Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters annealing question for JB

I'm pretty sure the method the OP described uses a candle. The "JB Method" uses a candle. If you think a candle is the same as a propane torch as far as the speed with which it heats the brass or the temperatures yielded, that's not my problem.

As far as the original question goes, I usually do not see a color change from the candle method. Now, how much annealing is taking place? Who knows, but the cases are obviously softer when I trim/chamfer and I don't split necks, so it must be working.

I did have to laugh at all the answers you got about how to anneal NOT using the candle method. I'm sure that helped you immensely.

To the OP:

I only started annealing a few years ago and my method is a propane torch and a small container of water.

My guess is that you are close to being perfect. Remember that a fast rate of cooling is nearly as important as the temperature. You want to freeze the alloy in an amorphous state.

I worked in a solder factory for a number of years and saw a lot of similar situations with copper alloys. It was hard keeping 3 shifts running the same amount of this or that, but the quality of the end-product remained high. I once did a study of the annealing of our wire and found a huge difference between the inner parts of a spool and the outer (we're talking 500 lb spools). However, the wire that came off the spool ended up being equally workable.

As far as rifle cartridge brass goes, this runs counter to what I've read in a couple of different places, from people who know their stuff including JB and the instructional video below from Anneal-Rite:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EXLPGcSNyUs

I'm not JB

But I suspect I've annealed well over 100K 223 cases over the years.

Propane torch, spin em in my fingers in a dark room until I see the red color coming on which is also getting fairly hot to my fingers, drop in bucket/bowel of water on the kitchen table.

Never had a problem. And I had to have good accuracy and case life for my uses.

dropping the cases in water will not hurt but it is not necessary to stop the heat suddenly for cartridge brass...

I previously spun them in my fingers, but for the last several years do it differently. I made a simple shell holder with a deep socket and spin it in a cordless drill. I anneal it with a propane torch in a dark room until the neck just begins to change color. It then get dumped in a dry bucket, no quenching here. Propane torch here as well. Works well for me.

Just got back from a hunting trip and have several comments:

1) NO, THE CANDLE METHOD IS NOT MY METHOD. I have repeatedly written that it was developed by Fred Barker, who wrote an article for Precision Shooting about using Tempilaq and hand-holding the case over a candle to develop an uncomplicated method of annealing that works.

Fred did NOT say it was the fastest method, but he did enough testing to make sure it worked. He also did NOT adjust the hold according to the length of the brass, because all finger-holding it does is assure the case head doesn't over-heat. Holding any case halfway down works, because the method "adjusts" for the length ad thickness of the case.

2) If you want to anneal faster a torch works better, but the color of the brass (either during or after heating) is a poor indicator of success. Both tend toward over-annealing. Any sort of temp-indicator paint works better.

In fact cartridge brass can anneal at 500 degrees if heated long enough. The 700-750 degree temp usually used is where it anneals fastest--but if you heat it too fast it will also tend to over-anneal and become too soft, because the zinc in the alloy starts to melt out. That's why the neck/shoulder area of over-annealed brass tends to change color.

Some factory brass is somewhat over-annealed, because a softer neck allows the brass to be loaded more times before it requires annealing. But that doesn't mean softer brass will be more accurate than brass annealed not as soft, more frequently.

3) The only reason for water-quenching is to keep the head from over-heating and hence annealing. If you stand the HEADS of cases in water it won't, and it also won't if you hold it halfway up the body and drop it. But there's no reason to quench the neck after heating.

Wow. I stand corrected.

Learn something new every day.

John

Thanks for the response and the good info. I hope you had a great trip.
This thread got pretty out of hand, I'm glad you set the record straight. Sorry if I started people thinking this was your personal method, I posted that you described the method in your book, guess I shouldn't have been so obtuse.

Thanks again

Brandon

Brandon,

No problem. I always mention that Fred Barker developed the method and published an article about it, but people still tend to call it my method, probably because more people have read my writing on it than Fred's lone article in a small-circulation magazine.

Brass is interesting stuff, one of the few metal alloys that doesn't require quenching after annealing.