checked my propane tanks, got mantels for the lanterns, bought some fresh batteries, got two or three good books, filled three or four five gallon cans with gas for the generator and found a bucket so we could flush the toilet with pool water. My wife made a huge pot of the best soup I have had in a long time, as well as a big pot of chile and picked up some stuff that would be easy to cook on the grill. We could have taken in another family and done fine. So could most of my neighbors and friends.

We were ready, but we missed the ice storm that shut down Atlanta. Didn't miss a day of work, no ice on the roads and the tires on my FJ haven't spun since I got stuck in the mud last summer. The worst part was I probably put back on the 5 pounds I've lost since Christmas.

The only bridge I see on the way to the shop, has sand on it since it might get slick. Putting out sand is about all the county can do and I hope that they don't go out and buy a bunch of snow plows and salt spreaders. It would be a huge waste of money. We can deal with the little snow & ice we get every 4 or 5 years. It is kind of like out west where they don't use bridges. They just pave the road down in to the dry wash and put a sign up telling people not to enter if it is full of water. If the wash only only fills rarely, the sign is cheaper and people will just have to figure out another way around it. We have signs on the bridges saying that they may ice before the road�.Problem dealt with. I don't expect any more out of the county government.

People that live in the city of Atlanta may see it a little different, but that is their problem, not mine.


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I grew up living in Upstate New York. From the Watertown area on the Tug Hill Plateau, in the thick of the Adirondacks, to the Capital District Area in Gloversville, to the Southerntier in Delhi, to the Rochester Area in Lima/Avon.

I know winter. I am very experienced in winter driving. I took my drivers license test in a foot of snow in the middle of April.

I now live in Alabama.

I find it funny when my friends half a nation away think they know better than everyone here. They like to say that we should have KNOWN that all hell was going to break loose because the National News said that hell was coming.

Here is a newsflash. Here in Alabama, we tend to be staunch right leaning people that have learned to ignore the National News. We tend to focus more on what the local news is saying.

The public DID NOT KNOW anything other than the fact that it was supposed to get cold. Local news talked about cold, they did not talk about ice, expect on bridges, or snow.

We don't have the equipment, nor the materials, nor the ability to distribute the materials to treat the roads like I'm familiar with up north. No salt, no trucks with the ability to distribute the salt. No sand or the ability to distribute it. No embers nor the ability to distribute the embers. Hell, we don't even usually have 4 season or snow tires available for our cars.

Hell, is snows here about once a decade so it's an absolute waste to put the money into that equipment and material. Instead, we're smart enough to know that we don't have that available to us here, so instead, we close up shop and stay off the roads.

Crossfireoops was right. the management of this was a catastrophe. There were conflicting weather reports as to what was going to happen. So, they screwed up by assuming that it was not going to have precipitation, but instead was only going to be cold.

All that set the stage for a perfect nightmare. Nothing was closed, so people went to work, and kids went to school. They drove in the cold, and on the ice, and did okay, not great, but okay. As well as could be expected from people that only see snow or ice maybe once a decade and lack the tires, or road treatment to help.

While at their schools, and at their jobs, the precipitation began to accumulate, catching everyone off guard. The word went out that things were getting bad, so schools let out, and jobs sent people home....... all at the exact same time!

Grid lock happened. That would have happened the same way on a perfectly hot summer day if everyone tried to get on the road at the same time.

With the gridlock came the ice. Hills are everywhere, and as somebody pointed out, physics still works. Cars standing perfectly still, would slide into another car, or off the road.

Have that happen at several intersections across a city, and then the gridlock grows. and the weather begins to take it's toll. Cars run out of gas, batteries that are not bought with cold cranking amps quit, etc.

Now you have a scenario where nobody can move, kids can't get home, or even off the bus that was stuck in gridlock while returning home, parents can't get home, emergency workers are stuck in traffic on the way to rescue or save a life.


And this is what a bunch of arrogant, ignorant yankee's want to mock.....

Classy folks....classy.


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HAJ, I like you, but I think we're not seeing eye to eye.
now as you said and a few others previously, you had warnings but ignored them. granted you had your reasons, but this talk of "we never saw it coming" I don't buy it. I saw the weather reports here in south dakota, they told the south and east to brace yourselves for snow and cold headed your way. I get a strong impression from the news and on here that lots of people underestimated the storm from the average joe all the way to the governors. THATS what we're talking about. ma nature will rear her ugly head from time to time. we get storms like ya'll had often enough, hell we got 3" the other day and no one I talked to even mentioned the fact in passing. when you hear "bad weather is headed your way, it's a good idea to keep an eye on the sky and have a plan. that goes for tropical storms or blizzards.


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Originally Posted by HugAJackass
I grew up living in Upstate New York. From the Watertown area on the Tug Hill Plateau, in the thick of the Adirondacks, to the Capital District Area in Gloversville, to the Southerntier in Delhi, to the Rochester Area in Lima/Avon.

I know winter. I am very experienced in winter driving. I took my drivers license test in a foot of snow in the middle of April.

I now live in Alabama.

I find it funny when my friends half a nation away think they know better than everyone here. They like to say that we should have KNOWN that all hell was going to break loose because the National News said that hell was coming.

Here is a newsflash. Here in Alabama, we tend to be staunch right leaning people that have learned to ignore the National News. We tend to focus more on what the local news is saying.

The public DID NOT KNOW anything other than the fact that it was supposed to get cold. Local news talked about cold, they did not talk about ice, expect on bridges, or snow.

We don't have the equipment, nor the materials, nor the ability to distribute the materials to treat the roads like I'm familiar with up north. No salt, no trucks with the ability to distribute the salt. No sand or the ability to distribute it. No embers nor the ability to distribute the embers. Hell, we don't even usually have 4 season or snow tires available for our cars.

Hell, is snows here about once a decade so it's an absolute waste to put the money into that equipment and material. Instead, we're smart enough to know that we don't have that available to us here, so instead, we close up shop and stay off the roads.

Crossfireoops was right. the management of this was a catastrophe. There were conflicting weather reports as to what was going to happen. So, they screwed up by assuming that it was not going to have precipitation, but instead was only going to be cold.

All that set the stage for a perfect nightmare. Nothing was closed, so people went to work, and kids went to school. They drove in the cold, and on the ice, and did okay, not great, but okay. As well as could be expected from people that only see snow or ice maybe once a decade and lack the tires, or road treatment to help.

While at their schools, and at their jobs, the precipitation began to accumulate, catching everyone off guard. The word went out that things were getting bad, so schools let out, and jobs sent people home....... all at the exact same time!

Grid lock happened. That would have happened the same way on a perfectly hot summer day if everyone tried to get on the road at the same time.

With the gridlock came the ice. Hills are everywhere, and as somebody pointed out, physics still works. Cars standing perfectly still, would slide into another car, or off the road.

Have that happen at several intersections across a city, and then the gridlock grows. and the weather begins to take it's toll. Cars run out of class. batteries that are not bought with cold cranking amps quit, etc.

Now you have a scenario where nobody can move, kids can't get home, or even off the bus that was stuck in gridlock while returning home, parents can't get home, emergency workers are stuck in traffic on the way to rescue or save a life.


And this is what a bunch of arrogant, ignorant yankee's want to mock.....

Classy folks....classy.


I do not believe I am guilty of mocking. If I am it was not my intent.


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I've got nothing but respect for you either man.

It's okay not to see eye to eye with a bud. I consider EH76 to be one of my favorite people on here and yet I think he's a little out of line in his assessment of what happened here.

Here's the thing. You saw the weather reports in South Dakota. Dude, I don't ignore the weather reports in South Dakota, I just never see them. Why would I!?

We see what's reported locally. What occurred was not what was predicted here. You'd have to be here and watch the local news, or listen to the local radio to get it.

I completely agree that it was underestimated, but I submit that that was due to local reporting, not due to people just blowing it off.

Trust me, nobody fears winter like southerners. If they had even the slightest implication that this was going to be what it was, people would still be peaking out from behind their curtains! grin

It's really hard for people that have only experienced real winter weather once a decade to "have a plan". They just don't know what to prepare for, nor do they have the stuff stocked on the shelves to do that with. It's completely a foreign concept and for good reason.

What failed here is that the one's that should have known, the local emergency crews, law enforcement (elected officials), and the media should have had a plan in the books long in advance, on how to handle such an event.

They didn't, and it caused major problems.


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