Home Forums Hunting & Shooting General Big Game When did the Speer Grand Slam change??

I've never used them but I always read that the Speer GS was a two core bullet with the bottom half harder and the top half softer and a locking ring. Even my latest catalogs still give that description. But from listening to you guys and looking on the Speer website, the GS is now just a heavy jacket Hot Core with a flat nose. No two core or locking ring. When did they change and do they have an advantage over the plain Hot Core beside the heavier jacket?

Not sure when the Grand Slams changed, but I have used them since the early 80's with no complaints.

These days, however, I see little reason to use them given the inexpensive nature of true bonded-core bullets like the Accubond and InterBond. My own choice for hunting has become even sturdier bullets - the North Fork, A-Frame and TSX. I am still shooting up my supply of Grand Slams, but these days the target is paper or steel.

It must have been recently (last couple years) and it must have been done quietly because I don't remember reading or hearing anything about it.

I have used the Grand Slams frequently in my .280, both in 145gr. and 160 gr. weights. This was in the Speer Nitrex loaded ammo, so I don't know if that is the old version or the new version. Good results on deer sized game, usually with a exit on most any angle

I think the redesign happened around the time Speer cancelled the Nitrex ammunition. My Nitrex ammo (.375 H&H and .308 Win) used the original Grand Slam bullets.

Speer has also changed the materials used in the Trophy Bonded bullet to make it cheaper to manufacture. (Reference: Gun Digest 2006, Tom Turpin & Terry Wieland,Putting Bullets Through Their Paces: Premium Bullet Performance, pp 62ff). The result is a less effective bullet according to Tom and Terry and some Afrifcan correspondents.

jim

I'll admit I'm not as up-to-date as some, but I didn't hear of a change. Now Speer literature says that Grand Slams in 6mm and .257 caliber, and maybe .264 do not have the dual core. They say because of the small diameter only a thicker jacket is needed. But last I heard every other Grand Slam has the dual core - don't know...

That's what I thought too but I heard some guys on the board talking about the "old" and the "new" GS and how they changed so I looked it up on the Speer web site. There is no more mention of dual core for either small or larger caliber. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
Look it up.
http://www.speer-bullets.com/default.asp?s1=3&s2=7&s3=19

I should have looked a little more on the Speer web site <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />. This is what I found in the FAQ:

Q.
Grand Slam used to have two cores. Now it has one. Why?

A.
Changes in raw materials beyond our control made it hard for us to maintain the previous bond we had between the front and rear cores. We tested alternatives extensively, and found that the single, ternary-alloy core gave better accuracy and increased retained weights by an average of 14 percent.

Changes in raw materials? Maybe they've made a change in elemental lead to make it more environmentally friendly.

Dick

While I have been a Grand Slam user for may years, I�ve switched to other bullets - notably the North Fork. I also load TSX�s and A-Frames n my hunting loads but have yet to take any game with them.

The last Grand Slam I took apart had an air pocket next to the jacket. There is no way this can help accuracy. Pouring the core in a single step rather than two probably reduces the chances of such an occurrence, making for a better bullet.


At the end of the day, though, I think the Grand Slams have probably reached about the end of their life as a �Premium� bullet, and I�ve always considered them a �semi-premium� anyway. Today�s offering of relatively inexpensive AccuBond and InterBond bullets makes me question the future of the Grand Slams. I suspect that Speer will come out with a true bonded core bullet similar to the AB�s and IB�s and comparably priced and the Grand Slams will disappear.

I found out about the change in the Grand Slam from my friend John Haviland, who did a factory tour at Speer maybe 1-1/2 years ago and saw them injecting molten lead into the jackets, the lead all coming from the same spout. He asked and they told him about the change, but wasn't told exactly when it happened.

After being informed of this, I bought a box of 200-grain .30's from a local store, loaded them in a .300 Winchester Magnum with my standard charge of RL-22, and shot them into dry newspaper at 50 yards. This is my standard test for really stressing bullets; have found that it simulates hitting heavy bone pretty closely. Muzzle velocity was 2900+.

Three out of the five bullets tested did just fine. One totally lost its core, another lost almost all the core. So I have quit using GS's. As several have said here, there are better solutions today.

As a side note, I haven't had any trouble with the new Trophy Bonded bullets, either on game or in testing. In fact, I think they're a little better than the old bullets. They open up to a more flat frontal mushroom, which cuts tissue better than the older rounded front, don't foul barrels as much, and are in general more accurate--though not always. The solid shank can cause problems in some barrels, just as it did with the Barnes X for so many years.

I must also note that after reading the bullet test articles in GUN DIGEST by my old friends Tom and Terry, I found so many holes in them that I would suggest they are examples of how NOT to do bullet tests. For one thing, neither apparently tested the Nosler Partition (the standard of all expanding big game bullets) alongside any of the newer ones.

The biggest problem with Terry's piece was his prejudices that all big game bullets should act just like the original Trophy Bonded Bear Claws. Add to that the fact that he did minimal testing on many bullets, and has never shot game with some he did test, made the results suspect.

He was also dead wrong about many things. The major factor in bullet penetration is NOT weight retention, but frontal area. And impact velocity very often does have a major effect on penetration, especially in bullets that do not open widely.

MD

MD,

Thanks for wading in on this one.

Are you using Richard Mann's Test Tube also? And is it hard, soft or middle of the road on bullets?

jim

JB, All,

I was surfing tthrough the campfire this morning before packing my ditty bag to head for Africa, when I came across this thread on the Speer Grand Slam bullet. Somehow, the pieces that Terry Wieland and I did for the 2006 Gun Digest came up. Pal JB took some exception to our stories.

I won't speak for Terry, but will clarify what I tried to do in my piece. As I stated in the story, I wanted to determine the accuracy, penetration, and weight retention of the test bullets. I further stated that the test would be conducted using an assortment of mostly newly available bonded-core bullets and a couple monolithic bullets. The Nosler Partition was not tested for two reasons. Reason 1 is that it is neither a bonded-core nor a monolithic solid bullet. Reason 2, and more importantly to me anyway, the performance of the Nosler Partition bullet is so well-known and so consistent, it would be redundant to mention it again.

I further stated "that my results are just that, results of a limited test that, at best, gives an idea of how each bullet might perform in the field." I emphasize the words "idea" and "might."

I just re-read the piece again, and, I believe it accomplishes what I set out to do. Whether what I tried to accomplish satisfies every reader's expectation of what it should have contained --that is another question.

Tom

I agree with what you guys said about the GS being a "semi premium" and that there's a lot of better bullet out there with all the new bonded bullets. I brought this up as a continuation of my other thread on .35 Whelen bullet for moose.

Some said that regular Speer HC and Hornady would be fine and that premium aren't necessary at Whelen's velocity. Others said go with the best. So I was thinking of going somewhere in the middle. Since there is no bonded .35 bullet yet you have to either go with regular cup and core (Speer & Hornday) or with premium at $1+ (Partition, TSX, A-Frame). That where I was thinking tha the GS might be a good option. They would be a step up the regular cup & core wouldn't they with their thicker jacket?

BCSteve,

One to consider:

NORMA 35 (.358") 250gr SP BULLET ORYX BONDED
Price: US $50.99 -- 100/box
Availability: In stock at http://www.grafs.com/

Not cheap, but around $.50 per bullet isn't too bad. They're about the same price as the Speer Gand Slams (going by Midway's and Graf's prices. US $23.49 - $24.99 per box of 50). Of course, I don't know about the availablity or price of the Norma bullets in Canada

Product description from Norma's web site:
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Since the introduction of Oryx in 1996, it has become the top of our line. All over the world, it has won acclaim for its performance. To perform in varied hunting situations Oryx is designed with a core bonded to the jacket. The bullet still expands rapidly, but the bonding prevents a separation of the jacket from the core. This allows the bullet to penetrate deep into game to reach the vital organs. The Oryx is unsurpassed in its design. It is suitable for many types of game such as deer, stag, moose, wild boar and black bear.


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I've never used Norma Oryx bullets so I can't speak from experience about them..

-Bob F.

Tom--

Actually, I had the real problems with Terry's story. It was obvious that he approached it with extreme prejudice, and also said some things that were absolutely not true.

In yours I just wish you'd done more side-by-side testing of the same bullet weight/diameter, so we could compare more apples to apples. Which is the reason I wish the Partition has been in there as well. Since the performance is so well known, we would have had a base-line to compare to the other bullets.

Your piece was overall very good; having Terry's be the second half left me with more objections than I should have had.

John

It seems the GS is somewhat old and stodgy nowadays, with all the great bullets available and all, and its demise is being predicted. However, another way to look at it is that it is the best cup and core bullet available for tough shots. It may be "only a semi-premium," but it's pretty darn good in my experience.

Bob & shooters,

I have used the Norma Oryx .308/180 gr as loaded in their .308 Win ammo. I took this ammo to Africa in '01 for a hunt in Zimbabwe. I shot a bunch of leopard bait, and a fairly large wart hog. Everything exited, but from checking the entrance and exit holes I figured that the bulets would give good penetration on larger plains game.

I know a gent who used them in his 9.3, and reported similar results. Norma also has some hunter reports on their website.

I think all their Oryx bullets are semi-spitzer with flat meplats.

jim

MD,

Given the results of your test on the "new" GS, is there really any reason to use them over regular Speer Hot Cores? I was thinking of the 250 gr. GS for my .35 Whelen, but maybe I will get just as good a result with the standard 250 gr. slug and save a few bucks to boot.

I have also been using the Speer Hot Core 145 gr. 7mm in my 7mm-08, now I am also not sure of the need to go to the Grand Slam for that rifle either.