24hourcampfire.com
24hourcampfire.com
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 7,578
U
utah708 Offline OP
Campfire Outfitter
OP Offline
Campfire Outfitter
U
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 7,578
I ended up with a maple stock blank for a Mannlicher stock I am building for a LH Zastava in 7x57. But it is just too blonde for my tastes.

[Linked Image]

It has a very powerful fiddleback from one end to the other, however.
[Linked Image]

So I am learning how to use aquafortis, a nitric acid-based solution that chemically changes the wood. I got several pieces of wood from the same plank that my stock came out of, and after several tries, seem to be getting the hang of it.

Untreated wood above, treated below. No stain, just the aquafortis.
[Linked Image]
The key is learning how much to apply, and then heating it to cause the chemical reaction to occur (called blushing, apparently.) There is a very scary green phase you have to work your way through--for a little while it looks like you have ruined your project.


As more of a curiousity, here is a really creepy outcome from one of my earlier attempts, that involved some red stain.

[Linked Image]

That weird face was not there when I started.

BP-B2

Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 6,708
C
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
C
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 6,708
Stain and aquafortis do not go well together. If stain is to be used, I apply it after the aquafortis.


Old Corps

Semper Fi

Get off my lawn.

FJB
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 11,997
O
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
O
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 11,997
THAT will look sharp when you get it finished....



Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 621
R
RAN Offline
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
R
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 621
Any of the modern alcohol or water base stains is much more predictable than aqua fortis and a hell of a lot less dangerous to use. Red mahogany stain works very well on maple to give that reddish walnut tone everybody wants.

RAN

Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,938
O
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
O
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,938
Make a 8-10% solution of potassium permanganate and use on walnut or maple - you would be extremely surprised.


AKA The P-Man smile

If you cherish your memories with kids, be a good role model . . . . so the RIGHT memories of you mean something to them.
IC B2

Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 7,263
T
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
T
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 7,263
Great results on that one sample. I think the scary face is telling you to forget that stain. I haven't done that many pieces but seems like a good idea to neutralize with a baking soda wash down afterwards. Go darker than you want as it will need at least minor whiskering after the flush.

I have seen birch and maple go almost black after being finished and I assumed it was either too strong an application or not neutralized afterward.

Nothing gives the depth like Aquafortis, use the stains or permanganate to add color after the acid treatment. Or add some steel wool to the Aquafortis and test on scrap for more red hues.

It will get even better with some linseed oil. I would do a couple of coats of artist oil first regardless of the final finish used. Rub it off really well and let dry for a week or two before starting the final finish. Good to let it get hot in the sun or a drying cabinet to make sure the oil won't weep. With Maple the pores are usually tight enough this doesn't happen. Aquafortis will get darker in the sun, Permanganate will get lighter.

Seal all bedding areas well including screw holes as even when neutralized it can still be acidic enough to start corrosion at the contact points.

And please post pics of the results.


"When you disarm the people, you commence to offend them and show that you distrust them either through cowardice or lack of confidence, and both of these opinions generate hatred." Niccolo Machiavelli
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 7,578
U
utah708 Offline OP
Campfire Outfitter
OP Offline
Campfire Outfitter
U
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 7,578
I appreciate all of the comments, especially those about neutralizing the acid. Certainly don't want this to be like a Browning salt gun.

The barreled action came back from the gunsmith, and I have more work to do than I intended, so it will be a while before I can finish the stock. But project photos will be posted as they become available.

Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 2,183
J
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
J
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 2,183
utah708,
Here is a thread from an other site that has lots of information on achieving what you are looking for:

http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/31269/post/31407/fromsearch/1/#31407

Pay particular attention to the posts by "Zonie" about using lye to achieve the depth and contrast that you are talking about. Zonie is an aeronautical engineer and builds really beautiful stuff. He is very helpful and will answer questions if you send him a PM.

Good luck on the project - that looks like it will be a beautiful stock when finished.


“My horn is full and my pouch is stocked with ball and patch. There is a new, sharp flint in my lock and my rifle and I are ready. It is sighted true and my eyes can still aim.”
Kaywoodie
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 7,578
U
utah708 Offline OP
Campfire Outfitter
OP Offline
Campfire Outfitter
U
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 7,578
That sounds like an excellent lead, but I cannot access it until I become a member, which I will do.

Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 2,183
J
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
J
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 2,183
Sorry about that. I forgot that you have to be a member. It is a good site and the m/ship is free. If you do a search for aquafortis you will find a lot of info.


“My horn is full and my pouch is stocked with ball and patch. There is a new, sharp flint in my lock and my rifle and I are ready. It is sighted true and my eyes can still aim.”
Kaywoodie
IC B3

Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 671
F
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
F
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 671
Take about 4 or 5 tea bags and boil the heck out of them. Then take a brush and cover the stock. That provides tannic acid to the stock.
Next put the stock into a small enclosed area like a box, and fill a small container with ammonia. The ammonia will impact with the tannic acid and give the color you are looking for . It especially works well with fiddleback as the contrast is great. Try it on a sample and see what it does to maple.

I have used this method on numerous maple stocks.

Last edited by FredWillis; 04/18/14.
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 637
A
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
A
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 637
Originally Posted by FredWillis
Take about 4 or 5 tea bags and boil the heck out of them. Then take a brush and cover the stock. That provides tannic acid to the stock.
Next put the stock into a small enclosed area like a box, and fill a small container with ammonia. The ammonia will impact with the tannic acid and give the color you are looking for . It especially works well with fiddleback as the contrast is great. Try it on a sample and see what it does to maple.

I have used this method on numerous maple stocks.


[Linked Image]

Ammonia fuming is what I used on the A5 above.
Be forewarned. The process is not reversible. Unlike stains and dyes, it cannot be sanded off. The wood will be altered through and through.


"There are three kinds of men
Those who learn by reading
The few who learn by observing
The rest have to pee on the
electric fence and find out
for themselves."
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 671
F
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
F
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 671
That is one of the best pieces of maple I have laid eyes on. The fuming is a very good job.

I was wondering how long you let the ammonia work on that stock.

Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 637
A
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
A
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 637
I have Cecil Fredi to thank for the quality of that blank set.

I left that one in over night while at work, so a bit more than eight hours. More than likely the complete color shift only took 4-5 hours though.


"There are three kinds of men
Those who learn by reading
The few who learn by observing
The rest have to pee on the
electric fence and find out
for themselves."
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,367
D
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
D
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,367
Just a voyeur here - and I read these posts with interest and respect for the talent and innovation. Gotta dumb question though:
Using acids, ammonia etc, don't you have to neutralize it in some way to keep these chemicals from attacking the metal?

We all recall that some time back someone used salt in the preparation/preservation of Browning stocks. Lot'a unhappiness over that after the firearms were put into service.

Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 671
F
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
F
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 671
I know little about chemistry, and therefore always put the a stocks into the box without the metal. And no, the ammonia just needs to be removed and any acidic action. By the way, oak is colored very nicely as it has tannic acid naturally.

Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 7,578
U
utah708 Offline OP
Campfire Outfitter
OP Offline
Campfire Outfitter
U
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 7,578
When using aquafortis, it is standard practice to neutralize it with a base. And Johnny Dollar was right with his suggestion to go to muzzleloadingforum.com--the traditional muzzleloader builders have a lot of experience with maple.


Moderated by  RickBin 

Link Copied to Clipboard
YB23

Who's Online Now
506 members (007FJ, 10gaugeman, 17CalFan, 160user, 10ring1, 1lesfox, 47 invisible), 2,243 guests, and 1,016 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Statistics
Forums81
Topics1,187,596
Posts18,398,171
Members73,815
Most Online11,491
Jul 7th, 2023


 







Fish & Game Departments | Solunar Tables | Mission Statement | Privacy Policy | Contact Us | DMCA
Hunting | Fishing | Camping | Backpacking | Reloading | Campfire Forums | Gear Shop
Copyright © 2000-2024 24hourcampfire.com, Inc. All Rights Reserved.
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5
(Release build 20201027)
Responsive Width:

PHP: 7.3.33 Page Time: 0.154s Queries: 14 (0.003s) Memory: 0.8718 MB (Peak: 0.9945 MB) Data Comp: Zlib Server Time: 2024-03-28 12:22:12 UTC
Valid HTML 5 and Valid CSS