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Originally Posted by MontanaCreekHunter
Originally Posted by snubbie
Out of curiosity, what type thermometer do you guys use to record -30 and -40 degree lows while out in the woods?


I don't measure temps. I match the bag to the location, time of year, and forecasted weather for the time I will be out there.


Understood. But some mention spending nights at -40. I'm just wondering what type thermometer they use to measure that.


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Originally Posted by snubbie
Out of curiosity, what type thermometer do you guys use to record -30 and -40 degree lows while out in the woods?

Never took a thermometer so don't know most temps exactly. A couple of my -40 times I based camp temps on the neareast town. Nearest town in the CDN Rockies was Banff at -46 and we were higher elevation. In Wells Gray Park years ago the temps in Clearwater were -42 and we were a LOT higher elevation. On a recent bivy, a fellow in a new pick-up told me that his truck thermometer had shown -23 F at dawn that morning. I hadn't thought it was that cold while still hunting at dawn.

I tossed a cup of boiling water up at a 45 degree angle one of the cold times in the CDN Rockies. It made a muffled crackling sort of explosion and nothing came down to mark the unbroken snow. A small cloud drifted away and dispersed quickly. Not sure how cold that is but Jack London used that phenomenon as a measure of deep cold.









Last edited by Okanagan; 02/12/14. Reason: reduce extraneous
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Comment on forecasts: They are virtually always for towns, in valleys. I look at them but like MontanaCreek Hunter I do not trust them to be accurate for the mountains where we usually go between towns. This Fall in Nov. the forecasts were laughably, dangerously way off from what actually happened. Forecast was for light snow for a half day turning to clear and cold for the rest of the week. It snowed a foot and a half then turned to rain and never stopped for the four days we toughed it out backpacking. It qualified as miserable. smile

When backpack hunting in early to mid Fall and carrying all my gear with intent to bivvy where night finds me, bulk bothers me more than the weight of a sleeping bag.



Last edited by Okanagan; 02/12/14. Reason: clarity
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Originally Posted by Okanagan
Originally Posted by snubbie
Out of curiosity, what type thermometer do you guys use to record -30 and -40 degree lows while out in the woods?

Never took a thermometer so don't know most temps exactly. A couple of my -40 times I based camp temps on the neareast town. Nearest town in the CDN Rockies was Banff at -46 and we were higher elevation. In Wells Gray Park years ago the temps in Clearwater were -42 and we were a LOT higher elevation. On a recent bivy, a fellow in a new pick-up told me that his truck thermometer had shown -23 F at dawn that morning. I hadn't thought it was that cold while still hunting at dawn.

I tossed a cup of boiling water up at a 45 degree angle one of the cold times in the CDN Rockies. It made a muffled crackling sort of explosion and nothing came down to mark the unbroken snow. A small cloud drifted away and dispersed quickly. Not sure how cold that is but Jack London used that phenomenon as a measure of deep cold.

The most miserable night I ever spent was in California, backpack camped in a new down bag in four feet of snow, with no pad. From that day till this I may go without a sleeping bag and have done so a fair number of nights -- but always have some kind of pad. If I have to choose between pad and bag I'd take the pad and leave the bag. YMMV laugh









Okay, I see. I remember a Jack London's short story (To Build A Fire?) Where a guy in the Yukon steps through ice and tries to build a fire, fails and dies. Anyway, he's measuring the temperature by his spit crackling and freezing in the air before hitting the ground.

Just wondered if there was a thermometer you used. Heck, I'd like to find a decent thermometer to take with me. Most are junk used as zipper pulls etc and at best, inaccurate. Never even seen one that will measure below zero.

-40� doesn't even compute for a guy from the South. Down in the teens is about the best we can pull off with the occasional single digit and rare minus single digit. Chill factors with humidity, on the other hand...

Fact is, much below low 20�'s and I have little interest in being out anyway, at least not sleeping out.


Gloria In Excelsis Deo!

Originally Posted by Calvin
As far as gear goes.. The poorer (or cheaper) you are, the tougher you need to be.


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Originally Posted by Okanagan
Comment on forecasts: I do not trust them to be accurate for the mountains where we usually go between towns.
....bulk bothers me more than the weight of a sleeping bag.



Understood the mountain forecasts. Very difficult at best and pretty unreliable at times, even here. Could be sunny in one spot and 25� colder with snow 20 miles away. I've seen a temperature variance of over 20� less than a mile from my house with a 600 foot elevation change. That's in the Appalachians, I know in the Rockies it's even more dramatic.

I agree 100% with the bulk comment. That's my big complaint with a heavier bag. Don't mind the weight, it's the basketball in my pack that is irritating.

This year I'm upgrading my pack to a Paradox. Next big(expensive) gear upgrade will be a bag.


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Originally Posted by Calvin
As far as gear goes.. The poorer (or cheaper) you are, the tougher you need to be.


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I often see 15 to 20 degree differences within a half mile of my house. I'm in the cold valley. Come November I err on the side of to much sleeping bag, unless I know I have buddies willing to share stove stoking duty all night


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Originally Posted by snubbie
Out of curiosity, what type thermometer do you guys use to record -30 and -40 degree lows while out in the woods?


I use an old Taylor Pocket Thermometer on every trip I go on, year round. It measures to -40F. It stores in an aluminum tube.

Sadly, I recently broke it and am now looking for a replacement.


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Originally Posted by snubbie
-40� doesn't even compute for a guy from the South. Down in the teens is about the best we can pull off with the occasional single digit and rare minus single digit. Chill factors with humidity, on the other hand...

Fact is, much below low 20�'s and I have little interest in being out anyway, at least not sleeping out.


Ditto on little interest in sleeping out in such cold. Avoid it when I can. I cut short a whitetail rattling trip in late Nov. due to guesstimated somewhere below -10F and my hands cracking painfully in the cold. My grandson demoed that the rib cage on a skinned frozen whitetail rings like a dull bell when whacked with metal. laugh

Somewhere around -30 and lower it feels more like pain than cold to me. In -40 and lower many materials change their properties, some getting brittle, some stronger, oil lubrication properties change I'm told. The old ensolite foam pads shatter with a pattern like a rock hitting a windshield. On one of the trips I rated at -40 my 15 year old son had frozen patches on his nose and cheek in the time it took to walk 50 feet from a heated vehicle. Time to go home.



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Originally Posted by MontanaCreekHunter
One thing I never skimp on is my sleeping bag. Weather forecast is at best a 70/30 proposition, but lets forget that part. Whenever you go into the wilderness for any and all recreational purposes always plan for the unexpected.

A few more ounces in a warm enough sleeping bag isn't going to make a difference. Being stuck up in the mountains in bad weather without the proper sleeping bag could make a huge difference.


^^^THIS^^^

Lost a buddy a couple years back. Almost lost two:
Fly-in goat hunt. Plane leaves. Weather moves in.
One buddy slides / falls to his death. The other hunkers down, alerts rescue. Took four days for the PJ's, yes, the Pararescue PJ's, to get to him. Hurricane weather with sideways rain. EVERYTHING SOAKED. Temp in high 30's, low 40's.

Only reason he walked away was enough sleeping bag of proper (not feathered) construction.

The weight and construction of your sleeping bag matters the farther you are from your truck.

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Down will work perfectly well in any condition, as I've proven to my own satisfaction a 1000 times.

Nothing wrong with synthetics (I've owned many), but down is far friendlier to a backpacker/climber weight and compression-wise.

Flying into a basecamp and daytriping isn't the same thing.


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Originally Posted by Brad
Down will work perfectly well in any condition....

Flying into a basecamp and daytriping isn't the same thing.



Only someone that hasn't btdt would make that statement.

Revealing... but not surprising.

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Only a moron can't keep down dry.


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Spoken like a man who lives in a location with "up to 24 inches of precipitation annually".

It'd be difficult to get anything other than dry there, but that's hardly "any condition".

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Originally Posted by Brad
Only a moron can't keep down dry.


You ever waded a braided/glacial stream with current so fast that rocks the size of grapefruit rolling along the bottom, that you, of course, can't see for the rock flour?

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Originally Posted by cwh2
Spoken like a man who lives in a location with "up to 24 inches of precipitation annually".

It'd be difficult to get anything other than dry there, but that's hardly "any condition".


I didn't always live here... have ridden out 100+ mph winds at timeberline in a tent in full-on hurricane conditions for 3+ days and kept a down bag dry... and numerous other occasions. 4 Seasons. Including in Alaska.

Ignorance is bliss apparently


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Originally Posted by Take_a_knee
Originally Posted by Brad
Only a moron can't keep down dry.


You ever waded a braided/glacial stream with current so fast that rocks the size of grapefruit rolling along the bottom, that you, of course, can't see for the rock flour?


If you're going to encounter wet conditions and don't stuff a down bag in a garbage bag inside its stuff sack, you're likely government trained (ie, a moron) laugh


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you guys are making me laugh so hard I have tears,if youve hunted enough youve experienced wet equipment, and yes even when packed in heavy trash bags inside a pack! I can remember guys falling into streams ,wading streams and falling, guys getting soaked too the skin in rain squalls , condensation dripping from tent ceilings,even packed canteens or leaking soft drink cans,leaking into equipment, ice and snow melting on equipment.
camp and hunt long enough and your see stuff happens!

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Yeah, all those idiots hauling down bags up Everest for the last 60+ years... if they'd only had a Wiggy's.


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Originally Posted by Brad

If you're going to encounter wet conditions and don't stuff a down bag in a garbage bag inside its stuff sack, you're likely government trained (ie, a moron) laugh


Love it!

Sleeping bags so encapsulated also float like a cork, a theory I have proven. laugh

A question I've mulled is not only whether it is possible to keep a down bag dry, but how much effort are we willing to expend doing it? Our primary goal is to hunt, not merely to keep the bag dry. A close second question is how much margin for error does it leave us if I find myself a moron with a wet bag?

We can all offer scenarios. This fall I started a hunt in light rain, bivvied in it, and hiked up six miles of switchbacks on day two in falling snow. Camped the second night in 8 inches of snow which piled to 16 inches in the open on the third day. Then it started raining and was still raining when I drove home from the trailhead after dark on day five. It had been alternating rain and snow almost constantly for a month. Humidity was 100%. Tree rain and falling snow were much worse than rain or snow in the open. My previous time in those conditions high winds were blasting soppy falling snow into every crevice and swirling mist into every pore and loft of anything outside of a sealed plastic bag. In our small shelter it was impossible to come in out of the rain/snow and not bring considerable water into the shelter.

How much effort I.e. how big and heavy a shelter are we willing to carry to keep the sleeping bag dry?

I have also proven more than once that a wet synthetic bag provides insulating warmth even when wet through, especially if you like saunas. grin Should you be blessed with wonderful solid freezing temps, you can then crack the ice out of the inside of the sleeping bag. btdt

I still owe you a moose, Brad, and enjoy your pictorials. To each his own but in my coastal hunt conditions a down bag is not worth the effort and risk of its admittedly lighter starting weight. We on the moron end of the spectrum need some margins for when things do not go as planned. blush






Last edited by Okanagan; 02/13/14. Reason: clarity
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Originally Posted by Brad
Yeah, all those idiots hauling down bags up Everest for the last 60+ years... if they'd only had a Wiggy's.


Everest is cold, which equals DRY during climbing season. Precipitation up high is snow, which means it is not soaking into things. I don't know for sure but I'll bet Everest climbers would fear rain at high elevation almost as much as high wind. IME cold is easier to manage than wet.

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