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RickBin Offline OP
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Hi Guys:
<br>
<br>I tried some 180-grain Sciroccos (thanks Eremicus) Tuesday out of my .30-06 AI, and found that the rifle really likes them. I only had 28, but after some very cursory load development (H4350), I shot two 200 groups in a 15-20 crosswind. The first group was 1.25" and the second was just under 2", with one flyer that I'm pretty sure was the wind (the other two would have been within the 1.25 of the first group). Velocity was very good, at 2850, and there is a lot of room for tweaking here guys. Bottom line: this rifle likes Sciroccos. I have more on the way.
<br>
<br>Now, I normally shoot Partitions, and the rifle likes them too, but at 200 yards, the Scirocco's seem to be a tad more accurate now, and maybe significantly more after some tweaking. I suspect that as ranges get out to 300-400 yards, that will continue to be the case, with the Scirocco's design.
<br>
<br>So, my question: Is the Scirocco tough enough for elk? Say a quartering-to shot at 50 yards at 2800 fps? If so, it's hard not to like this bullet as an all-arounder, except maybe for the price. Then again, they run just about what Partitions do except they come only in 100-count boxes.
<br>
<br>180 Sciroccos at 2850 ... Elk bullet?
<br>
<br>Thanks all.
<br>
<br>Rick


"What we obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly: it is dearness only that gives every thing its value. Heaven knows how to put a proper price upon its goods; and it would be strange indeed if so celestial an article as freedom should not be highly rated." Thomas Paine
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Rick,
<br>
<br> I haven't used the Scirocco's, so can't comment on their veracity either way but I will simply relate what I've been reading on other forums and from hunting buddies. The consensus seems to be that, well, maybe they would work, sometimes. [Linked Image]
<br>It seems that the Scirocco users have been very happy with them on deer, but have had unpredictable results on bigger game like Hogs and Elk. Seems that on thicker skinned game they tend to overexpand and come apart at times.
<br>If you encounter a close range shot at an Elk with magnum type velocities, this could be a problem, especially if you like to take out the shoulders like I do.
<br>
<br>So the question is, do you need the little bit of additional accuracy and disregard the NP reputation for sterling performance on big game? In my rifles, the Partitions have been just about as accurate as any other hunting bullet and have proven themselves time after time on game.
<br>Even those of us that like to tinker can't ignore that conclusion.
<br>Besides, try shooting them both at 300-400 yards and see how much real difference there really is. That might help you make your decision. If cost is a factor, I would practice with Hornadies or Speers and shoot the good stuff for hunting season. - Sheister


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The information I've picked up is they edge the NP bullet in performance. The farther out you get, the greater the difference. They have a very high BC, for instance.
<br> I know they will work. I say that because I've seen many "lessor" Nosler Partition loads work quite well on that class of critter. Under those conditions, and those types of shots.
<br> I'd go for the Barnes X. Much better weight retention. Try the 168 gr. XLC. I'd be very surprised if some kind of accurate load couldn't be found. Or the Swift-A-Frame. I know, low BC.
<br> So what ? How may animals are you going to shoot at over 300, or 400 yds ? I doubt you'd notice the difference, even at that range. I'll take bullet integrity any day over BC, or a smaller than 1.5 MOA group. I like all the edge I can get, especially in that class of critter. E

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Rick
<br>
<br>Ask Dave King (Long Range Hunting) to post or share his picture of various sectioned bullets! The scirocco has an incredibly thick jacket and very little lead. It ought to do real well if it shoots well, looks like yours does!!
<br>
<br>Mike


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Sectioning bullets doesn't tell you much. Like the hardness of the jacket, or the core.
<br> In the bonded core bullets, some of them, like the Throphy Bonded, portions of the jacket are hardend to slow down expansion.
<br> Then there is the bonding itself. Some, like the Speer Hot Core, really don't work. Others, like the Swift-A-Frame, get additional support by the rear section which bulges to support the wide mushroom of the bullet.
<br> I saw a few comments, not long ago, comparing the Barnes X to the Fail Safe. The guy thought the FS bullet would open at lower impact speeds due to it's larger opening. According to their manufactures, and some users, this isn't so. E

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Theres a good article in Octs Shooting Times comparing 17 30 cal 180 gr bullets including the Scirocco.They were fired into animal glue material at 3000fps and 2000fps,and wt. retention,expansion,penetration,and "wound" channel cavities are all charted.At the lower velocities all of the bullets retained at least 85% of there wt. with the Scirocco retaining 98%,the Partition 95%.At the higher velocities the Swift A Frame took first with 91% and the Scirocco at 68%, the same as the Nosler Partition.While it may not be the final word its one of the more illuminating test data I'v seen.And it still comes down to the last sentence of the article,"Whichever bullet you choose,remember that when it comes to killing power, that shot placement is the biggest variable of all".If you can't find a copy I'll post the charts,might do it anyway, its sure to rile a few.:)
<br>Jeff
<br>


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Here's the requested link to the sectioned bullets.
<br>
<br>http://community.webshots.com/photo/31598400/34573044qrUUwH
<br>
<br>It's not the entire story as you already know but it's more info, sometimes useful sometimes not.
<br>
<br>

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JSR That was one of the best articles I've seen in awhile, especially from the main stream Magazines....
<br>
<br>Thanks again Dave for posting the pic link.
<br>
<br>Mike


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I deer hunted with it a bit this past year, using the 180 in my M70 300 Wby at 3145 muzzle velocity. I shot a +/- 250# whitetail (live weight) as it ran across in front of me at about 40 yards. I hit it a bit too far back (nice way of saying gut shot) and it ran about 30 yards before it slowed to a stop. I shot it again at a quartering away angle. The first bullet entered just behind the ribcage and stopped against the hide on the far side. Impact velocity about 3060 fps. At first glance it looks like a textbook failure from a thin-jacketed frangible bullet (not wanting to drop a name here) with the core missing, jacket split back to the base. However, the bonding retained most of the core, although it split along with the jacket. It weighed 142 grains. The second bullet at about 75 yards entered behing the rib cage and stopped under the hide next to the brisket. It also opened dramatically and weighed 145 grains, with an impact velocity of about 2990. The next day a friend shot another buck with my rifle at about 275 yards, impact velocity about 2600. That bullet was textbook, looking like it came out of the Swift company brochure. It is, however, very rounded, unlike the sharp corners of an "X" bullet. Retained weight was in the order of 165 grains.
<br>
<br>[Linked Image];[Linked Image]
<br>
<br>The one on the left is the 40 yard shot impact, the one on the right 275 yards.
<br>
<br>In my opinion, this bullet holds together and expands viciously. Too viciously. Think about it, whitetail buck at 40 yards, 300 wby with a 180 grain bullet, broadside shot with no bone in the way, and it doesn't exit? At magnum velocities it expands too much for adequate penetration, at least I suspect it will on anything larger than deer. On deer I believe this is a good bullet (that is after all what Swift markets it as) providing muzzle velocities are kept to 2900 or less. I also firmly believe that the Hornady flat base SP performs just as well, at 1/4 the price. Just as accurate, more so in my experience.
<br>
<br>In a larger-cased 30 caliber, I see the 180 grain bullet as a do-anything type of load. With the results I obtained with the Scirocco, I would NOT be comfortable, with a mature elk or bear quartering toward me at 50 yards, of shooting that animal in the shoulder. I am concerned that the penetration would not be sufficient. That same animal broadside at 150 yards, no problem. But I don�t see it as an all-around bullet in a magnum case, useful for taking any shot as it presents itself.


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RickBin Offline OP
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Rick:
<br>
<br>Howabout in a .30-06 or .30-06 Ackley at a muzzle velocity of 2800 =/- 50. From the looks of it, that might be a much better velocity range for that 180 Scirocco.
<br>
<br>Rick


"What we obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly: it is dearness only that gives every thing its value. Heaven knows how to put a proper price upon its goods; and it would be strange indeed if so celestial an article as freedom should not be highly rated." Thomas Paine
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Rick,
<br>
<br>I haven't used it enough to be sure about this, but I suspect that 2900fps is the upper end that I'd be confident with this bullet on larger animals. I also shot a BC bull moose at about 175 yards (lung shot) and a black bear (frontal chest at 80 yards) with that load and couldn't find either bullet, although I can't knock the way the animals were dispatched. With the speeds you're talking, I'm not positive I'd feel good shooting an elk in the shoulder at close range. Mind you I haven't tried it.
<br>
<br>Two more comments: I had much better terminal results with the 165 XLC at 3380 muzzle velocity, and the 180 failsafe at 3150, than the 180 Scirocco. The 165 XLC would seem to penetrate much better than the scirocco (no big surprise there).
<br>
<br>Second comment, please realize that I'm only talking about 20 or less animals here. With that 300 I've shot 7 species of BC game, from deer to goat to bison, but after trying several different bullets I now rely on the 200 partition at 3110fps, or the 180 failsafe.
<br>
<br>With your 30-06 Ackley, I'd look hard at the 165 failsafe at about 3050 fps. If your rifle likes it, I can't think of a better all-around bullet.


Anybody who seriously concerns themselves with the adequacy of a Big 7mm for anything we hunt here short of brown bear, is a dufus. They are mostly making shidt up. Crunch! Nite-nite!

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RickF:
<br>Thanks for the nice expansion photos. I too always try to determine wound channels and recover bullets from harvested game for analysis. Unfortunately, on the one Elk I shot with a 180gr Swift Scirocco out of my .300 Wby last year, the bullet exited. The bullets launch at 3210 fps (chronoed) out of my 25" barrel and would have been traveling at about 2760 fps at the 250 yard mark, where the broadside spike tried to block that bullet with his chest. It made a nice .308" hole going in behind the front shoulder and a golf-ball sized hole going out the other side of his chest.
<br>
<br>Even if you launched these 180gr Sciroccos at 3400fps (say from a .300 RUM or .30/378), they would be traveling below 3000fps past 210 yards. The key to their performance is the plastic tip causing rapid expansion, while the bonded core prevents the bullet from becoming a frangible grenade (Aka: Ballistic tip), retaining more than enough weight to crunch onside bones and still penetrate deep.
<br>
<br>Would I choose it over a Barnes-X if the X�s shot well (.5 MOA) in one of my rifles ? In a word, "No". However, not every rifle shoots Barnes-X�s well, while the Sciroccos have been every bit as accurate as Nosler Ballistic tips (or Sierra HPBTM) in the three rifles I�ve tried them in (7mm Rem, .300 Wby, 30/378). For those Western hunters who occasionally "stretch" their barrels a little, the 180 Scirocco has a great BC and can deliver a ton of energy downrange to 540yds. I hope to have 3 more deer harvest reports this Fall, as I�m loaning the 7mm (150 gr) to a partner for Oregon�s deer season (Owyhee unit, desert and sagebrush flats) and carrying the .300 Wby for Oregon/Idaho deer. I have a box of Swift�s new 210gr Scirocco�s in .338 Caliber on order, for testing in my .340 Wby. Film at eleven .......
<br>
<br>... Silver Bullet
<br>RickB .... I�m still working on the 7mm write-up (I promise).
<br>


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