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Hell, Nevada is a one of a kind state, with approximately 86% of the state's land owned by various jurisdictions of the U.S. federal government, both civilian and military.

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Originally Posted by isaac
His elementary understanding of the constitution and related Articles always has him stumbling,especially when it pertains to nuanced issues which requires further study, such as land ceded to the US, much like this BLM land in Nevada.

Link him a copy of essay 43 of the Federalist Papers and invite him to educate himself.


I just wonder if he knows what an amendment is...


"Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." - John Adams

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Things are getting "real" with this situation.

The family has sent out a call for help.

People from all over the country are headed to Nevada.

https://www.facebook.com/support.cliven.bundy?ref=stream


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No they're not. Most articles I've read were against his actions and one new's reporter stated he went to one of the so-called rallies and no one showed up.


The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails.
William Arthur Ward




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Yeah, we can all trust the liberal media to give the facts....Right? wink


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So, you consider the fact that you MIGHT hunt and/or fish there again of greater importance than the economic well being of those who live there?


Yep. Guess I'm a bit selfish when it comes to irreversible economic/environmental damage.

This from another thread today

Quote
Kennecott�s parent company, Rio Tinto, is pulling out of a proposed copper mine in southwest Alaska that sparked strong opposition because of the environmental harm it could cause in salmon-rich Bristol Bay.

The London-based multinational company announced Monday it will donate its majority interest in the Pebble Project � a 19.1 percent shareholding � to two charitable organizations in Alaska.

Rio Tinto�s withdrawal is another major blow to what would have been a massive open-pit copper, gold and molybdenum mine on an isolated bay that produces nearly 50 percent of the world�s wild sockeye salmon, supporting 14,000 full- and part-time jobs.


Good news indeed.


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You wouldn't believe what my uncle went through trying to protect his land on Utah lake from the EPA. They didn't realize that he had the money and will to fight them over it.

The EPA ordered him to clean up a dike on his land that had been there long before he purchased it. It got so bad that they pad locked his gate saying it was government property and arrested him for going in to feed his bison. He was released on bail and then got a call in the middle of the night from a federal agent that didn't agree with what was going on who warned him that they had snipers in place with orders to shoot him if he so much as made a threatening gesture. He said they agents were really wanting to just "take him out" and were trying to set him up to do it.

This anonymous caller said that an environmental group with ties to the Clinton administration was pushing for it because they wanted his property for a refuge.

They said he violated the wet lands protection act because he dumped some dirt on a dike that that had been in place since before he owned the land claiming he reinforced the dike. He had a federal permit issued in 1991 allowing him to reinforce the existing dike. The said dike was well behind the property line on his deed and deeded as dry land and he had not seen water anywhere near it the whole time he owned the land.

The EPA claimed his actions threatened the June sucker, an endangered fish, and that the land was "located in the area of a recorded prehistoric site used by Native Americans." What in this country isn't. They could use that excuse to take anyone's land.

They went so far as to fine him over 1 Billion in fines and then started to seize his other assets. He finally beat the wetlands violations in court but was convicted on federal charges for disobeying their orders and going on his own land. The governor of Utah later pardoned him. The government seized his land under false pretense and then prosecuted him for his actions related to that seizure.

Basically they seized his land without a trial and then prosecuted him for going on his own land. He told me he could not believe how dirty and corrupt the agency was and how thug like most of their agents were. He said it scared him for the future of the country. He said the government can just change laws and then bully anyone off their land.

Most of this happened around 2000 and it might have not stopped if Gore would have been elected.

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THAT, sir, is one scary story..


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Originally Posted by CrowRifle
http://www.infowars.com/federal-snipers-train-guns-on-family-for-filming-cattle/

Quote
Federal Snipers Train Guns on Family For Filming Cattle

Man arrested for expressing free speech outside of designated �First Amendment Area�
Paul Joseph Watson
Infowars.com
April 7, 2014
Federal snipers with the Bureau of Land Management (BLM) trained guns on members of a family yesterday after they dared to stop and take video footage of cattle outside the bounds of a designated �First Amendment Area,� before arresting one of the men for non-compliance.

Image: Sniper Training (YouTube).
The cattle were being rounded up by BLM officers as part of a crackdown on Nevada rancher Cliven Bundy, who has refused to pay �grazing fees� demanded by the feds as a result of a re-classification of 600,000 acres of federal land in northeastern Clark County which Bundy claims has been in his family for generations.
Some fear the dispute could turn into a Ruby Ridge-style violent standoff because Bundy has said he is prepared to become a martyr for what he perceives as a constitutional stance against tyranny.
As we reported earlier, the feds have now started rounding up Bundy�s cattle in the name of protecting a supposedly endangered species, the desert tortoise, forbidding Bundy from interfering or even entering the vast area. The case is quickly turning into another iconic battle between big government and a besieged family.
Fears that the confrontation may turn violent and concerns that Bundy is drawing increased support from liberty activists and the local community prompted the feds to tape off two ridiculous �First Amendment Areas,� outside of which free speech in support of Bundy is banned. A sign placed inside the area reads �Welcome to Amerika � Wake Up� alongside a hammer and sickle logo.
When Bundy�s family members violated that rule yesterday in an attempt to peacefully document the cattle roundup, they were met with a barrage of loudspeaker warnings and four BLM snipers with their guns trained on the dissenters.
�Several members of the family had gone out for a drive in several vehicles to try to monitor the ongoing federal action to remove their father�s cattle from the range,� reports the Moapa Valley Progress. �They were not travelling on recently restricted federal land, but were travelling along the state highway looking north across the valley for signs of cattle, Ryan Bundy said.�
�He was doing nothing but standing there and filming the landscape,� Bundy said of his brother Dave. �We were on the state highway, not even off of the right-of-way. Even if they want to call [the area that we were filming] federal land; which it�s not; we weren�t even on it. We were on the road.�

Image: BLM �First Amendment Area� (YouTube).
None of the family members were armed, but as soon as Dave Bundy began filming the cattle in the distance, 11 BLM vehicles each with two agents arrived and surrounded him.
�They also had four snipers on the hill above us all trained on us. We were doing nothing besides filming the area,� said Ryan Bundy.
The family were told to leave the area via loudspeaker because they had violated the crudely established �First Amendment Area�.
�They said that we had no first amendment rights except for up by the bridge where they had established an area for that,� Bundy said.
When Dave Bundy didn�t immediately heed the warning and return to his vehicle, a dog was set on him and he was subsequently arrested.
�He was filming and talking on the phone, I don�t know to whom,� Ryan Bundy said. �It happened pretty fast. They came down on him hard and had a German Shepherd on him. And then they took him.�
When Dave Bundy�s father Cliven attempted to contact emergency response in both Mesquite and for Metro in an attempt to discover the whereabouts of his son, he was told to, �get off the phone or he would be arrested,� according to Ryan Bundy.
Should the Bundy case escalate any further, what has up to this point remained a largely local news story threatens to explode into a national controversy � re-igniting resentment over big government and a federal bureaucracy increasingly trampling on the rights of the American people to be left alone.
This gov't is SO out of control..

Filming? And feds draw guns on 'em?? What BS...


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Originally Posted by rockinbbar
Not hardly.

The exercise of eminent domain is for taking private property for the good of the public WITH due process.

In other words, it has to be condemned and judged and accepted as for "the public good". Then, fair compensation must be made.


Here's a question for the legal scholars. What if the govt. doesn't need to condemn the land or exercise eminent domain; it just negotiates a fair price with the landowner and purchases the land?

That is still happening today.



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Originally Posted by smokepole
If you can show me where it's prohibited.......


Article 1, section 8:
To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of particular States, and the Acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings;

Combined with the tenth amendment, which prohibits the congress from doing things not specifically authorized.

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Originally Posted by Redneck
THAT, sir, is one scary story..


And a familiar story to all westerners!
Research White Sands Missile Range, and .gov's promise to return it to the landowners after WW2.

Thoughts differ widely between easterners (where nearly all land is private) - and westerners (where various govt. entities own from 70 - 90% of the land - and want to control the rest)

Mark


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Originally Posted by mark shubert
Originally Posted by Redneck
THAT, sir, is one scary story..


And a familiar story to all westerners!
Research White Sands Missile Range, and .gov's promise to return it to the landowners after WW2.

Thoughts differ widely between easterners (where nearly all land is private) - and westerners (where various govt. entities own from 70 - 90% of the land - and want to control the rest)

Mark


I've honestly and somewhat sadly come to the realization that , fine folks though they may well be, those who have never LIVED, and worked in constant concern for the sanctity of their property or water rights will FAIL to perceive the realities of just what the situation here in the West is.

It's a headshaker at times, ain't it ? frown

..........BLM "SWAT" teams,......WTF, over

GTC


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Ive often wondered Gregg, what will the outcome be when some govt truck pulls up to our privately owned properties here in Arizona, and demands to place a meter on our private wells?
Might be a lot more folks in the "crosshairs" of the govt troops I suspect?

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Originally Posted by JefeMojado
Ive often wondered Gregg, what will the outcome be when some govt truck pulls up to our privately owned properties here in Arizona, and demands to place a meter on our private wells?
Might be a lot more folks in the "crosshairs" of the govt troops I suspect?
Methinks there needs to be another, equally adjusted, set of 'crosshairs' pointin' right back at 'em...from other, say, 'grassy knolls'.. IYGMD


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Gregg...help me understand how under any semblance of reality this Bundy rancher could actually believe he owned this land.

2 Federal courts have stated his position is absurd. He never paid any inheritance tax for this land; he simply had to pay grazing fees and he wouldn't pay them.

If the Feds could lose here, which isn't a possibility, how about every rancher moving his cattle to this public land?

The Feds own the land. They have since the middle 1800s.

It's Bundy's land over my land how?


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Originally Posted by isaac
Gregg...help me understand how under any semblance of reality this Bundy rancher could actually believe he owned this land.

2 Federal courts have stated his position is absurd. He never paid any inheritance tax for this land; he simply had to pay grazing fees and he wouldn't pay them.

If the Feds could lose here, which isn't a possibility, how about every rancher moving his cattle to this public land?

The Feds own the land. They have since the middle 1800s.

It's Bundy's land over my land how?


Good question. Simple grazing rights do not equate to ownership of public land, an argument I've had to make on a couple of occasions while hunting public land where I had every right to be and to hunt upon legally, only to be harrassed by some idiot who behaved as though he owned the land. That dog won't hunt...


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Originally Posted by Esox357
It's this thinking that causes people to be divided instead of united.


One of the main tenets of communism. Keep the people stirred up with divisive, meaningless issues so they will never come together for a common cause.


Throttle fixes everything. If it doesn't fix the problem, it’ll end the suspense.
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Originally Posted by isaac
Gregg...help me understand how under any semblance of reality this Bundy rancher could actually believe he owned this land.

2 Federal courts have stated his position is absurd. He never paid any inheritance tax for this land; he simply had to pay grazing fees and he wouldn't pay them.

If the Feds could lose here, which isn't a possibility, how about every rancher moving his cattle to this public land?

The Feds own the land. They have since the middle 1800s.

It's Bundy's land over my land how?


I'll say it again,......there are folks INCAPABLE of "Understanding" the way that a Westerner views this situation, and MANY others like it.

TOTALLY phuggin' INCAPABLE.

As well, there are those of us who don't see much authentic AMERICAN content in the recent decisions of your "Federal Courts".

I'm not going to waste my time or breath,.....

GTC


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Originally Posted by crossfireoops


I'll say it again,......there are folks INCAPABLE of "Understanding" the way that a Westerner views this situation, and MANY others like it.

TOTALLY phuggin' INCAPABLE.

GTC
You have a point to some degree - but most of it is rooted in simple inexperience with the west.. People CAN understand it, but they have to BE THERE to do so..

I'm probably not stating it well. Wife's relatives in MT have schooled me a bit. Their father was a former MT state Sen and a landowner of square MILES, not just mere 'acres'.. Water rights are indeed something we, in other parts of the country, have little experience in..

Time for me to shut up.. laugh laugh


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