Wipeout is like shaving cream that sits in the barrel and eats copper. No fuss, no muss. Kroil is an industrial lubricant that cleans like a mofo.
I Wipeout, then Kroil, maybe JB, then Kroil again, then denatured alcohol, then forget about cleaning for awhile and sling moly. Some guys hate moly, some love it. Once the moly is laid down and you might need to clean, its a Kroil show. Reseason with about 10 rounds and worry about cleaning at a later date.
My experience without moly was that I got to lug cleaning crap to the range and monkey with it. With it, I don't have to mess around. I saw accuracy drop off a lot quicker. Screw cleaning every 20 rounds. Ain't no BR guy.....
Goggle Fu "Berger Moly Cleaning" and you'll see the routine, sans the wipeout.
Get a 25 cent conical rubber plug from the hardware store - heck, get 2, that's a lifetime supply.
Stick the plug in the chamber, tap it in tight with a cleaning rod. Squirt about 3-4 eye dropper's full of Montana Extreme in the muzzle. Take a square of plastic grocery bag and attach it to the muzzle with a rubber band. Turn the muzzle up, then down, then up, then down to coat the bore. Lay the rifle on a level surface and walk away.
Come back several hours later. Remove the grocery bag from the muzzle and pour out the now blue liquid. Carefully run a cleaning rod in from the muzzle to tap out the plug. Run 2 dry patches through the bore from the chamber end to dry the rest of the bore cleaner. If you feel like it, run a patch with some lighter fluid or alcohol on it to completely degrease the bore, or not. Run an oily patch through the bore and you're done.
If the rifle is a real fouler, look at the muzzle in a good light after cleaning as above. If you see streaks of copper (very rare) apply Montana Extreme Copper Killer as described above in place of the Bore Cleaner.
If you had to use the Copper Killer then when you're done apply Dyna Bore Coat once. Then put the Copper Killer away, never to be used again - at least not on that rifle.
FWIW, I use the Bore Cleaner about every 300-400 rounds whether the rifle needs it or not, I'm real particular about that...
Gunnery, gunnery, gunnery. Hit the target, all else is twaddle!
I had a rifle that copper fouled bad anyhow used my usual gunslick foam let it set nothing wouldnt put a dent in the copper. I go 2-3 days scrubbing with it, switched to another gunslick product the liquid copper remover and brushes [bleep] still 2-3 days of cleaning. So bought some montana extreme bore paste and liquid bore cleaner. Holy smokes talk about fumes i would be out in the garage scrubbing with this stuff my wife come out go whew it stinks and go back inside. That stuff worked ok, so i switched to sweets that stuff stank just as bad as montana extreme stuff and it worked ok. Then i went with barnes cr-10 it stank as well didnt work very well. Then i read about wipeout tried the foam stuff and wow it worked no brushes. Then i found wipe out liquid accelerator and liquid wipe out use them both. So for me the wipe out products oh and they dont stink i clean my rifle in the house and not get high on ammonia!
Originally Posted by Bricktop
Then STFU. The rest of your statement is superflous bullshit with no real bearing on this discussion other than to massage your own ego.
The Montana cleaners will definitely remove your nose hairs! That's why I plug the breech and seal the muzzle, no stink. When you pour it out there is a little smell but it's not strong at all. I am speculating here but figure that the ammonia is combined with the copper or whatever the volatile stuff is has been mostly neutralized.
I have not used a brass or nylon brush in ages.
Gunnery, gunnery, gunnery. Hit the target, all else is twaddle!
Boretech eliminator. One of my 1000 BR friends swore by it and suggested I try it. Very impressed with the product.
It is not harmful to the steel. In fact in their instructions they suggest leaving some in the bore during storage. Try that with CR-10 or Sweets and you will have an ammonia etched bore.
Clean with Bitches Bore Shine, then shoot Wipe Out in it and you'll see it don't hold a candle....
Its the easiest gig on the market. Smells like aqua velva. I put about 12" of clear fuel line hose on the spout, push it to the "neck" of the chamber and give it just enough to foam out the muzzle. Come back later and run patches. Easy peasy.
smokepole; Top of the morning to you sir, I trust this finds you and yours well on this still spring morning.
If you or anyone else is so inclined what is your preferred method of application of Wipeout?
I'm guessing it's done with the rifle horizontal?
Is there a time frame you leave it in for a normal barrel?
Does it remove finish on say a painted stock?
Based upon threads such as this one, I sprang the $21 for a can at the local annual gun show yesterday morning.
I must confess up front here that I've not so much as read the can instructions either, just dropped it into the bag with the couple of old Bushnell straight tube scopes I'd found that called me and brought it home.
Thanks in advance for any advice and all the best to you and yours this Sunday.
Dwayne
Last edited by BC30cal; 04/13/14. Reason: added info
Top of the morning to you too, Dwayne. I hope you and yours are doing well also. It's snowing here!
I use wipeout mostly for removal of copper fouling, I find that it will normally remove all the copper in one application as long as I remove the bulk of carbon first.
I have a vise with big flat smooth jaws, lined with some thin outdoor carpet. I use that to clamp the barrel in with the muzzle pointed just slightly down. I place a trash can under the muzzle to catch the dirty patches and the wipeout when the excess comes out the muzzle.
So I'll run a few patches soaked with Hoppe's #9 first to knock out most of the carbon, then some dry patches to remove it.
The wipeout can comes with a clear rubber tube that I use to cram into the action, make sure you get it into the chamber and push it up against the shoulder to seal so the foam doesn't come back out into the action. Shake well, and hold the button down for less than a second; the foam will come out the muzzle in a few seconds. I hold the tube tight into the chamber until the foam stops expanding and coming out the muzzle; then cram a large patch into the chamber to keep the wipeout from running back into the action. As it works, it forms a liquid film that will run.
If I'm doing more than one rifle I'll put them in a rack almost horizontal, but just slightly muzzle down. And leave them overnight. I'll put a paper towel or a patch under the muzzle, you may get a few drips.
Then just run a few Hoppe's patches through in the morning, the first will come out bright blue. Unless there's no copper of course.
I've never seen it harm the paint on a stock, but then again, I don't think I've ever gotten any on a stock so I'm not sure about that.
Great stuff though, saves a lot of scrubbing for copper.
Good luck with it, and let us know how it works for you.
I get the Wipe-out at the local Sportsman's Warehouse and Kroil at Napa (if I can't find it elsewhere). Kroil gets used on a lot of other stuff so its handy to have around.
Kroil first, then either bore tech eliminator, or wipe out lately. All my barrels are treated with dyna bore coat though, so cleaning is really easy anymore.
It is irrelevant what you think. What matters is the TRUTH.
As an aside, Kroil works to remove lead fouling too, if you shoot cast bullets. Just let it soak for an hour or two, then dry patches. Lead comes out on the dry patches.
If we live long enough, we all have regrets. But the ones that nag at us the most are the ones in which we know we had a choice.
I use the Outers version of wipe out, it's great stuff, I just take my 7mm RM barrel off its a Blaser R-93, let it sit for 10 min or so, push two patches thru and done. Then one patch with some gun oil and that it. I clean out power fouling with Hoppe's Number 9 some how its not hunting season with out the oder of Hoppe's Number 9!
"Any idiot can face a crisis,it's the day-to-day living that wears you out."
Boretech eliminator. One of my 1000 BR friends swore by it and suggested I try it. Very impressed with the product.
It is not harmful to the steel. In fact in their instructions they suggest leaving some in the bore during storage. Try that with CR-10 or Sweets and you will have an ammonia etched bore.
Bore tech Eliminator is the best I've ever used. It's powerful enough false blue ends up on patches from your jag. I've now gone to Tipton coated jags so I can tell when the copper's gone.
The TM Solution for regular cleaning, which I only do after my rifle starts losing accuracy, (after hundreds of rounds).
Montana X-Treme .50 BMG for copper fouling, if the TM Solution doesn't do the trick, (after hundreds and hundreds of rounds), then followed by the TM Solution to clean the remnants of the .50 BMG out, then I lube with the TM Solution Bore Oil.
Works well for me, although I will admit that ME .50 BMG is some horrible [bleep] to breathe and smell, do it in your shop with your doors open, it works well though and luckily is not needed often.
This is a favorite of mine, I make it gallons at a time, real cheap over the long haul. I like having a volume on hand to hose out my barreled actions on a yearly basis. Also great to dissolve shotgun wad fouling. Warning, I'd not hose out Remington box triggers with this stuff if you add the LLA for long term storage, the LLA will give your trigger problems. Use lighter fluid to hose out the box triggers. Otherwise, this stuff for most everything metal, and maybe some Sweets now and then if I run into neglected copper build up.
Steve's Squeeze 1 quart deodorized mineral spirits or Exxon ClearLite fuel. 1 quart xylene 1 quart MEK 1 quart ATF or Marvel Mystery Oil
For rust protection in storage, add 4 ounces of Lee Liquid Alox per gallon. There will be a precipitate in the bottom of the storage container. Do not shake the storage container, pour the cleaner off the precipitate for use.
Because of the increased solvent power of Steve's Squeeze, store it in glass or metal containers. Do not store this mixture in plastic bottles. It can destroy plastic, and it will evaporate through the plastic. You can use polyethylene squeeze bottles for application, but not for storage. Steve's Squeeze is harmless to bluing and nickel plating, however it will damage many stock finishes.
Print this label and place on the container:
RIFLE BORE CLEANER
CAUTION: HARMFUL IF SWALLOWED. KEEP OUT OF REACH OF CHILDREN
Flammable mixture, Keep away from heat, sparks or flame.
Use with adequate ventilation. Avoid breathing vapors or spray mist. Avoid contact with skin. Keep container tightly closed when not in use.
FIRST AID, If swallowed DO NOT induce vomiting, call a physician immediately. In case of eye contact, immediately flush thoroughly with water and call a physician. In case of skin contact, wash thoroughly.
Safe compounding and use are your responsibility.
Storage
After cleaning with Steve's Squeeze and rinsing with mineral spirits, I apply Steve's Squeeze with Liquid Alox for storage. I wear gloves to avoid fingerprints, and wrap the gun in a polyethylene plastic wrap, one-gallon plastic bags work well for pistols and revolvers, kitchen garbage bags for rifles. This prevents removing the coating if you place the gun in a gun case and prevents accidental fingerprints when you handle the gun. I put the gun in the plastic bag while still wet, the solvents evaporate through the plastic and the gun is dry the next time it is used.
For long term (decades) storage of firearms and ferrous metals, Cosmoline has long been the gold standard. For an easy to use replacement for Cosmoline, I mix Lee Liquid Alox with an equal amount of deodorized mineral spirits and brush it onto the gun. Submerged complex parts like trigger assemblies and drip-dry. The same plastic bag system works for long-term storage. Heavy plastic bags specifically made for firearms storage are available, and may be better in extreme conditions.
It is easy to remove dried Lee Liquid Alox with mineral spirits or any of the spray solvents like carburetor or brake cleaner. Immediately coat the gun with Steve's Squeeze, to prevent rust.
You are free to copy this article provided you send it in its entirety.
Steve Hurst
Last edited by GaryVA; 04/14/14.
�I've never met a genius. A genius to me is someone who does well at something he hates. Anybody can do well at something he loves -- it's just a question of finding the subject.�
M98 bore cleaner (same guys making GS Custom bullets as far as I know), should be available on the net somewhere. M98 cleans copper and nitro fouling and is not harsh on the barrel. Neutralize by simply pushing a patch or two damped with water through the barrel. The other cleaner I use is Bore Tech carbon and Copper cleaner. I could not really tell that Bore Tech worked better and they M98 stuff is pretty cheap in South-Africa.
Bore tech Eliminator is the best I've ever used. It's powerful enough false blue ends up on patches from your jag. I've now gone to Tipton coated jags so I can tell when the copper's gone.
+1 on this. Bore tech also make a "proof positive" jag that works well. I learned this the hard way (2 days worth of blue patches)!
A good principle to guide me through life: “This is all I have come to expect, standard lackluster performance. Trust nothing, believe no one and realize it will only get worse…”
Wipeout, Patchout, Hoppe's Elite Copper Terminator, and Sweet's are all good for cooper removal. #9 still works, it's just slow. You need to be careful with Sweets or Copper Terminator to not leave them in the bore too long or get them on most stock finishes and some plastics. Kroil seems to help with lead deposits. Butch's doesn't do anything that I can tell except doing a fair job with carbon deposits. I haven't had a chance to try Bore Tech.
Then you haven't tried Wipeout. Compared to it, Eliminator's tits on a boar hog
A good principle to guide me through life: “This is all I have come to expect, standard lackluster performance. Trust nothing, believe no one and realize it will only get worse…”
I am going to have to try this...scrubbing is for the birds and if I can find a cheaper way to wipe all of this schit outta my barrel the better. Got a question to ask:
conical rubber plug...how big of it do you get to fit the chamber? I presume this will go up to the lands is what you are referring to? Or does it just go in the chamber?
using a plastic grocery bag rubber banded over the muzzle...if it leaks and gets on the blueing of the muzzle and you leave it on for a few hours will this fade the blueing?
I have a bottle of Montana Extreme Bore Solvent but have not used it. Might as well get going with this so how much do you put in your muzzle? You stated 3-4 droppers as in eye drops. That is a VERY small amount to me but if you mean 3-4 of those full eye dropper containers then I guess that can work. I do not have an eye dropper but how much liquid would you say that 3-4 eye droppers hold?
Tomorrow I will stop over Lowes and get this rubber plug. My guess it would be in the plumbing dept? I know some small hardware stores will have these but do not know if Lowes will have them but I will check...we got those big box stores here and none of the family owned-size hardware stores here.
Originally Posted by Jim in Idaho
Montana Extreme Bore Cleaner.
Get a 25 cent conical rubber plug from the hardware store - heck, get 2, that's a lifetime supply.
Stick the plug in the chamber, tap it in tight with a cleaning rod. Squirt about 3-4 eye dropper's full of Montana Extreme in the muzzle. Take a square of plastic grocery bag and attach it to the muzzle with a rubber band. Turn the muzzle up, then down, then up, then down to coat the bore. Lay the rifle on a level surface and walk away.
Come back several hours later. Remove the grocery bag from the muzzle and pour out the now blue liquid. Carefully run a cleaning rod in from the muzzle to tap out the plug. Run 2 dry patches through the bore from the chamber end to dry the rest of the bore cleaner. If you feel like it, run a patch with some lighter fluid or alcohol on it to completely degrease the bore, or not. Run an oily patch through the bore and you're done.
If the rifle is a real fouler, look at the muzzle in a good light after cleaning as above. If you see streaks of copper (very rare) apply Montana Extreme Copper Killer as described above in place of the Bore Cleaner.
If you had to use the Copper Killer then when you're done apply Dyna Bore Coat once. Then put the Copper Killer away, never to be used again - at least not on that rifle.
FWIW, I use the Bore Cleaner about every 300-400 rounds whether the rifle needs it or not, I'm real particular about that...
Well, I find a 4 inch blade and a garden hose works great as a boar cleaner. You might try one of those power-washers if the blood is really dry. (An old Lt Col friend of mine claims gun cleaning is a ruse to keep the troops busy so they don't run off and get VD from the local professional ladies (or any reasonable facsimile). The secondary purpose is to get the larger pieces of CS and BS and plain old mud out of the barrel so you don't kill yourself instead of someone who might deserve it upon exercising your index finger.) :-)
Why does a man who is 50 pounds overweight complain about a 10 pound rifle being too heavy? SCI Life Member 4**
Then you haven't tried Wipeout. Compared to it, Eliminator's tits on a boar hog
They are both fine products , If you don't want to wait overnite for the foam to work you use Eliminator. Cleans a heavily fouled rifle in 30 minutes . I have had to use Wipeout overbite at least 2x to get the same effect. Eliminator is even safer on your bore so please don't slam a fantastic product.
Then you haven't tried Wipeout. Compared to it, Eliminator's tits on a boar hog
They are both fine products , If you don't want to wait overnite for the foam to work you use Eliminator. Cleans a heavily fouled rifle in 30 minutes . I have had to use Wipeout overbite at least 2x to get the same effect. Eliminator is even safer on your bore so please don't slam a fantastic product.
Boretech requires several applications (as does Wipeout) on some rifles, but BT requires significantly more effort involving a cleaning rod and many passes, whereas Wipeout is ostensibly hands free.
A good principle to guide me through life: “This is all I have come to expect, standard lackluster performance. Trust nothing, believe no one and realize it will only get worse…”
On the plug � a .30-06/308 case is .473 at the head, so I got a conical plug that measures smaller than that on the small end and larger than that on the big end. It gets wedged into the mouth of the chamber so the chamber and neck and leade all get cleaned. A .223 based case head is about .378� so I got a smaller plug with the small end less than that dimension. There�s an Ace hardware store right around the corner from me so I searched on their website for �conical rubber plugs� and found what sizes they offered before going to the store. Individual plugs were a few cents each, I forget exactly but they're cheap and one lasts a long, long time.
The Montana Extreme cleaners come with a small plastic pipette or you can probably find something similar at the hardware store, or just get an eye dropper at the drug store except they�re more expensive. The plastic pipette included with the Montana Extreme is just right. I squeeze the bulb and let it suck up as much as it will, then squeeze that into the upright plugged barrel from the muzzle, my idea is to flood the bore with chemical reactant. 3-4 of those for a .25 to .30 caliber, maybe just 2-3 for a .22 or .243.
I cut a square out of a plastic grocery bag maybe 4-5� across and double it over for strength. It is laid over the muzzle and held on tight with a rubber band wrapped and twisted around over and over. I�ll upend the rifle back and forth, scope up and scope down, to get the bore really coated, then lay it as flat as possible. Some invariably gets on the bluing of the crown but it doesn�t hurt a thing even after being left there 24 hours � applied one evening and removed the next evening.
During the time the cleaner is left in every few hours I�ll coat the bore again the same way � upending the barrel back and forth and then lay it down in some different orientation � on the left side first, then the right etc. I might do that twice or thrice during cleaning, whenever I remember to do it.
The longest I�ve left it in is about 24 hours, the shortest is maybe 6 hours only because I started cleaning in the morning and finished in the afternoon since I was taking that rifle out shooting the next day. I don�t know what a minimum time would be since I use this as a �take 5 minutes to prepare it, walk away, then finish when I feel like it� proposition. But it has never failed to remove every trace of copper for as far as I can see into the bore.
I don�t have a borescope to verify 100% cleaning, but as an experiment I have run a patch of Montana Copper Killer down some freshly cleaned bores, left it in for 10 minutes and then run a clean patch through and it came out completely white � not a speck of blue. That Copper Killer is powerful stuff so I figure if it didn�t react with any copper there must not be any copper in the bore. I�ve used that method to check for bare metal before applying Dyna Bore coat as well.
To the folks that will inevitably want to brag about how their method is greater and easier and all around better, okay, that�s cool with me. There may be an easier or quicker method. But I know this works, it meets my needs and only takes about 8-10 minutes to prep and then finish and uses maybe 4-5 patches, including oiling the bore. If I have a few minutes to get it started I�ll start it. If it takes me till the next day to get back to it, I know it won�t hurt anything. It doesn�t smell � which is NOT the case if you run the Montana products back and forth on patches and brushes � and it�s easy to keep it from getting onto stock finishes. I don�t know if it would hurt a stock finish or not since I�ve never spilled any on a stock.
Anyway � this is the way I skin this cat and if it works for someone else, great, if they prefer another method, that�s great, too.
Gunnery, gunnery, gunnery. Hit the target, all else is twaddle!
Don't forget the pocket fisherman. Somewhere I've got a picture of my brother laying on a pond bank with his foot through the handle of one of those things. Bout as laid back fishing as it gets.
He's also the one that turned me on to wipe out.....go figure.
I've switched from time to time but now days I scrub the bore with a brush and Kroil and let it sit muzzle down for a little bit. Then I patch it out with lacquer thinner followed up by whatever foam bore cleaner I have at the time. Muzzle down....overnight
If I have time on my hands I use WipeOut or PatchOut +/- accelerant) and leave over night. If in a hurry use Montana Extreme Bore Cleaner and/or ME Copper Killer (formerly 50BMG). Love the smell of Hoppe's #9 but seldom use it much anymore except in my 22 RFs.
Ed
A person who asks a question is a fool for 5 minutes the person who never asks is a fool forever.
The worst slaves are those that put the chains on themselves.
I'm trying this fellows method which means MINIMUM cleaning , just get the carbon out .Working good so far .
I shot my 25-06 from 1979 until about 1990ish never doing more than running an oily patch down the barrel . I figured I kept the whole gun clean - never got the barrel dirty - just didn't know about copper fouling etc . . Give this a look if you want , he's a sharp cookie on guns and stuff .
PRESIDENT TRUMP 2024/2028 !!!!!!!!!!
Posted by Bristoe The people wringing their hands over Trump's rhetoric don't know what time it is in America.
WipeOut if used with the accelerant can pit stainless steel if left over an extended time (overnite). Just WipeOut will not.
Prowler, Has there been any data or research to prove that this occurs ? And what substance or chemical are you calling an accelerant???
I'm not disputing your claim. It's just the first time I've seen any one mention pitting caused by the use of Wipeout. I've been using it for a little over a year now & leaving it in the bore of my rifles over night and have yet to see any damage caused by its use.
Last edited by chlinstructor; 11/06/17.
"Allways speak the truth and you will never have to remember what you said before..." Sam Houston Texans, "We say Grace, We Say Mam, If You Don't Like it, We Don't Give a Damn!"
Thanks. I'd never heard of or seen the Accelerant product.
"Allways speak the truth and you will never have to remember what you said before..." Sam Houston Texans, "We say Grace, We Say Mam, If You Don't Like it, We Don't Give a Damn!"
Wipe out has a product you can use before putting the foam cleaner in , I think that's what he' talking about .
That is my understanding as well. I've never used the Accelerant but had good results nonetheless.
The internet rumor is the accelerant can etch the bore if you let it soak. I've stopped using it a long time with my Patch Out (liquid version of Wipe Out foam).
I also use Montana Extreme. Sometimes I think Montana Extreme works better, other times it seems like Patch Out does better. If it's winter and the windows are closed I use Patch Out.
I'm used to chemical odors but don't sniff the bottle of Montana Extreme........I know this.....
Casey
Not being married to any particular political party sure makes it a lot easier to look at the world more objectively... Having said that, MAGA.
I like Boretech Eliminator, but can never find it locally and sometimes have a hard time finding it online. I've moved on to Wipe out Patch Out, it is available locally for a reasonable price and works very well with minimal scent. I often use two patches of Wipeout Accelerator (which does have a fairly strong ammonia smell) before starting with Patch Out. Accelerator definitely speeds things up, but Patch Out is pretty quick by itself.
I run a patch of Hoppe's making sure to coat the chamber, recoil lug recesses, as well as the bore and let it soak for a few minutes
I run a patch of sweets concentrating only on the bore and let it sit for 5 minutes
I run a second patch of sweets and usually the copper color is much lighter than the first. I stop there because I don't want to remove all the copper I only want to remove the copper that hasn't filled any voids or defects in the bore.
I run a patch of Hoppe's and then a dry patch twice concentrating on both the bore and the chamber to clean out any remaining powder and to make sure any remaining Sweets 7.62 is well diluted.
I run several dry patches concentrating on recoil lug recesses and bolt recesses in the action
I never use a brush I make sure everything is bone dry when I'm done The total procedure takes about 20 minutes I clean every 30 to 40 rounds on average
My 22 lr never gets the bore or chamber cleaned unless it has a problem feeding or functioning. Generally the more shots that are fired through it the more accurate it gets. If I do clean it I only use Hoppe's # 9
When my rifles are put away for more than a month the bore and chamber get Rem Oil
Trystan
Last edited by Trystan; 11/06/17.
Good bullets properly placed always work, but not everyone knows what good bullets are, or can reliably place them in the field
I run 2 patches with Kroil thru the bore before I start cleaning. I then run a dry patch and followup with Wipeout Foam or KG1 solvent . I have used KG12 in the past on rough bores after first using KG1 but don't have to use it on Tikka , Sako bores.
I usually put the Barnes or Montana Extreme to it. I'll run a patch, folllowed by a brush, followed by another patch. I'll then run a dry patch, followed by a shot of Gun Scrub down the barrel. One or two more dry patches and I'm usually satisfied. System seems to work well and I've never etched a bore, that I know of. I don't let the Barnes or Montana Extreme sit very long at all.
Do any of you Kroil users mix it (say, 50/50 Kroil/Hoppes, or something like that)? Or just use it straight?
"An archer sees how far he can be from a target and still hit it, a bowhunter sees how close he can get before he shoots." It is certainly easy to use that same line of thinking with firearms. -- Unknown
I run 2 patches with Kroil thru the bore before I start cleaning. I then run a dry patch and followup with Wipeout Foam or KG1 solvent . I have used KG12 in the past on rough bores after first using KG1 but don't have to use it on Tikka , Sako bores.
Same here, except I use Bore Tech Eliminator for copper when I'm in a hurry.
It is irrelevant what you think. What matters is the TRUTH.
Do any of you Kroil users mix it (say, 50/50 Kroil/Hoppes, or something like that)? Or just use it straight?
I used a 50/50 mix of Shooters Choice/Kroil for a number of years until it ran out. It cleaned quite well, but the smell would curl your nose hairs.
Now I use: Heavy duty cleaning: WipeOut foaming bore cleaner Moderate/light duty cleaning: Ballistol Lube: Ballistol or BreakFree CLP Protectant: Ballistol or BreakFree CLP
I'm trying out MPro-7 in a pump bottle as a non-foaming cleaner. My friend swears by it and it does seem to cut through carbon very nicely. As a bonus it's non-toxic and has virtually no scent.
“There are three things all wise men fear: the sea in storm, a night with no moon, and the anger of a gentle man.” ― Patrick Rothfuss, The Wise Man's Fear
It was Jerry "Mad Dog" Shriver (SFC E-7)who said: "No, no, I've got them right where I want them -- surrounded from the inside." http://www.macvsog.cc/1969.htm
Before I get into my cleaning methods, let me say I have a Hawkeye Bore scope and a Lyman bore scope. I would suggest anyone that does not have a lyman bore scope to purchase one. The Lyman is a digital image and the Hawkeye is a true optical image, but the Lyman will show copper and powder fouling left in the barrel. We have our own rifle range, shoot and reload for a heated and AC house, shoot all year long, rain, shine, and snow up to 300 yards. I shoot thousands of rounds per year from 22 caliber CF to 7/300 Win mag, 7 STW, and 7/300 Win mag.
Also, this is a general purpose discussion, and 22RF, 223, Various Ackley Improved cases, large hunting calibers all have different fouling characteristics. Also, barrel quality(micro finish) is of paramount importance. There is a world of difference in dealing with a 223 and 7mm STW in fouling issues. Various powders foul VERY differently, and some powder start fire cracking the barrels within 400 rounds, while others contain so much DNT, they just seem to eat the throats in the barrel like you were shooting dried battery acid.
It is important to keep in context how a particular person likes their particular method. P. dog shooters and ground squirrel shooters have the most demanding challenges in cleaning their guns as they shoot up to 25 thousand rounds a year through their various rifles. They don't have time to phart around, they have to clean and clean down to bare metal in a hurry.
Also, as you read how various shooters clean so wonderfully with a product. Again, remember that some powders clean EASILY, and a guy that is loading 19-30g of powder is going to have very, very different needs than a guy that is shooting 60-80+grains of powder, which may have a burning chamber up to 10"-17". Another thing to remember is that some guys clean after every 20 or so shots or less, this requirement is much less than a guy that may shoot 125 - 300 or more rounds.
Guys that make a simple statement that they like xyz or zyx product, and just let it go with this simple statement is like saying that they like Red, or Orange with yellow stripes. The particular method that someone likes may work and work very well for his shooting style and number of rounds fired with a particular barrel and it's internal micro finish. Now that same shooter puts 80 rounds down the barrel, his favorite cleaning method has to be repeated several times. Also, some people are just going to spend so much money and apply so much effort, and Hell with it if it does not do a complete job...it is just a hobby, nothing wrong with that either. After all, Daddy never cleaned his rifle or owned a gun case.
FIRST THING YOU LEARN WITH A BORE SCOPE IS THAT CLEAN PATCHES DO NOT INDICATE A CLEAN BARREL!!!!
Let me start with Wipe out products. Since I am shooting a lot of over bore Centerfire cases, lots of powder fouling accumulates from the throat to 17" down the bore, and often the accumulation in the middle of the barrel is the most stubborn.
The procedure that I ended up with that DID WORK with my particular lot# of wipe out is as follows: 1. push 4 patches of Wipe Out accelerator down the bore 2. Brush 10-25 strokes with Accelerator, depending on the caliber, throw away Bronze bristle brush every 100 strokes 3.Push 2 wet patches of accelerator down the bore 4. push 4 patches of Wipe out Patch Out down the bore, let sit overnight NOTE: some powders are stubborn to get out, it may take a second Brushing and soaking...I did say brushing as plain soaking was a futile exercise.
Soaking with foam, NEVER got out all the powder fouling( I tried 4 different cans), copper was removed, however.
Key on the Wipe out, brushing with the Accelerator, and the brush was carrying the heavy weight in removing the carbon. I also have come to the conclusion that any of these chemical products may have different characteristics based on the Lot# as it was produced.
We are subject to: a. the quality control of the manufacturer b.how they may change the formula c.how the quality of the formula is changed by the fools running the machines at the plant where it was produced.
Shooters choice works well with good brushes and good copper solvent afterwards, so does Witches Brew.
Currently, I use Montana Extreme Bore solvent, this stuff is safe to let sit in your gun, it is an oil bases product. You can let it sit overnight, But I always brush to get the Rough carbon out and last tid bit of copper out if there is any.
Many people are no SOAKERS, and I fall into that crowd. I like to clean the gun and be done with it.
So, here is a method that works, and I always check with a bore scope.
1. 4 wet patches of Montana Extreme bore solvent 2. Brush with good bronze bristle brush soaked with bore solvent, 10-20 strokes, wet the brush as it extends from the muzzle every 5 or so strokes. I never run a dry brush down a bore. 3. Dry patch to remove loose carbon 4. Push Montana extreme Copper killer on 4 patches push through the bore or saturate a wool mop with the Copper killer and work back and forth in the bore, wetting it a time or two, you want the mop soaked to the point to where it drips. Wool mop is more effective, just a tad more messy 5. let the copper killer sit for 15 minutes 6. push 3-4 dry patches through the bore, if you have a bore scope, inspect at this point 7. push a wet patch of cigarette light fluid down the bore Note: if you do not have a bore scope, look in the muzzle with a small flash light, copper will be visible if it is still there, so will drill marks in the factory barrel if you use a magnifying glass.
NOW
if you have a barrel that is hard to clean, older Military barrels, try this more aggressive method 1. 4 wet patches of what ever your favorite bore cleaner is 2. using a Montana Extreme plastic brush, brush 20 strokes with JB or Montana Extreme Copper Cream-reapply every 5 strokes 3. Push 4-6 patches of Bore cleaner down the bore to get out all of the very mild abrasive, 4. 4 Dry patches This is the method that I use when I shot a rifle 350-600 rounds on a p. dog town, but on a factory Chrome Moly barrel it may take 1 application of the Montana Extreme Copper solvent to get the last bit of copper out, but it will not be much, this would indicate that I should have brushed 5 more times on that particular barrel.
I have most of the chemical products mentioned, and the vast majority of them failed miserably when the bores were examined with a bore scope. You have to realize that a chrome moly factory barrel will have different fouling tendencies than a Stainless High-grade match barrel.
I usually test chemicals on SS and Blued barrels in my 7 Mags, lots of carbon and some copper. I will not mention which ones of the chemicals mentioned by other posters that failed miserably. I do also like Shooter's choice and Witch's Brew, Sweets's 7.62 copper remover.
I am just not a soaker. I tried the Wipe out with smaller cases also, powder fouling was always in the barrel but did not show up on clean patches pushed through the bore. Again, I maybe a victim of lot to lot changes.
There are a lot of folks that are scared of using brushes, you need to get over that. I have the highest quality SS match barrels that have been cut off and re chambered up to 4 times(301" unturned blanks, and Max Heavy Varmint contours) that had a LOT of brush strokes through the barrel, I do my own machining.
There are some warnings to using chemicals, it would be good practice to use rubber gloves, which are very cheap. The best powder solvent was made by General Motors, Top Engine cleaner also marketed by Mercury Outboard Motor cleaner. These products take the Oxygen out of the air in an enclosed space. They also go straight through your skin to your kidney walls, this is a dangerous product to use...so take heed.
The politically correct trend now is to not use brushes on those very precious barrels, hog wash. Those that are scared of bronze bristle brushes, you really need to get over this because those brushes are the main thing that gets stubborn carbon fouling out. Also, the coeficient of friction of a plasctic brush is more than a bronze bristle brush.
In some extreme cases, I have had to wrap oooo steel wool in a new bronze bristle brush and brush with JB. My neighbor had a 6.5 Sweede that had so much copper fouling in it that minimum loads were causing very high pressure. This method also works on smoothing out a barrel that has some rust in it with a lot of fouling in it.
I bought a 22/250 that was so full of copper fouling from H380 it was hard to get a patch down the barrel. Obviously, the barrel was ruined if I could not get the powder fouling out. So, I tried the 0000 Steel Wool with JB and it got most of the fouling out. I called an old gunsmith named George that lived in San Leandro, Ca. He told me to use Comet on that oooo steel wool...glad I was sitting down when told me. Well, 10 strokes with Comet, and the barrel was clean, but had a roughted up surface finish. Groups out of that 22/250 got down to 3/4" and I killed another 100 coyotes with it before I found a new Remington take off to screw on.
It is a great idea to use a Neil Jones or a Lucas Bore guide. These bore guides have a bushing on them that centers the rod in the bore, which keeps the lands from getting wiped out from 8-5 o'clock.
Wipe out is the schit for copper. Kroil otherwise....
+1, except to add that Barnes CR-10, Montana Extreme, or Sweets 7.62 all seem equally effective at copper removal. NOTHING beats Kroils for lead removal, powder fouling cleanup, or general gun lubricant and preservative. It is definitely worth the $13 or $16/ can. When you aren't cleaning guns, Kroil will work miracles around the garage as well.
"I didn't realize we had so many snipers in this country." by J23
Industrial strength ammonia (9%) works really well. Do not let it set in the bore for over 5 minutes. I have been cleaning rifles with that for a long time to rid barrels of copper and have never had a problem with pitting or etching. Thing is now I seldom have to use it. The early tendency of my rifles to copper foul has been essentially shot out and I seldom have a problem any more.
There was no greater freedom than when I would leave Holiday Park Fish Camp heading my airboat west toward the Big Cypress. Fuel for 4 days, a good machete, an ice chest. No phone, no radio. Just God and me and the Everglades.
I have been really impressed with Hoppe's Black High-Performance Copper Cleaner.Just used it on a new barrel during break-in and between groups,followed by a regular solvent.After 75 rounds,I still don't see any copper residue in the barrel.I apply it to a patch wrapped around a loose fitting bore brush.I used it on some other barrels that had been cleaned,but still showing a little copper,a couple of patches and that copper was gone.It says it's safe on any barrel
~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~ As Bob Hagel would say"You should not use a rifle that will kill an animal when everything goes right; you should use one that will do the job when everything goes wrong."Good words of wisdom...............
With that much brushing are you needing to touch up the crowns now and then?
m
I have 20,40,60x magnification to inspect crowns. When I was in the p. dog wars, I would set back barrels every 1700-2000 rounds, I touched up the crown at that point only.
I do not yank the brush through the crown, but intentionally gently pull the brush though the crown. I do not put enough pressure on the cleaning rod to torque it pushing and pulling it either. I have purchased used custom guns with cleaning rod wear in the throat and down the barrel were a guy was yanking and pulling the rod hard through the barrel.
I would add, many good solvents for copper removal, stubborn powder fouling takes good brushes. Shooters have individual needs based on their circumstances. It is difficult to impossible to state a general cleaning regiment that will work for every type of barrel and shooting regiment.
JB and Montana Extreme Copper Cream cut the crud faster than anything, no screwing around with these two products either on patches or brushes.
Wipe out results were dismal without Patch Out, brushes, and Accelerator. I have read of some very knowledgeable shooters that have used it with success, and I know that they have bore scopes. This leads me to believe that the origin of manufacture has changed or the formula has changed because various cans that I recently bought from Midway did not remove all the powder fouling, but it did get 80% of the powder fouling. I threw away two cans of foam. I was doing load development on a 7 Mag, 6 XC, and 6.5 Creed during my recent trial with Patch out & Accelerator. I will continue using the Patch Out with Accelerator,and brushing, where I achieved the success that I was looking for. R#17 was a bitch to get out of that 6 XC, and I developed fire cracking within 400 rounds....hot burning powder and it welded the powder fouling to the super slick custom barrel's bore.
Some of the products mentioned by some of the other posters were not worth a darn, I swear, urine would have worked better. If you don't have a bore scope, you really do not know how well your solvents are removing the Powder and copper fouling. Lyman bore scopes are down to below $200, and you should treat yourself to one. I shoot a lot, and big 7's, in particular, do not tolerate an accumulation of powder fouling if you want to shoot tiny groups.
We are all subject to manufacturing defects in how a product is made from Batch to Batch. I fear bean counters that make a decision to make a product cheaper by using Cheaper ingredients. Their train of thought is that they will only loose 20% of the customer base, and still be money ahead. This happens often after a company has been sold.
This is just a hobby, clean, don't clean, half azz clean...have it your way.
I'm an Ed's Red fan for about the past decade. I run a wet patch down, put the rifle aside for at least 24 hours, and then wipe out the crud with a couple more patches. I usually put a little Ed's Red Oil mixed with Eezox on a bore snake and run it through when I'm done.
Most of my rifles have been DBC'd. If it's really bad, I may use PB Blaster or Brake Cleaner, but an overnight soak in Ed's Red does the bulk of my cleaning.
There was a guy at the range the other day using Windex (ISYN) to clean his barrel. Anybody ever heard of this? I guess the ammonia in it is good enough to cut the copper?
Some people are educated beyond their intelligence.
Windex is a common recommendation for cleaning a barrel shot with corrosive ammo. I've used it on a Mosin-Nagant shot with 60's-era Czech Silvertip and 80's-era Romanian corrosive ammo. It works for that purpose.
As for copper removal, it's not going to do much. Janitorial strength ammonia (9-10%) is supposed to work well for copper removal, but I've never tried it.
“There are three things all wise men fear: the sea in storm, a night with no moon, and the anger of a gentle man.” ― Patrick Rothfuss, The Wise Man's Fear
Howa/LSI recommends ammonia based cleaners for the break in procedure. I'm fairly sure the first Howa I got,10+ years ago had windex on the procedure. FWIW.
![[Linked Image]](http://cfnewsads.thomasnet.com/images/large/553/553351.jpg)
![[Linked Image]](https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7100/7055995385_6a25630a31_z.jpg)
