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ihookem Offline OP
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I am wondering about his actions lately and wonder what some of you over there think of what is going on. This may see like a no brained stupid question but I only hear what our brain dead media tells us. Do Ukrainians have personal firearms for protection? I am hoping they could at least shoot back if they needed to protect their family. Any opinoins would be respected.


But the fruits of the spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness,faithfulness, Gentleness and self control. Against such things there is no law. Galations 5: 22&23
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I think they are too scared to answer. eek They live a whole lot closer to Russia than us. grin

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ihookem Offline OP
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I was thinking the same.


But the fruits of the spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness,faithfulness, Gentleness and self control. Against such things there is no law. Galations 5: 22&23
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From what I've read in "The Economist", Western Europe trade with Russia is in the hundreds of billions of euros. Even the UK would be affected by trade sanctions. In Germany 300,000 jobs could be lost. So you won't see too many harsh sanctions coming from them. Don't forget all of the energy that Russia sells them.

The old Soviet Block countries in Eastern Europe are obviously concerned. Will it be the Ukraine today and Poland or Czechoslovakia tomorrow? A close friend that I deer hunt with has family in Poland and they are very concerned. They would welcome more American or NATO involvement within their boarders.

I know a lady at church (Orthodox Christian) who's originally from Eastern Ukraine. Many in the eastern part of the country dislike the Western Ukrainians and are more Russian by language,culture and religion (Orthodox). Eastern Ukrainians tend to be Roman Catholic and speak Ukrainian and not Russian. The distrust between the two sides go all the way back to WWII. Apparently the Eastern Ukrainians fought with the Nazis against the Western Ukrainians that fought with the Soviets.
So even that becomes more complicated.

The lady at church has a sister that lives in Crimea and voted for Russian annexation. Better pay, healthcare and pension. The presidents in Kiev have also been seen as corrupt. They've been enriched while their countrymen have struggled.

Geopolitics is never as simple as the US or the Russian press make it sound.

Dan

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ihookem Offline OP
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Good post and don't hear that stuff on the news.


But the fruits of the spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness,faithfulness, Gentleness and self control. Against such things there is no law. Galations 5: 22&23
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Ive done some interesting reading lately that says Putin is just resisting the neo -Bolshevik, (which came out of Russia - and Churchill loathed and railed against) Big bank, neocon jewish attempts to further dominate and bring about the Zionist goal of domination and submission by monetary world domination.

I dont know what to believe.

But there are hints of sinister plans at work, but the desemination of all the misinformation keeps common working folks like us from seeing through the fog. Were to worried about daily living.


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Putin is a megalomaniac.

Russia does have some security concerns. Their only warm water port for their navy that gives them access to the Mediterranean is in Crimea.

They also have most of their natural gas lines that feed Europe pass through Ukraine. This is where Russia's wealth comes from. So I guess one may be able to understand why Putin would want to have a puppet president in Ukraine that he could control and not a president whose loyalty is with the West.

Putin is still a thug though...and there have been many comparisons to his actions and some of the events that lead to WWI.

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Originally Posted by Dantheman
Putin is a megalomaniac.

Russia does have some security concerns. Their only warm water port for their navy that gives them access to the Mediterranean is in Crimea.

They also have most of their natural gas lines that feed Europe pass through Ukraine. This is where Russia's wealth comes from. So I guess one may be able to understand why Putin would want to have a puppet president in Ukraine that he could control and not a president whose loyalty is with the West.

Putin is still a thug though...and there have been many comparisons to his actions and some of the events that lead to WWI.

Dan


So what about your Government putting troops on foreign land and installing favourable bureaucracy, heck my Government is complicit as well.

Putin is dangerous, but so are your lot.


These are my opinions, feel free to disagree.
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Putin isn't installing a favorable, friendly government. Putin is taking the land and keeping it under the Russian flag. Annexation. He's doing this because many of his people are unhappy with his puppet president whom they forced out of office.

So if Putin can't have the Ukrainian president that he wants then he will waltz into the Ukraine, annex it as part of Russia and the he as President of Russia will control the country, the people and natural resources.

Big difference between his actions and some of the previous actions of my country.

Dan


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And the ordinary Russian remembers that Russia has been invaded by foreigners so many times--Swedes, French, "Allies," Germans, and more, so he is a little paranoid about NATO getting closer to the borders. And of course living under the Tsar and then the Reds kept the culture of paranoia "alive and well." And Putin plays that like a fiddle.

I agree with Dan that "The Economist," whatever you think of its overall politics, is about the most objective source of European news available to the average reader. And yeah, as my old boss used to say "Nothing is EVER simple."


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Dan:

Who said that Vladimir isn't installing a favorable and friendly policy and representation for the residents of Crim? Did the residents of Crim say that [in the majority] or did the West say that? And besides, President Putin hasn't planned to and isn't going to annex any other portion of UKR, or even any other former Bloc country. Lord knows that the majority of citizens in Moldova and Belarusia would love to be annexed, but that's not going to happen. Lots of paranoia in the West, along with its associated propaganda. I don't entirely agree with President Putin's politics and/or policies, but you got to hand it to him, he does stand-up for those who prefer his leadership. He's got salt, that's for sure. It's something very lacking in the West, nowadays. Anyway ......

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I think that "The Economist" is even pretty objective of our politics too. There isn't any liberal or conservative spin in it's reporting which I find refreshing. It's a much different view compared to the pandering we see within our own news sources.

I can't begin to tell you about the in depth reporting over the last couple of years that "The Economist" has done on our natural gas exploration and the overall energy economy within the US. No one news source in the US is reporting the transformation that fracking is having on our economy like this UK publication has.

They had an angle on the XL pipeline that was eye opening to say the least.

Dan


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Crimea is now Russia. The citizens will have the same representation as the other Russian citizens.

...and I respectfully disagree about Putin's plan for annexing any further portions of the Ukraine. I believe he is testing the waters in Eastern Ukraine right now. Crimea was easy because the people were more ethnic Russian by language and culture. Eastern Ukraine certainly leans more in that direction than Western Ukraine but there is still some pride and nationalism present amongst it's citizenry. Putin is more than likely calculating whether Russian troops will be welcomed as hero's or treated as invaders if he decides to cross the boarder.

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Hi, Dan.

Yes, I'm fully aware of what occurred at Crim and what's currently happening at Crim and what the political affiliation has been and now is, officially. It's been a long time coming, actually. The residents of Crim are quite relieved because of it and it's about time they received their just due. They've been waiting long, long time. Anyway, this is an interesting thread. Criticism and debate are good things.

Mav

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I don't care whether you support what Putin is doing, or isn't...

but you can't deny, that he is doing what is best for the interest of Russia, over what satisfies world politically correct opinion from everyone else...

compare that with the Wet Noodle we have in our White House...
who is busy being on his knees blowing just about every foreign leader in the world....and then spreading America's Buttcheeks and inviting anyone and everyone to plug into it any time they feel the need....

what should our nation's priorities be? whats best for us or busy kissing ass of everyone else in the world, and ending up taking it in the keester on a daily basis?

even most of the people in this administration are selling out our nation, if they can milk it into a personal gain...
oh Like Eric Holder comes immediately to mind...the Mexican Drug Lords' best buddy...


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