Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Custom Rifles & Wildcats Most common mistake on custom rifle planning

So what do you think is the most common mistake or cause for dissatisfaction on customs?

shooting the donor

Lack of COAL freedom/Mag box length

Weight and wait......

That likely sums it up.

Weight is a big one.

yup

Too much contour and not enough twist,are common Themes. Too much throat and not enough COAL,another.

Seen guys duped by Snake Oil and The 82 Trick Move bullschit too and often in conjunction with the above.(grin)

Muzzle Brakes for hunting rigs.

Balance or lack-there-of

1) Starting with a Remington or Remmy clone, or any other push feed action as the basis.

2) failing to find and use decent wood for the handle

3) not chambering for the fastest cartridge readily available in the caliber you want that will fit through the action you have chosen

Yadda yadda yadda ...

He makes Don look smart.

A liar, cheat, and an idiot.

Not finding a gunsmith who can and will deliver the goods to your satisfaction, on time, on budget- and back it up if something isn't right. And also not spending the time to discuss with the 'smith exactly what your vision is so he can fulfill it to the best of his abilities.

Bob

I think not handling enough of other people's well built customs is a big mistake. It always gives me a good idea what I like and should look for in rigs. Happy I have seen and shot a few of 30338s and his son's...grin

Tanner

Shank length!

The first "gunsmith assembled" rifle (if you want to call it a custom) I had put together had too heavy a barrel. She's been corrected, but it cost some coin to fix her--new barrel, new stock.

If you're gonna go heavy on the barrel, go heavy! If not, just go with a #2. No tweeners.

A lightweight magnum.

That's a good one... a #2 is to light for anything 300wm and bigger,IMO

Letting the wife know how much it really cost.

Sometimes not slowing down enough to take the previous project hunting more.

Bingo!

Documenting the entire order. Write specifications with details.

Provide photo's and drawings. Include the price and delivery specifications.

The threads in which I was accused of such, about as many folks have posted in my favor as against. Bottom line is that in an area of commerce, differences of opinion are going to occur and I have demonstrated with photos and copy's of correspondence that my view and memory of events was correct in the Ruger Charger issue that went on for so very (much too) long.

All that aside, that you would post such a thing in a forum and thread so FAR removed from those conversations, both by topic and time, and from the anonymity of the internet PROVES beyond ANY DOUBT that you sir are a low life COWARD!

As further proof of my point above, Rancho has the bravery to make a hit and run comment like that, then put me on ignore so that I cannot reply to him more directly. Wow, what an amazing example.

So sorry folks for the distraction and name calling. I would like to keep these discussions to the topic at hand.

Some disagree with my ideas about what makes a good custom, and that is great. Let everyone have their say when a query is made, and let the poster and viewers of that thread make thier picks as to whom to listen to or what weight to give to a post. Perhaps based upon actual, real life hunting and rifle building and testing experience. Others here certainly have more of that than me for sure, but few.

I will add that for a pure target or varmint rifle, IMO the push feeds including the Model 700 make very fine rifles. I just do not prefer them for building a serious big game rifle. Opinions and the sharing of same is what makes this forum or any other what it is. Experiences of many, shared and viewed among the members.

twist

absolutely! Most being twisted too slow.

Tanner hit it. (No pun intended, but that was a good one)
Nothing like handling a rifle you like to nail down(pun there too) the details before you build. A rifle that's built perfect mechanically but doesn't feel GREAT (whoops, one more), goes down the road or disappoints you the entire time you're packin it (yep, packin it).

Fireball,

Absolutely correct, sir. The problem for me for a long time was quantifying what would make a custom rifle "Feel good" or lively. I measured the measureables on some nice rifles that I really liked and learned that despite my having XXL hands I much prefered a slender pistol grip. I then always specified a grip diameter of 4.25 inches. Add to this an open, almost "prince of Wales" style grip and a slender but slightly ovaled forend with diamond point checkering and I have rifle nirvannah.

I am really glad that I had a couple of good ones built when I could do so and have so far managed to keep ahold of them.

Here is my best of the best, my much travelled and bloodied 416 Rigby, as done up by our own Karnis:




Closer up to show the grip area and smaller diameter



To make a lively feeling slender grip on a heavy kicking rifle like this one must use good quality, well grained wood. To hedge our bets, this stock's grip has a 3/8 inch steel rod embedded into or through its full length, epoxied in with Brownells Steelbed bedding compound.

This feature is also useful in that if I am ever run over by a cape buff and in great agony, the stock will still be in good order and can be used as a club by my tracker or skinner to bludgeon me into a nice, deep, pain free coma!

Fingers crossed

Dat was mean! (but funny nevertheless)

My trips to Africa and other far reaches are now behind me, I am afraid, so no bludgeoning in the near future. But the concept was sound!

Impatience/ignorance......

It's best to know what you want and why before building a custom, otherwise you're going to be disappointed.

Turning your custom project over to a smith w/o references who argues with you about features you want to stay in his comfort zone.

Believing ANY smith's first promised delivery date.

1B

This was it for me on my first. Didn't specify. Shank too long���.like 2.5".

That was it for me on my 2nd custom. 6mmAI with a slow twist. I loaded up dummy rounds, but didn't know enough about twist to specify when I ordered the barrel from Pac-Nor.

Good rule of thumb for twist��..FAST IS GOOD�.but FASTER IS GOODER!

My ignore button is for the trash I won't do business with. Too bad there isn't a ranking, because you would be the number one piece of self-serving human garbage on my list.

That's a personal problem right there..................

Bullsh*t.

Double bullsh*t safariman!!!!

As someone posted above.................liar, cheat, & an idiot!!

Another problem is people not being bright enough to know who to ask for answers to their questions. If you have an action question, ask the folks that make the action, not the stock.

It's a common problem with Yankees.

1.) Listening to people that don't know what the [bleep] they're talking about. This can include the gunsmith.

2.) Not listening to people that do know what the [bleep] they're talking about. This can include the gunsmith.


Travis

Shank length
Gearing for overall weight with no thoughts to balance
Throat/magazine disfunction
Too heavy of a contour

Excepting the balance problem, those have been my mistakes so far.

^^^^^^^^


This.


My first custom is a pretty basic .223. I have a really good smith here and I basically told him to put together what HE would like in a utility rifle. He did and it remains as one of my very faves...

Dealing with people who hate Yankees because their wife/ex-wife is from Philly and she is deeply entrenched in left-wing democratic beliefs, then because of this, has a greater than thou attitude towards everyone that lives north of the Mason Dixon Line!!


PS - For the record, BAT was contacted..........wanna see the email between me and Daryle Thom??? In fact, send me your email address and I'll forward it to you!!!!!!

Contacting BAT was not the issue, getting a return call/email from McMillan was.....remember big boy??

No, her family KNOWS how to say thank you. I'm just grateful they don't get puzzy hurt so quickly.

I have had many customs made and for me the #1 thing is to choose the right gunsmith, the first few I had built I had the wrong one

#2 is to have your own reamer made, not been happy with the reamer specs on most of my customs with rented reamers or one the gunsmith had on hand.

#3 might just be me, but using a Pac-Nor 3 groove barrel led to dissatisfaction every time I bought one. buy a better brand of barrel and be sure of the twist you want.

I did appreciate & still do appreciate your efforts/information, but obviously you don't think so??? You have to give someone the chance to say thank you, not jump his azz right off the bat (no pun intended)!!

Puzzy hurt.......not at all my man, just clarifying the record!! In fact who's puzzy hurt here and keeps re-hashing this BS after we kissed and made up??

This ain't even sporting. Trust me, you took my first post FAR too seriously.

We are all good....................I gotta laugh out of it!! In fact, I was expecting some type of post from you about that debacle waayyy before this one!!

no suggestion about mistakes. My advice for planning. I buy parts when I find deals. when I gather enough I get one done. Make no mistake if you ever resale you in for a loss

I autograph mine before selling. I always come out ahead.



Travis

That about covers it....what comes around goes around.

Barrel selection is the beginning and end of a good rifle.

That being said, I have never understood why someone would spend all that money on a custom that basically duplicates a gun that could be bought at Walmart.

Not budgeting enough money.

BINGO! We have a winner. The idea is to get a perfect gun so pay attention to those that have been there and done that. Most will tell you what they did wrong and what they did right. Lots of knowledge on here just for the asking. Why ask for advice and then totally ignore it?

Sounds about right. Choose a POS action and let it tell you what it could possibly digest reliably, then wrap it in something unstable, but fun to massage warm oils into.

Sounds like a girl I once knew

1. Weight. It's real easy for the weight to get out of control. Gunsmiths would always rather build them heavy because it's easier for them to make a heavy rifle that shoots.

2. Letting a gunsmith talk you into what he wants to do instead of what YOU want. I'm all for listening to and taking sound advice, but there comes a time when you've gotta just say "this is the way I want it, make it happen".

Assuming the rifle will be worth what you have in it.

How can shank length lead to such disappointment?

Serious question.

Weight distribution, and the fact that most shanks as supplied by the barrel maker look like stank ass unless they're trimmed a good bit.

My main problem with it is the barrel channel inlet. Longer shanks won't fit in say�..a KS stock and you'll be cutting it close with a mountain rifle pattern. I had ordered a KS stock for a 280AI build, but had to change the order to an Edge Classic when I got the barreled action back with a 2" shank.

And even if it does fit, you may lose some stiffness there because the barrel channel has to be reamed out so much.

Had the same problem with the 1st custom I had. I cut well into the gelcoat trying to get the shank to fit. That was a mountain rifle pattern McMillan. Not a good thing.

And it is unnecessary weight.

Bighorn brought up a good one. A typical modern custom rifle is usually a Remington 700 action with an after-market barrel and stock. Sometimes another factory action is used, but the basic principle is the same: Unless the rifle is put together by some "name" maker, you may have some difficulty getting much more money for it than a synthetic-stocked factory rifle of the same make as the action.

Unless, of course, you get it made in some wildcat cartridge. Then you might not get as much as you would for the same rifle in a factory chambering--and will probably have to include the relatively high-priced dies you bought as well.

A lot of people would be much better off getting their first custom made in a fairly conventional round, in a fairly conventional rifle. These are much easier to sell later when you decide the rifle didn't change your life, but another might.

Find the right gunsmith. A guy who mostly makes "tactical" rifles probably ain't going to make the mountain rifle you want, and vice versa.

Others have already mentioned this, but get every detail in writing, down to rifling twist, barrel shank length, etc.

Over the past 25 years I've had several "custom" gunsmiths offer to build me super-rifles for a discount, and sometimes just the cost of the part. Almost always they built the rifle THEY wanted to build, not what I wanted. They acted like they were listening, but they weren't, and after talking to other people ordered rifles from the same gunsmiths, they usually had the same problems.

Examples: One guy who specialized in tactical rifles promised a "light" .260 Remington. I sent him a Remington 700 short action and got a rifle that weighed almost 8-1/2 pounds before it was scoped. Another guy put a 1-12 twist barrel on a 7x57 (!!!!) because he assumed I'd only be shooting 140-grain bullets. More than one gunsmith has demonstrated that he didn't really understand how to free-float a barrel. One made the length-of-pull 14" because he was under the impression (I don't know how) that I have "long arms."

If the smith doesn't ask about LOP and other details of stock fit, he isn't really a custom gunsmith, just somebody who screws barrels and stocks onto actions. There are a lot of those around.

Entire books have been written on this subject. I have several, but the one I'd usually recommend is SELECTING AND ORDERING A CUSTOM HUNTING RIFLE. It was published by Charlie Sisk but is far from a commercial for his rifles, since he wisely had a bunch of people contribute to it. He published it because he hoped it would save HIM time, preventing having 2-hour phone conversations with his customers once or twice week after they placed their order.

Thinking that buying the best of every think of to which to build with and spending lots of $$$ will make YOU a better shooter.

Wayne York of Oregon being one. I'll never use him again.

He drilled out the aluminum pillars of a Mcmillan Edge Stock of mine and put in steel pillars and repainted the stock.
All to my surprise and all without my say so. Then would not release the rifle till I paid him for the extra services.

So, I would say giving explicit instructions to your smith.

I've noticed many smiths adding work and parts to a rifle that were not initially wanted.

Also, Building a rifle on a Winchester Pre 64 action.

Yeah, some will nickel and dime you to death with "little" extras.

I've known "accuracy" smiths who simply wouldn't deal with pre-'64's, saying they required too much work. On the other hand, many pre-'64's shoot very well as-is!

++++

Closed minded much?

Get it in writing, all of it. Let's them know you CARE about how this turns out!
Sent a full custom Mini 14 back to Texas to have the crown redone. Came back with a 6" long adjustable brake. Completely ruined the gun. Sold it.

Oh, boy, another gunsmith who wanted to "impress."

If you do not give explicit instructions to your smith, you take your chances.

Expecting to get what you have into a custom rifle if you decide to sell it, is just plain crazy.

I had a custom 9.3x62 Mauser built for my Africa trip in 2012, it was built just the way I wanted it and I have much more into the build than it is worth, but it is my rifle done the way I wanted it. Never plan to sell it!

I'd suggest if a smith can't get a custom based on a pre 64 M70 to shoot, that the problem is the smith, not the action.

Not just picking the Montana in the caliber you want, picking wood or synthetic, pick a scope and mounts.

Then all you have to do is pick a sling, if you use 'em.

If you can't get it to shoot, add a new barrel still cheaper than roll yer own.

Too much freebore, and not enough room in the magazine for Cartridge Over all length.

The above was said previously, deserves repeating for those not into safe queens.

Gunsmiths may BS you on how good the barrels shoot with their reamer, but remember, if you can't kiss the lands, then find pressure, you screwed from the get go.

I learned the hard way to get a gunsmith to run the reamer in to the depth of the shoulder on the end of a barrel stubb and mail that to me. If he takes a quarter cut on a milling machine you will have a "window" to see the lands and freebore. You can still insert a case with a bullet in it to check the exact amount of freebore and OAL as the rifle will come to you with a new chamber.

The above is where you start if you want a super accurate rifle, but it is usually just a passing question or no interest in it at all.

I had Ray Montgomery build me a rifle once, and he included a stub of barrel that he throated exactly the same as my gun so I had an easy method for measuring to the lands. Only smith that has ever done that for me.

Thinking it will do something that a factory rifle won't do.............

Most smith's will make barrel stub guage but it will cost you....

Dowling does same on each build. Those guys are buds so no surprise. Wish they were both 30 years younger as I have more rigs that I'd like Dan to build.

'223,

That's standard fare.










rembo,

I've HAPPILY built Customs to reap a twist that weren't available and chamberings that weren't available. Of course Today,there's more of each available OEM over the counter,but certainly not all dots is connected.

Have yet to build,justa' build.(grin)










'338,

Dan's work,blows Ray outta da water.

Great Plumbers abound.

Hint.

Another mistake is not letting Boxer do your barrel break-in for you.......................Boxer please post video!!

Can't speak for Ray, but Dan has been a favorite. Number of friends have used him and he is class all the way. Nice cause he is over near my bear hunting spot and always nice to drop a rig off or pick one up while in the area. Plus his shop is a man cave from heaven. Love stopping in there.

but Dan only works on M700's...

Stick is the one who got me started down the right path on about my 3rd build. Much appreciated his time and knowledge along the way. Not using his break in procedure though....

Yup. No problem for me though.

search it out on youtube...it's still there...I watch it once a week...:-)

Yep. It's some good schitt!

Dan Dowling is a great gunsmith, he is even a better human being. but dont let him talk you into trying his ghost pepper hot sauce. WOW burnin ring of fire is an understatement !!!

WRONG !!!!!

I talked to him on the phone. Why would I lie?

Not saying you are lying, he is a bit hard of hearing and you might of misunderstood him

Letting somebody else build it. Do it yourself. Be happy.

Last I talked to him, he would work on 700s and 700 clones. Think he does a lot of benchrest stuff too and sure those are higher end actions. Easy enough to call him during his shop hours and find out.

I called him when I had my 6.5-06 built. It was a Savage action. He told me he only works on M700's these days, and told me to call Ray Montgomery for Savage, Ruger, etc. I talked to him for awhile, and he was a nice guy. We just bullschitted about guns and shooting.

Those barrel stubs with the reamer ran in are called "neck Checkers". The term came from wildcatters and benchrest shooters necking down cases from other cartridges other than the formed case. The brass gets thicker when you neck it down, if the case would drop in the barrel stubb, then the round was safe to shoot in the rifle, in as far as neck Outside Diameter was concerned. The added benefit came when someone realized that you could also check the Bullet seating depth. Milling away 1/4 of the barrel stubb along the bore axis reveals the leade angle, amount of throat, and distance between the front of the case and the point where the leade angle starts. You can not measure these distances, but you can sure see them.

And they work great for checking shoulder bump dimensions accurately!

Likely; one of biggest mistakes a man can make is thinking he can do it right the 1st time... I can't think of anyone I ever knew that had a custom built that didn't do it again, and again, and....

After I get one done, I always find there is something I wish I had done differently... Never fails!

GH

Paying what one costs'. Other than looking prettier, I'll put my stock Savage outta the box up against any custom. Yeah you might shoot a quarter inch better, but you have to ask yourself, is several thousand dollars really worth that 1/4 in?

In my experience it has been building the rifle too heavy for the task intended and not watching a local hack gunsmith close enough and winding up with a ruined rifle in the end.

#1 mistatke is probably building a rifle too heavy for the intended purpose. Second would probably be not getting the coal of the rounds correct for the intended purpose.