Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Muzzleloaders so it began - the underhammer build

Some of you may have been looking at my underhammer build thread here:

original thread

since then, been busy trying to make things happen in and amongst the family stuff, but I complicated things by mucking up the butt, so I started over.

This time, I went full stock:



For whatever reason, all my pics didn't transfer from the camera, I'll post more later, but in review, here's the action:



The barrel is a 15/16" Colerain 54 cal, 56 twist, round bottom rifling.

At this point, I have all the rough dimensions done. The action is inletted, the barrel channel is inletted, the butt plate has been fitted.




The foreend groove is done, but still needs to be trimmed in overall height to final dimension.

The ramrod hole has been drilled with the help of a 3/8" rod and a bit welded to the end. Using a 1/32" bit, I drilled a check hole through the barrel channel floor to confirm its location near the breech, and its about as dead solid perfect as one would hope, with about 3/16" of space below the barrel, and centered.

The forearm is at about 19 inches, I left it long till I determine what I'm going to do about a ramrod pipe.

I'm going to place some sideplates on the stock, from about 2" in front of the breech backwards to before the lock. Given the amount I plan on trimming down the width, I think they will help give the area some additional strength. Thinking of using 1/8" steel for those, and using an after market "brass plating" process to jazz them up. I should be able to snake a screw between the barrel and ramrod to attach them fore, and another screw just past the rear action screw aft.

More pics later, but I need to trim down the grip a little more, narrow the butt, and cut the tang length some before I inlet for it.

So, after a month or so, I'm just about where I was before, with a little more progress and a lot more experience.

forgot.

The barrel is 42" long. The overall rifle length is just about 5' from muzzle to the tip of the butt plate hook.

More pics:

Down the ramrod channel.



Originally, the foreend was as thick top to bottom as the forearm was. I used a 3/8" router bit to make that groove, then inserted the rod/drill bit in the channel.

Some scrap wood was also routed with the same bit, and cut in small pieces and planed down to 5/16". These were inserted into the routed groove on the foreend to hold the rod/bit from moving any direction other than in and out. Progress was slow, as the bit would only make about an inch before chips would fill the bit, requiring a lot of in and out.

After it was drilled, the foreend was trimmed in height to its current view. Still a lot of side material to be removed, but I'm keeping as many square edges as possible till I absolutely need to take it down.

Here's the inletted action, with trigger guard for a view.

The hammer notch will have more removed to fit around the nipple spacer and flash cap.


Overall side view of butt and lock:



and another:



look closely at the butt. Believe it or not, my original blank was only 4" top to bottom (I'm saving the bigger pieces for later), so there is actually gorilla glued splice in the butt, parallel to the barrel.

Can you see it?

Looks great! I gotta few projects that need your attention.

Hopefully, I have time this weekend to work on the tang.

Will need to cut about an inch or so off of it, then I can bend it and make its inlet. Then round off the top of the stock near the breech and get the ugly hump off of it.

It's already about an 1/8" too high as is, so it should profile down nicely.

Need to straighten out the bottom of the butt from plate to the action as well. I wish now I would have flipped the lumber and got that close grain away from the bottom end. It is a "chip" waiting to happen, even with a butt plate.

(Actually, it already did a little, but I'm still shaping the brass and wood together through there, so I don't know how much of a deal it will be.)

really neat! I am unfamiliar with the underhammer design, any particular reason for that choice?

The primer fires straight into the powder charge for fast ignition, there are few moving parts, and the primer is somewhat protected from the elements.

This version of an underhammer approaches a sidelock in total parts.

Off the top of my pre-coffee head, there are 12 parts total in the ignition system, including the nipple and various pins, excluding the trigger guard.

In traditional under hammer actions, the trigger guard is the spring, and the parts number is even less.

But it is direct ignition.

Other than that, the big reason it came up is I needed an option for a lefty.

The action itself is fairly new design, (hit "gun works" late last year, IIRC), I haven't seen another gun built on it yet on the web.

My only under hammer experience was with my cousin's .58 caliber H&A. It had 3 moving parts- the trigger, the hammer, and the trigger guard, which served as hammer spring. It was a big ugly gun, but boy was it accurate. He still has it, but he has moved to the other end of the state, so I haven't shot it in about 15 years. I am considering an underhammer squirrel project in .36 or .40 caliber.

Your project is really nice, and I look forward to seeing the finished product. And I am a lefty too, so I understand.

I posted this on some other forums, but figure since I need quick comment, I'd spread it around, just in case.

I plan on putting some underlugs on my underhammer build tomorrow morning and I've been toying with a few notions, mainly using wedges or keys versus pins.

I am tempted to slot the lugs, and use steel pins - the slot giving parallel movement but holding the stock firm to the barrel.

Then thought of using brass escutcheons in the wood on both sides to hold the slightly tapered pins. The brass would be like a bushing with the surface designed in almost inlay fashion, oval, star, cross, animal, or some other pattern. [The finish result would then be a brass 'inlay' with a rust blued dot in it, tactfully placed]

Versus the simplicity of a peened head wedge fitted to the lug slot ( a little smaller to allow parallel movement)

I'm good either way, I just do things to keep the fingers busy, and will build from scratch whatever I plan on doing, but was curious on the structure and function of either choice, compared to the other.

Get your comments in today. I'll be up tomorrow at 0530 and in the work shed with a cup of coffee.

Well, the wife had a slew of gardening for me to get done on Saturday and Sunday was a church work day, so I got more time to debate improvements.

Without working off an example, determining contour/shaping of the forearm and fore-end, thinking about nose cap, entry pipes, ramrod pipes, under lugs, and pins versus wedges will about wear a man out.

myself RWE , i would go with pins . I just don�t care for keys on a full stock rifle .
One of the reasons is that they often can interrupt the molding on the forearm unless they are properly planed out . When they are not , then often times one ends up with a very thick forearm and a very thick web between the barrel and RR channel
if you do decide to go with wedge keys , then i would go with the small keys and escutcheons. I would also plan out your moldings so as to give you some idea as if you will nee the keys with a angled head along with cupped escutcheons.

If however your going to end up with a more common under hammer forearm then just a couple keys will or pins will work . a lot of times such for arms are rather bulky and round to more rectangle in appearance.
But then again those are also 2 piece stock formations

Im alittle confused about something however .
Are you still going to cut the forearm back like on your first stock ?
If so it looks like do to the web thickness between your barrel channel and ram rod channel , are you then going to have to put in a small section of under rib from the forearm to the muzzle ?

Also have you considered the depth the resulting RR hole is going to be from the bottom of the barrel ?
Normally the RR s stopped by the Nipple and flash guard . But in your case it looks like that these will end up being deep in your stock which may then also make it more difficult to place your caps on .

The other thing , and maybe its just the way the photos were taken , but it appears that the hammer will not even come close to striking to the depth where the top of the nipple will be at . If that�s the case then your barrel will need to go even deeper into the stock OR your lock/ trigger needs to drop a lot deeper .

Please understand these are just questions I have as im not seeing any reference lines on your stock ?

here are a couple photos of an Underhammer i did some years agao . while its a 1/2 stock and it has a reciever vs the trigger/lock set up your using . Mybe they will help you some so as to see the relation of the hammer to the nipple as well as some idea of the forearm . however on yours, im getting the idea your shooting for something more along the lines of the forearm on a longrifle ?

I appreciate the questions.


There's a lot more wood to come off. In times past, I would hog off almost whatever needed to go, but lately, I've been prone to leave as much "square" and overdone as possible until the last minute. The square faces and edges help with any jigs I design to do whatever voodoo I need to do.

All my reference lines have been sanded off, as I "sketched" so much on it, that I cleaned it up to regroup. Luckily, everything along the forearm is symmetrical and I have some small reference nicks I use to rescribe where needed.

The lock is at the right spot. The hammer goes into a groove in the stock that is normally relieved a whole lot more on the underhammers, as well as another eighth or so at the front of the lock towards the muzzle that needs to come off the bottom.

I'm using a long threaded nipple as well; given the straight ignition, the extra length doesn't scare me. I have metal stock on hand to devise a "spacer" that will hold the nipple at the appropriate depth, and this spacer may double as a flash guard as well.

If I can make it work, the hammer tab will project just enough from under the stock to get a grip on to cock it. And capping will be done with the straightline capper (that I am gently bending) along a "ramp" in the center of the forearm. I'm using the defunct stock to test this plan. If it don't happen, then I'll relieve enough wood to make it happen as traditionally seen.

Just working out if the flash guard, ramrod end, and the nipple location to one another will allow this to happen.

Right now, the web between the ramrod hole and barrel channel is an even 3/16 throughout the forearm. It does fade some to the muzzle end, to 1/4" - I can live with that, but I drilled a couple holes this weekend to really check that web in the forearm area and its 3/16". It is my intent to have the RR stop at the flash guard.

I will leave it full stocked this time, all the way, like a longrifle stock as you referenced. Thinking of an entry pipe at the end of the forearm, than a couple pipes in the fore-end between the entry pipe and nose cap.

Better pics would help, for sure, but my daughter has my wife's camera, and my cell phone sucks for detail.

A sketch or marked up picture would help as well.

If I can download all the bird pics my girl has taken, I'll try to get something visually understandable posted.

here's a current side view.



and a front with a proposed redline.



Still have 1/8-3/16 to come off the sides of the fore end, as well as almost a 1/4 off the bottom, and half the flat to come off the top, not to mention contouring the edges and such.

I may do some extra work on the ramrod groove to bring it up a little more and reduce the web in the forearm. Depends if it looks too blocky when I get it shaped.

{it's an odd perspective thing, the web is currently 1/4" but it looks a lot bigger)

What size pins would you use?

And how many?

Well, I got two lugs in the barrel, but couldn't find finishing nails or proper size stock for pins. Didn't feel like making any either, so I used some old hex keys, 3/32".

Drilled the holes at 3/32" as well, and slotted the lugs some to allow some lateral movement, but none up and down. It's a good fit.

When I get the wood finished, I'll cut them to fit.

Got one more to put in, then I'll finish drilling the tang screws.

Hope to get more pics soon, but I have the underlugs in place, drilled for the tang screws, and put it the barrel,tang,action, and stock all together.

I have D&T the nipple, and test fired a few caps.

Working on thimbles and entry pipes now, as well as flash guards - the latter taking a little bit of design effort.

My wife says the whole gun is "freakishly long" but I'm not sure if she is an authority on the subject.

Having your wife convinced that your gun is "freakishly long" is not necessarily bad...

John

I made some thimbles.



That's #2 on the left, and #3 on the right. Still need to clean them up some, and #3 will probably be cut in two.

Making a two-piece entry pipe using #2 there.

And yes, I did silver solder the tabs together.

I used an old brass plate from a door guard. It's important to note that they varnish one side of those, so that side you want to keep external, else you need to clean it all off if you solder. And it smokes like hell when you put the torch to it.



Y'all don't want to see #1. It wasn't pretty. I cursed.

A lot.

I'm not sure about the dragon, but that is a beautiful rifle.

thank you .
the dragon was the customer company logo which was requested