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Kuiu 6000 Ultra Pack

That strap adjustment system looks REALLY problematic. Lowe Alpine foisted some schidt like that off on the Army and it never worked right.

There is no way, IMO, to improve upon a suspension system like that of Kifaru or Hill People Gear.

Dana Gleason improved on them 25+ years ago.

If you are refering to the Shortbed, I'd wholeheartedly agree. It gets even better with HPG stuff strapped on it.

Nope.

Dana didn't do external frames, K2 did those after they bought Dana. They're very good no doubt.

The arcflex suspension and its closest copy, the Arcteryx Bora suspension, are likely the two best internal frame load-hauler suspensions ever devised and the Arcfles came out 25+ years ago by Dana. Often copied, never replicated.

Kifaru is nice, but is no Dana.

This pack looks interesting. I might gamble $350 on it.

Jason's packs kick azz. If you are counting grams and expect things to hold up well, his are the pinnacle. Are they as "bombproof" as maybe Kifaru or Eberlestock? Maybe, maybe not. Do they weigh a fraction of what those weigh and still give you a TON of options? Yep. He stands behind what they make, too.

The Paradox is still lighter

Haven't handled that one� yet.

I should add, especially when it's raining and sleeting
Take care
Kevin

Kevin, is the 4.2 lbs quoted on the website for the pack with the 6300 drawstring bag and Talon? All inclusive??

It depends. The Standard frame, suspension and compression is 2 lbs 6 ounces. The UL frame, suspension and compression is 2 lbs 3 ounces.

Roll Top XPAC bags are generally 14 - 18 ounces depending on size and zipper. 210 Denier Tan bags are generally 5 ounces less.

Base Talons average 5 ounces, but vary a bit on fabric choice. Cuben for instance is 3.7 and Camo over 5.

Day Talons about 12 - 13 depending on size and fabric.

The configuration I weighed yesterday was a Tan 3900 with zip/ Cuben Talon / UL Frame / Large belt and it was 56 ounces, which I thought seemed heavy. Then I remembered I had a small torso pad (8 ounces) in the packbag (oops). All of these weights include the load sling and load shelf capability, and the capability to be used with a Talon or Pack bag alone to save more weight.

Can you give us a simple response as to how much the 6300 weights (like 3 pounds, 5 ounces)? I'm 6'3" and would need a frame for that size.

The suspension weight and pack bag weight does not change due to height , other than the use of frame extensions ( 1 -1.5 ounces) which are optional.

A Roll Top 6300 in Gray, on the standard suspension, with a Base Talon is 3 lbs 12 ounces for 7300 CI.

A 6300 Dual Draw String included the pocketed lid and is 7 ounces more with the lid, for a total weight of 4 lbs 2 ounces and 8300 CI.

You can save 3 ounces with the UL frame, and 5 or 6 ounces with the Tan 210 D bag if you wish.

Thanks. For a roll-top 6300 with standard suspension and an 1800 day talon, large hip belt, what's the weight using VX21 X-pac??

Thanks for the reply Kevin.

Add 8 ounces for day talon 1800 give or take a few grams

Eberlestock is not even close to being the league of U.S.A. made packs.

Seen a few blown out. Horrible haulers as well.

Mine never made it out of my garage.

You know, there's a good number of people who use Eberlestock packs and are happy. I've had two. The X-1 which is a good daypack size, and the J-107 Dragonfly.
Both seem to be well made IMO, and a good value for the money, especially for someone who wants a decent pack but doesn't want to, or can't drop 5 or 6 bills on a pack.

I've packed a full whitetail in the X-1. And I've carried it on numerous turkey hunts in the last few years. No real complaints and nothing has blown out. The whitetail is the heaviest load it has carried.

I carried the J-107 last year on a couple of weekenders and in Idaho for a mule deer hunt, packing in and out camp. No problems.

Admittedly, I don't have decades of experience packing heavy loads and I've never carried a Kifaru, Mystery Ranch, Stone Glacier, Kuiu, McHale, etc.

I have carried a DD Terraplane a "few" miles and like it a lot.

Having said all that, the J-107 is heavy IMO at about 9lbs. Using it as a daypack while hunting, climbing the mountains out west and down into the gorges around here, it's just too heavy as a daypack.

So I sold it for that reason. It's just too darn heavy.

I bought the Paradox.

I like it's configuration and versatility. I like that it's made in Colorado by some quality guys on this forum. I like supporting mom & pop businesses, especially those dealing in quality products. And I really like its light weight.

I got the 4800 bag, with zipper, and the base Talon compression panel & frame extension.

FWIW that combo weighs 3.7 lbs on my little electronic scale.

Anyway, my two cents.

Rolled the dice on the Kuiu, we'll see what shakes down....

You won't regret it one bit. I love mine and have carried everything from a mtn goat to several elk out with it and I don have any complaints period. I still have an old Kifaru long hauler but my KUIU goes hunting with me now.

Do you have the Ultra or Icon?

Icons on clearance sale,

http://store.kuiu.com/category-s/18...m_term=0_9355cbd70e-d467fe3398-298818193

I have the Icon. The first one was the original 3000 and now I have the '12 model 7200, great packs.

The icon is a great pack. I have the 7200 and will get the 1850 soon.

Yeah I would like to try the 1850 for archery as well. It has a bigger load shelf and should compress even smaller then the 7200 now. But super light weight and quiet as well, handles loaded up even better IMO.

What's the advantage with the new ULTRA 6000 pack over the ICON 7200 or ICON 5200? They are all priced about the same.

Weight and frame, I reckon. I like the available bags as well. We'll see WTF......

[video:youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=nNBw1FWWyU0[/video]

The Ultra is still $50 and $40 less than the 7200 and 5200 even on clearance...the ICON was substantially more prior to this weeks clearance.

Interesting...
[video:youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=8Z3Swf7vjZg[/video]

Looks good outta the gate....

Mine just shipped. Supposed to arrive on 4/25. Yea!

Pass the Stone Glacier....grin

Tanner

Went right past it......double grin

I just placed an order for the ultra 6000. I have been going back and forth on packs for about 4 months and at that price point I figured it was worth a try.

Can't wait to give it a workout.

Figure it'll either be the last pack I buy, or the last KUIU pack I buy.

16 Bore Your selling this quick on Rokslide what gives you no like?

Rokslide classifieds

I like it, but Tanner was making fun of me. Even though he's on his 3rd 7RM and it looks like it came from Yo Gabba Gabba...

But in all seriousness, I'm going to run my Dana another year and see WTF. Was tossing around a Stone Glacier & Outdoorsman's before I pulled the trigger on the Kuiu. Figure in for a dime, in for a dollar. Another $200 isn't much in the grand scheme and might as well get full value than beat the crap out of it for a year and sell it for 1/2. Got free shipping on the purchase, so it ain't no thang.

I've been known to let the fat brown Santa bring me stuff to play with and ship it back. I do have more class than to wear a suit to a wedding and take it back the following Monday though. My buddies, not so much.....

If you really wanted to save weight you could go Paradox Unaweep. I just weighed a vx21 gray 3900 with base talon at 3 lbs 2
Ounces. Add 2 ounces for a 4800 which provides zippered access and when matched with a base talon is 5800 capacity.
Camo weighs very similar. Simple,
Lightweight , weatherproof without needing a 2nd mortgage

I'll look a but deeper into those this round. I've always liked that Talon idea.

I love the Paradox. Switched mine from backpack mode to bear hunting mode last night by adding the frame extenders and changing to the orange Talon. It took all of a couple minutes. The more I use this pack, the more I like it.

Another +1 for the Paradox. The belt does not slip! The thing is awesome.

Where is the KUIU pack made?

Frame in CA, bag smelled like sushi.....

16bore,

Did you have any complaints or were you just checking it out and not planning to keep it from the beginning?

I am looking at the Stone Glacier as well.

"New and Improved" never sits well with me. I don't like that the padding is thin and that the straps are sewn to the padding and not running through. At least it appears that way, not sure whats on the inside. I compared it to another Dana I have that's actually a post K2 and don't see it as being that far "ahead". I don't like that wedging gear/meat/whatever between the bag and frame is your "load shelf" and think the SG wins in that department, though I've never had my hands on one.

After all the initial chatter, I think a few things stand out. It seems the price point was the biggest selling feature of all. I've read too many threads that start or end "...for the money...". If in the grand scheme of things another $200 on a pack is the difference between having a good pack and not, then you need to step back and look at your schit. Everybody but our wives knows the amount of money we blow on this crap. If you're $350 in already on a backpack, you're already spending a chunk of change.

There was a pile of controversy with the Rokslide/Kuiu gang regarding some oddball tests the Rokslide wanted to do with the pack and Kuiu wouldn't have a part in it. I don't know all the details, but something always sat funny with me regarding that. Then Jason does his own "tests". Why? Are his tests better or did he not want it in the hands of folks who would bash it?

I liked what I saw initially, but started wonder if it was a price built piece of gear vs a purpose built one. I don't think comparing it to SG or MR is apples to apples.

Lastly, the big tag that said "Made in Vietnam" didn't give me the warm and fuzzy. Granted its just the bag thats imported (I think), but a little USA goes a long way. Yes, I drive a Toyota and that aint the point....

As far as I'm concerned, its the Tikka of backpacks.

Take the above with all the salt you'd like, but that's my story. And the next new pack in my mitts will be a SG.

As a side note, I'm still waiting for my Dana to puke.....

Thanks for the response. I look forward to checking mine out and may order a SG as well to do a direct comparison.

If it's the Tikka of backpacks, I'm definitely ordering one

So far I am very happy with my Ultra. It is very comfortable with both light and heavy loads. I have gone on some long hikes in the 40-80 lb range and some shorter ones in the 100+ lb range. No hot spots. Carries a load well. Amazing how light it is yet how solid it feels with a heavy load. Suspension is comfortable as well. I don't feel that it is too thin and I like the spacer mesh material, very fast drying / breathable.

I'd guess they are pretty similar, although I've never handled the Kuiu packs.



That was my impression from what I've seen in pictures, but I'm not sure it is a fair representation. When you start getting into lightweight stuff, you are either paying for lighter materials, or less "stuff". Usually a combination.

As to their marketing, it could be worse. They could be on the campfire inserting their name into every thread about a non-Kuiu pack.

Reckon so....

As for the Tikka reference, it's new and built somewhat differently. Folks love them, they hate them. I'll let the masses run the dog snot out of it and see how it holds up. Mine's going back to Cali for now. Never know, I like mustard on my crow.

Got the 6000 pack yesterday.

It seems well made and extremely light. I like the overall design and layout.

However, I am having an issue with the base putting pressure on the center of my lower back. This is most likely my issue, i am 6'6" and most things don't fit perfect. I will try more weight and adjustments today but imagine that it will get worse.

I wish the frame was a little bit longer.

Point well taken cwh2. I am just trying to dispel marketing claims that it is the lightest "hunting" pack out there when in fact it is not.

Yes, that would be evil for an American to try to promote an American-made product to be used by Americans. CW, GFY, and have a nice day.

How's your Paradox working out?

And I hope you continue to do that, because by all accounts the paradox is a great pack, and seems very interesting. I'd hate to see you afraid to talk about it here, because this is one of few forums that I read regularly. Your enthusiasm for the products you have created is well founded, and I would imagine it is difficult to direct people to another thread when they start asking questions.

To be clear, I want to draw a line between product and marketing here. As I said, every indication is that your product is excellent. When I see a product promoted a little too aggressively by its creators, it cheapens my view of the product, if that makes sense. Think Wiggys here - how many people have sworn never to buy a Wiggys bag without ever even seeing one due to the behavior of people associated with the company? I don't want to see that happen to SO or Paradox.

Already having a nice day, but thanks for the well wishes. And a friendly GFY right back at ya.

As an aside... when did we stop giving out $1.25 with each GFY?

No worries, but thanks cwh2 for saving me the dime since I was signed up for the internet marketing school put on by the aforementioned manufacturer next week

I try to stay out of things, especially when they do not pertain to us. And honestly, I'm not a very good marketeer, however I do try to also dispel myths such as "lightest hunting pack in the world" when they are simply not true. Granted, perhaps I overstepped my bounds and got over involved in the conversation and for that I apologize. The KUIU may very well be a fantastic pack, I am not arguing that. What I am arguing is the lightest "fact". For comparisons sake lets take a Unaweep 6300 in Camo X33 with a Camo X33 Base Talon

Volume Paradox 7300 vs 6000 ?
Weight Paradox 3 lbs 7 ounces or less vs 3 lbs 9 or 10
Fabric Paradox - a mixture of 330 D Cordura XPAC forever waterproof and 500D Cordura vs 160 D Cordura

Which has better specifications ?

Granted, an Evo adds 5 to 8 ounces, but a Unaweep is still very capable. I think any manufacturer that claims the "lightest" or any other attribute that is easily measurable, does open themselves up to others injecting when it is not true. For instance, others could claim the Paradox is not the lightest , after all the Kifaru KU was lighter , and likewise, I could go bird hunting with a little cuben fiber sack thrown over my shoulder and call it a hunting pack ... but that is really pushing the limit. However, I could probably say the Paradox is the lightest pack currently available that can support a huge load and is designed to take years of abuse. That , IMO would be a fair statement.

My Paradox? Don't have one, the waistbelt did not work for me. My build suits a Kifaru/Dana type belt. The pack is very well thought out though. Besides the Kifaru KU packs, it is the first purpose-built hunter's pack that some actual thought was given to reducing weight. Kifaru's KU series was yanked off of the market PDQ due to durability issues. I don't think the Paradox will suffer the same fate.

Which Talon is this?



and here's a gillion dollar idea: Make an inflatable lumbar pad.

Maybe I'll buy you a beer someday at Chilkoot Charlie's, and some peanuts

Ever handled a Stone Glacier?

Tanner

No. I'm about done spending money on gear. Travel costs money too. The pics of the Stone Glacier looked like a Trapper Nelson to me, and I've used one of those, unfortunately.

Kifaru's Longhunter, after you get rid of that packbag and convert it to a drybag setup, and add KU stays, comes in at around five pounds. I'll carry it.

Trapper Nelson... that's kinda' funny. Oh well...

Tanner

That sounds like an interesting setup. Do you have a picture of it?

LOL. Don't go all wiggy on us, Kevin. Wow.

I'll answer the specific questions here, and then if any more need to be answered lets do it on a Paradox thread to avoid thread drift.

16Bore - That photo is of the discontinued dual zipper day talon which was offered in two sizes (1000 / 1800). The day talon differs from the other talons in that it has a stand alone harness system. It has been replaced by a simpler day talon that is a roll top with a small lid and some compression bungie. The photos on our site show a red pack, and I should have photos of more neutral colors soon. The newer talon is less expensive, and IMO just as functional if not more functional for all around use. The reason being is the larger roll top opening makes it more flexible for carrying all sorts of items, where the zippers confined things. The small lid basically replaces the shallow long pocket. The newer day talon is also less expensive, so over all I think it is a win win. It can hold more, compress better and is less expensive.

Regarding inflatable lumbar pads, I had contemplated that early on. Inflatable does carry some risk however as we tested the hipbelt, we felt that a lumbar pad simply was not needed and in fact was a detriment. Most users seem to agree, although some like a lumbar pad. The key really is that different designs function better with different execution. A static non articulating belt should have a lumbar pad IMO, but an articulating belt does not need one and it is in fact a detriment IMO. You can still get extra lumbar pressure if needed by putting some foam or pulling in compression real tight from the rear, but to my knowledge few have felt that necessary. Our belt does have tailoring in the lumbar area, which allows it to sit in the lumbar area vs a strait cut full wrap (which is most common).
In the end, IMO, certain designs lend themselves to certain things. A lumbar pad on a standard non articulating 3 piece belt is a good thing. On an articulating belt it generally creates more problems than it solves.