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Johnny Rowland of 460Rowland.com came up with the idea for the cartridge, but the does things with it that Clark will not do as far as the pistols he sells barrels for and what shoots in what, and I personally think I'd take Clark's advice. This is a powerful cartridge, deserves respect and safe practices. I would listen to Clark - and others with experience with the round - and keep .45ACP ammo out of 460 Rowland chambers. Like Gibby said, you can switch back and forth between barrels - or just have two 1911's (my choice!).

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Originally Posted by Gibby
It take about 5 minutes to switch back to your original setup to shoot the 45acp. I would go that route. 5 minutes more to switch back to the 460.

I do not know the XDm that well. In a 1911, there are some simple tricks to slow the slide velocity down and hold the round in battery longer. If your are getting 25' ejection, you are tearing your gun up. Simple as that. I would call Clark Custom.

How are your fired cases looking?

One more thing, quit shooting your chronograph. Ha! Ha!


Agreed. I have some heavier springs on the way to slow the slide. I have heard and read both ways on this, some are saying the stock spring is fine, others are upgrading. I will be upgrading.

My cases are looking fine. Of course you really cannot see pressure marks on straight cased brass very well until it is way too late. I was only hitting 1157 on the first batch of hand loads, so I am doubtful that it is overpressured.

I'm not supposed to shoot the Chrono? Maybe that is where I am going wrong! Actually, the sun was out and bright, so the diffusers were not doing their job too effectively. I got some readings on the first batch and then errors after that.

Originally Posted by Mikewriter
Johnny Rowland of 460Rowland.com came up with the idea for the cartridge, but the does things with it that Clark will not do as far as the pistols he sells barrels for and what shoots in what, and I personally think I'd take Clark's advice. This is a powerful cartridge, deserves respect and safe practices. I would listen to Clark - and others with experience with the round - and keep .45ACP ammo out of 460 Rowland chambers. Like Gibby said, you can switch back and forth between barrels - or just have two 1911's (my choice!).


I did look at Clark. He is an advocate for 1911's only. There is definitely great information there, but not particularly applicable to poly frames. There is much to be said for a steel frame cannon. I don't own a 1911 yet, but am certain that there is one in my near future.

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EFrench-

It is a learning curve of course. I wish I could help you more with the XDm. Sounds like your getting good case support with the barrel. Yea, when I want to shoot long range (with rifle) I have to place my crony in the sun sometimes. It is problematic.

Work with the heavier springs when you get them. Use the minimum spring rate that works. Too heavy and you run into other problems. Your mag spring should work, but the return slide battering can become a problem over time.


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The most accurate chronograph readings come on over cast days, if sun is bright shade the chronograph. I learned this from Ken Ohler.



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I have noticed that over the years. I have been known to use an umbrella on the critical ones. It always made a difference.


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Interesting variables! I measured the spent BB brass and found it to be anywhere from 0.949-0.955. I played a bit on trimming today and was able to chamber a 0.961 45 Win Mag empty cartridge(maybe mroe?). This got me to thinking (scary). Straight cases headspace from the mouth, so it stands to reason that the cases are held in place by the ejector. However, when the cartridge discharges the case is forced rearward against the bolt, not forward against the ejector. So, perhaps issues with shorter cases are academic?

I found data indicating that the nominal OAL for the Rowland is 0.957 and another source that indicates 0.954-0.960.

On closer inspection of the BB brass and the reformed 45WinMag I did notice some marks on the rim from the ejector, I suppose. The marks are about 3/8" apart and the same on each piece of brass. Could this have been from the forces going into battery where the ejector stops the forward inertia and not on discharge? I could also see this happening if there was case pressure resisting ejection, however the marks are the same in my starting loads and the hot BB's.

So, this is a great learning opportunity for me. If my thinking is flawed, Heaven forbid!, please help me to gain a better understanding.

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You mean Case length not Over All length (OAL)

SAAMI specs are .960 max. Trim to .950

Shrinkage is the norm in a correct chamber with short fat straight wall cases.

It' hard to say where the marks on the cases are coming from with out looking at them.

Any bulges (Glock Smiles) just in front on the groove? Caused by less support at the mouth of the chamber.

Is the primer indention round or slightly oblong? Causes by cases coming out of battery too soon.



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Originally Posted by EFrench
Interesting variables! I measured the spent BB brass and found it to be anywhere from 0.949-0.955. I played a bit on trimming today and was able to chamber a 0.961 45 Win Mag empty cartridge(maybe mroe?). This got me to thinking (scary). Straight cases headspace from the mouth, so it stands to reason that the cases are held in place by the ejector. However, when the cartridge discharges the case is forced rearward against the bolt, not forward against the ejector. So, perhaps issues with shorter cases are academic?

I found data indicating that the nominal OAL for the Rowland is 0.957 and another source that indicates 0.954-0.960.

On closer inspection of the BB brass and the reformed 45WinMag I did notice some marks on the rim from the ejector, I suppose. The marks are about 3/8" apart and the same on each piece of brass. Could this have been from the forces going into battery where the ejector stops the forward inertia and not on discharge? I could also see this happening if there was case pressure resisting ejection, however the marks are the same in my starting loads and the hot BB's.

So, this is a great learning opportunity for me. If my thinking is flawed, Heaven forbid!, please help me to gain a better understanding.



You mean extractor, do you not?




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Originally Posted by jwp475




You mean extractor, do you not?



Well, how did that get in there? Autocorrect! you gotta love it... thanks for pointing that out.

Gibby, thanks for the info. I will look at the primers.

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Back to the range with some heavier springs. I tried a 20# and 22#. I also applied the heavier striker spring. I didn't notice any difference in the felt recoil or see any change in the function of the weapon, however I did have one failure to fire with a dimpled primer (I reloaded it and it discharged as expected).

I shot 230 gr. TMJ RN out of trimmed 45 WinMag brass, using CCI 350 magnum primers. Starting load was 10.0 grains of Longshot with 0.1 gr increments.

Weather was 30 deg F with about an 8-10 mph wind. (overcast).

I found about 50 fps difference between the 20# spring and the 22# spring (later was faster) on the same load.

I did notice some oval shapes on the primers with the 20# spring and the ejection was about 20'

22# spring showed round primer imprints and about 15-20 foot ejections.

Best load was 10.7 gr Longshot at 1249 fps. I did notice some primer flow at this load however.

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Oval primer strikes is an indication of the slide unlocking prematurely as is the empties being thrown 20+ feet



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I was very happy with the 22# spring. I demonstrated increased speed, better primer strikes and closer empties. I am wondering now if I should order a 24#?


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Give it a try and see if it is better



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EFrench-

You sure get parts quick up there. You overnighting everything?

You might try the 24#. I would not go any higher. 10.6gr or 10.7gr probably will be your sweet spot. Have you ordered any bullets for a Hard cast load?


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Originally Posted by Gibby
EFrench-

You sure get parts quick up there. You overnighting everything?

You might try the 24#. I would not go any higher. 10.6gr or 10.7gr probably will be your sweet spot. Have you ordered any bullets for a Hard cast load?


Yes, it really isn't too bad since they retired the dog sleds. 3-4 days for USPS Priority. It really cracks me up that people still exclude Alaska from shipments when the flat-rate charges are the same and deliveries are relatively quick! Believe it or not, Alaska is part of the US!

After posting the info on the springs, I realized that Wolfe only offers the 22# for the XDm. The 24# reference is for 1911's. Are you aware of any other sources? I would be willing to give it a try.

I haven't delved into hard cast quite yet, but intend to. Of course the BB ammo is hard case, but really maybe too hot for the XDm? I did not fire any with the upgraded springs yet.

Last edited by EFrench; 02/04/14.
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Bummer on not having a 24# spring option. I only use Wolf.

Is your extractor tuned? Meaning How does it eject 45ACP and 45ACP +P's? Did the stronger striker spring work.

On the 1911's,you can use a square bottom firing pin stop and stronger mainspring. It really does work in slowing the slide down and keeping the round in battery longer. VERY IMPORTANT!

Right now, if I were you I would keep the loads moderate in the XDm.


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Originally Posted by Gibby
Bummer on not having a 24# spring option. I only use Wolf.

Is your extractor tuned? Meaning How does it eject 45ACP and 45ACP +P's? Did the stronger striker spring work.

On the 1911's,you can use a square bottom firing pin stop and stronger mainspring. It really does work in slowing the slide down and keeping the round in battery longer. VERY IMPORTANT!

Right now, if I were you I would keep the loads moderate in the XDm.


I have not shot any +p's, but the .45 ACP eject as expected about 10'. I agree with your suggestion and will keep around 1200 on the loads for now. Perhaps there is a better powder choice? I am not aware of the firing pin stop for the XDm, I'll look into that.

The stronger striker spring seemed to work well, however I had the aforementioned misfire with the stonger spring. So, I need to experiment a bit more with that.

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Misfire with the stronger striker spring?

Can you get Power Pistol powder? It is the "new unique" for the higher pressure calibers. Titegroup is very forgiving. You might be on to something. Quicker peek pressures rates might be the answer. You will not get maximum velocities but it might be better for the XDm. Might surprise you in the short barrel also.

I like this thread. We are all learning here.

With the faster powders, might want to look at Hard cast.

Last edited by Gibby; 02/05/14. Reason: Added coment on Hard Cast.

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Originally Posted by Gibby
Misfire with the stronger striker spring?

Can you get Power Pistol powder? It is the "new unique" for the higher pressure calibers. Titegroup is very forgiving. You might be on to something. Quicker peek pressures rates might be the answer. You will not get maximum velocities but it might be better for the XDm. Might surprise you in the short barrel also.

I like this thread. We are all learning here.

With the faster powders, might want to look at Hard cast.


I love learning!

Like everywhere else on the planet, powders are hard to find, so I take what I can get. I have seen Power Pistol on occasion, but not recently. Same with Tightgroup. I'll keep watching. I do have Unique, however I am a bit nervous to try that... I am using it for the .45 ACP 230 gr (same bullet)... so maybe....

I am not sure if you are asking about the mis fire or questioning if it happened with the stronger spring, so forgive the redundancy.... I was using the stronger striker spring supplied with the Wolfe kits and the round did not discharge. I cleared the round and inspected the primer and found a weak but very noticeable dent from the striker. I rechambered the round and it fired.

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If Wolf shipped that spring with the recoil spring, I would use it. It might have to settle in and develop a "set" at first.

Rechambering rounds. Measure for bullet setback on your loads like we talked about before. Very important. New cases, bullet profile, ramp contour, expander plug diameter and crimp all make a difference. We are pushing the envelope with this load. A reduction in case volume from bullet setback would be bad. That is a another good reason to stay conservative in your loading.


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