Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Africa Large Cat Caliber

A Ruger Alaskan or guide gun, with 20" barrel and in .416 Ruger, would be ideal.

In case you decide to shoot an escaped feline, worth many tens of thousands of dollars, and don't want to put up with the endless lawsuits and public condemnation for your actions, it is easier to turn the short barrel around and put in your mouth.

I'd really rather just ask the question. But when I did I knew it left a lot of room for speculation like: first post by a paranoid whacko. Or a 12 year year old.

I was really hoping to get comparative insite from people who have seen firsthand the effect of the bigger/slower vs mid bore/faster on lion.

About 5 miles from my little 30 rural acres are about 20 adult tigers, one african lion, quite a few cougars, leopards & wolfs. All behind chain link put up by amateur labor. In a canyon susceptible to flash flooding every 10 years or so. At feeding time you can watch the tigers jump high enough that their heads are above the fence.
My two young daughters play outside all day and I work outside on the property most days. I always have a firearm(s) close by just on principle, and because we're in prime cougar country, every once in a while one will kill dogs in the area or lay tracks down my drive. Plus our coyote population is out of control and city folks sometimes drive to the country and let their dogs run wild.

These guys claim 266 escapes in the U.S. since 1990:
http://bigcatrescue.org/big-cat-attacks/

Given that, and the fact that I'm going to buy another rifle anyway, it just makes sense to me to make it a suitable big cat caliber instead of a .220 Swift : )
But no I'm not expecting to be invaded by either the zombies nor the escaped captive tigers. I never expected to be inside a burning building, till one morning I was : )

J

i need more info on this, that looks like a cool project...500 or .510 bullets?

I've seriously considered a short Marlin. I handload heavy 45-70's for a Ruger #1 ao have the dies and the components.
Maybe a soft 350 gr. as fast as I could reliably drive it, just my thinking.

But what research I've done seems to fall square on the .375 bore as being the most effective. And I don't have a .375, and kind of want one.

I may end up going Marlin though.

J

I remember Ross Seyfried writing an introduction for the .378 Weatherby in one of the Nosler manuals about this very thing.

He said it left "chunks of lion clockwork..."

I too would enjoy seeing more information on that thing.

J

JTMcC, thanks for fielding my question and elaborating on the context. It gives it a little more clarity. I can definitely see your concern living near a big cat "sanctuary".

My personal limited experience with lions is that the .375 H&H loaded with a premium soft puts them down quickly, as long as the rifleman does their part.

At 15 yards, a 300 gr Partition from a 375 handload @ 2475 f/s (between the front legs at the base of the mane) knocked an adult male lion down seemingly with authority. But, he got right back up and crawled another 20 yards or so away from us. I kept shooting 'til the mag was dry, but the additional 3 rounds were likely unnecessary. A sample of one.

But having that experience, and having used a 416 Rigby on other large game, I'd be inclined to go with the 416, provided the shooter can handle it. 416 level recoil is a significant step up from a 375, IMHO.

IIRC, Harry Selby thought the Rigby was the ultimate cartridge for lion, in his considerable experience. Hard to beat that kind of recommendation.

Pete

Certainly not a expert but I would tend to agree with the 375 and not use a premium bullet. A-Square used to make a 300gr lion designed bullet. It was a very destructive fast expanding round nose soft. The other that I have read a lot about is the 250gr Sierra which is also soft and opens quickly.

My understanding is you want a bullet that is going to open real fast and dump all the energy inside the cat without exciting. Just the opposite of what premium bullets are designed for.

If you want a 375 buy one. It is an awesome cartridge with a fair amount of excellent bullets available.

I'll go out on the proverbial limb here, and assume that's sarcasm.

If not and maybe even if it is, I'll add that to my limited understanding, the (hundreds of USDA licensed) big cat "sanctuaries" are full up because there is little monetary value in adult felines in the U.S.
Cute little ones are in high demand, for some reason people love to have their picture taken with young tigers, go figure.
Reach maturity, as a tiger in the U.S., and you have little to look forward too. So, we have all of these "rescue" operations.
Add the wealthy jerks who want a cub as a pet but can't deal with the adolescent felines deadly nature.
It's evidently the same in wolf land. Seems like a great idea, then goes south. Look for a rescue operation to bail them out.
The one local to me holds fundraisers fairly often, just to pay for the large amount of feed they go through. Admission prices are also high. They go thru a lot of meat in a month.
So even with my weak understanding of commercial tiger pricing I'm pretty sure that if they could sell one for "many tens of thousands of dollars", they wouldn't be regularly begging for money to feed those tremendous cats.

And like most here I recon, anything threatening the life of me and mine, is subject to lethal intervention. In my part of the world there would be public aclaim, no condemnation and when the Little Ones are in danger, I fear no lawsuit.
There are things worth killing for, worth dying for, and worth doing prison time for. My Family meets all 3 of those criteria.
Not being the suicidal type, I'll pass. But if I was there are a rediculous number of handguns around here that would be much more practical than a 20" Ruger bolt gun : )

J


I'll add that my knowledge is limited here. Correct me if I'm wrong. But when they move in next to you, you might do a bit of research as well.

And thanks to all who responded, it's been helpful.

Bullets are .500...

All work was completed by SSK Industries they own the reamers for the B&M line of cartridges. Usually they put a 16.5" barrel on the 50 B&M Super Short, I had a 18.5/8" barrel put on it to make it legal to take to Canada.

With a Cutting Edge 375 gr. Solid at 2200fps I wouldn't hesitate to to use it on a bull elephant.

Here's a link to the B&M web site: http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html

damn was hoping 510 but i can understand why they went with 500 with the short package....looking at something like that ild kinda want to be able to use cast bullets intended for the 50 cal Sharps rounds.....but thats just me.....neat package and concept, would love to get my hands on it and put a few rounds down range....

That there's a neat rifle, and, a neat website. They certainly have some stupendous wood on display.

J

FWIW...the guy who has probably shot more trophy lions than anyone alive has used a 375 RUM (3002750ish, IIRC) on most of them.

Last year I followed the vultures in to three problem lion kills and I thought the 3/8" hole in the end of my 375H&H looked awfully small! These lions were just out of a park and I had been warned they didn't have any real fear of humans...especially when humans disturbed their dinner!

Next time I will take a 416 Remington or maybe the 375 Weatherby (3002700ish) I just built.

If you can stomach the Ruger, I'm sure it would work also.

The only Ruger rifle I own is a 40 year old #1, it's a pretty nice piece of equipment but single shot. I've never owned a Ruger bolt. Are you trying to tell me something about current Ruger bolt guns?

My bolt rifles span from a '42 Lithgow SMLE to late 50's Winchester M70's to late 80's Remington 700's. Not a lot of personal experience with bolt guns made since then.

In my limited understanding, most large cats don't drop for good after one shot regardless of caliber. That may be a placement issue but doesn't appear to be, that's the kind of information I'd be interested in.

I've found scant little .416 info on lion. Everyone seems to consider the .375 optimal. Feel free to input anything you might know. It's all helpful to me.

J

I realize that it's a 500 pound cat but maybe a 30 06 or a 300 win mag? I'm voting 300 win mag here.

My limited personal experience is limited to two lions. Both shot with a .375 H&H loaded with 300gr. TBBC

One at 14 yards, the other around 30 yards. First cat flopped a couple times like a fish out of water and expired quickly.

Second one jumped a couple feet into the air and twisted upon impact. She came down and made a beeline for me but stumbled and dropped after going 10-12 yards. Another bullet was put into for good measure.

Both cats shot behind the shoulder.

Well I've got enough 30-06's to outlast my (future) great-grandchildren I figure, as it should be.
I looked a bit at the Browning .338 mag autoloader. The .300 mags just don't trip my trigger for whatever reason, my uncle used them on everything tho.
A new(or used) rifle is brewing in the works, and I have nothing between 30-06 and 45-70, so....... there ya go : )
A medium to big bore is welcome here, just figuring which one.

I'm "almost" stuck on .375, unless I learn that .416 or .458 are better medicine for my purposes. But my trusty 30-06's stand at the ready. I appreciate all input.
I need to research .416 ballistics a bit I guess.

j

can't be that hard to kill ...Wikipedia says that they are now threatened

take a look at the AR platform with something like the 50 cal Beowulf or 458 SOCOM! Either one would offer plenty of HP for your intended need.