Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Custom Rifles & Wildcats How many use 30-06 cases to make 280 AI cases

I got a nice Springfield chambered in 280 AI in trade a month or so ago. It came with dies and a bunch of fireformed and standard 280 brass. And 15 or so loaded rounds. Yesterday I shortened the 26 inch barrel to 22.5 inches and crowned it. Today I inspected all the fired fireformed brass to find most had begun to split mid body. The loaded rounds had the 150 gr. Ballistic Tips seated way to far out to be fed thru the magazine. This I think an attempt to hold the case against the bolt face during firing. A standard 280 case offered no resistance to being chambered. Drat so I find some once fired 30-06 cases and size them until the bolt closes with a very snug feeling. I fired 5 shots using 52.0 grs. of H414 under a 140 gr. Hornady Spire point and the brass looks just fine. Just wondering how many 280 AI shooters have to do this.

Depends who chambered it. Do a chamber cast and compare to specs. Check headspace too.

If the chamber is dead on an 06 will probably have too thick a neck and be too short.

If so you can buy AI brass or fireform Rem 280s.

Shame you chopped it, now you have a 7mm08 w/a 26" bbl.

I dont use 30-06 brass,I just use new brass now (280). Sounds like you might want to check the Head space. The shoulder is a little more foward on 280 vs 30-06, 280=2.199, 30-06=2.109, 270=2.156. I dont want the brass stretching anymore than it has two. A while back I used once fired 270 brass and had the same issue your seeing. Have been using new 280 Nosler brass with no problems.

TEXMAG

The chamber is long. The neck on the case made from 30-06 brass is a perfectly usable length. Could have been the guy who made the first set of brass set his size die too short and caused the problem but headspace is .004 long. Probably a case of minimum brass fired in a slightly over max chamber length chamber. Actually using 30-06 brass by headspacing on the step left when you size it was done a heck of a lot when 280 brass was not all that common. The 7MM Gibbs was made the same way from 06 brass as there was no 280 brass at the time. Chopping the barrel made it into a much handier piece, costing me around 150 fps. I would have virtually no use for it with a 26 inch barrel.

Get some 280 brass,the 06 brass will be to short after fireforming!

I'm telling you that I have some 280 brass. You actually think a case neck length of slightly over bullet diameter is too short? I can only say that Ackley in his plan to also be able to use factory 280 brass gave up a grain or so of powder capacity for this "convenience". Thickness if the brass at the neck is the same .012.

I think what folks are saying is that you'll end up with brass that's quite a bit shorter than trim-to-length. Maybe 20 to 30 thou shorther than that. Some folks get their panties all wadded up about that - not me. I think their concern is that the exposed neck part of the chamber (no brass to "protect" it) is somehow going to disintegrate.

As others have stated, I think your chamber was cut too long. Were I in your shoes, I would either have the barrel set back and re-chambered with correct headspace for an AI, or just do as you have done and size 30-06 cases down to form a false shoulder. I don't think the short neck will hurt a thing. I used to use 7 mag brass for my .257 Wby. The necks were a little shorter, but that seemed to have no adverse effects.

John

Betcha that stuff that is splitting was formed using a bullet seated long and hard into lands rather than by leaving the 30 cal neck long as false shoulder for crush fit. They'd still stretch w/ bullet seated long.

Sounds to me like you have a handle on what needs doin right. I am expecting to receive a 280 AI right now and had prepped some LC Match 06 cases for forming until I found a bunch of 7mm Exp stamped cases here in the classifieds.

The short neck of the 06 doesn't bother me, but the ease of forming from 280/7mm Exp is appealing.

Well I shot all twenty of my rounds a bit ago. They look perfect and 15 shots from the cases I was fireforming went into 1 1/4 inch and I was getting used to a too light trigger pull (for a hunting rifle anyway). The five I had aready fireformed and loaded again made a ragged hole of 3/4". Now I have to decide on a powder charge using H414. I really don't need much more horsepower than the 52.0 grs. of H414 provides but I would like to up pressures into normal operating range. I guess I could work up a grain at a time, find out where max begins and back off. Will report back.

Well max isn't that important to me. I worked up a grain at a time till I reached 55.0 grs. of H414 with the 140 gr. Hornady Spire point. Absolutely no sign of excess anything but these two rounds hit the bull dead center and I had to walk up to the target to make sure two bullets did the deed. By guestimate I figure I am getting near 2900 fps out of my 22.5 inch barrel. More than enough for the under 200 yard deer and feral pig hunting I do. I also shot a couple of 150 gr. Ballistic Tips on top of 52.5 grs. on H414. These two landed a half inch apart an inch low and right at 4 oclock. Probably getting around 2700 fps with this. Still my favorite rifle for the last 15 years for hunting in Texas has been a 19 inch barreled 7x57. Never chronographed I figure I have been running 2500 fps with various 150 and 160 grain bullets with nothing but great success. If this rifle had been chambered in 7x57 I would have been just as happy but my 7MM/06 Ackley Improved will offer a bit more when I take it out of state, something I have never done with the short 7x57.

Whenever I am working with a round that requires a false shoulder to fit the chamber, I anneal the neck area and uniform the necks minimally, before I start the forming process. New brass doesn't need to be annealed.

When the case is finished, the hardness of the brass in the neck is about right, and the cases don't split. The necks will grow over a few firings, and once the brass is fire-formed to fit the chamber, chamber headspace is irrelevant. In every case, the reloader has total control over cartridge headspace with every round fired, and that is all that matters.

This is useful with virgin belted cases as well, as they mostly come universally short from the factory.

I was told by a very reputable smith that using brass that is to short can lead to problems, like shooting 06 brass and having the carbon build up in front of the case mouth, then by using 280 brass that is longer a person can have pressure and accuracy issues, since the case mouth is riding on a buildup of carbon, he said to pick your trim length and be consistant, I had no reason to doubt him!

Carbon buildup in front of the case mouth? Just clean your rifle every 40 rounds or so. By the way my overall length is only .030 under the cases formed from 280 cases. Considering COAL is usually + or - .010 then the OAL is actually only .020 under what the 280 runs, hardly an issue. Your reputable gunsmith may be like many others, practically non shooters without experience loading wildcat cartridges. He might be a great gunsmith though. I have also made and worn out a bunch of 30-06 brass using it to make 270 shells. Never a problem.

You can use whatever case suits your fancy, try a Sinclair chamber length guage sometime and then get back to me on how much actual space there is between your 06 case and a 280AI chamber!

I thought we were talking about overall case length. Yes there is certainly a difference between where the shoulder of the 30-06 case is and where it is on a 280 or 280AI case. Once the 30-06 case is fireformed the difference disapears. I use the step created on the neck when you run the 06 case into a 280 AI FL die to headspace on. This is a common practice for many wildcat cartridges.

At any rate I made 20 more cases from Winchester brass yesterday. Still surprised just how well fireform loads shoot. I loaded some with the Hornady 139 and some with the 140 gr. Nosler Ballistic Tips and shot various cans of veggies I found in a totebox I packed for an antelope hunt 8 years ago and didn't use. The Ballistic Tips seemed to disintegrate the cans while the Hornady bullets showed more controlled expansion. An old leaky can of spam was turned into a smelly spray when hit with a Ballistic Tip. I also found that the 140 gr. Nosler Partition, the 139gr. Hornady Spire point and the 140 gr. Ballistic Tips hit so close to one another I could use all three with the same sight in. I also found the fireforming load hit about an inch lower than my top load in the fireformed cases. It is all good so far.

We were....

Back in the late 70's we had to use .270 Winchester brass, easy to form and primer pockets stayed tight. We had to, no 280 brass to be found...

Out come the calipers again. The average of my cases made from 30-06 brass, Winchester is 2.485 OAL, The average for the cases made from 280 Remington brass is 2.520. One case made from Remington brass went 2.495. The three cases made from Federal brass are all 2.490. There will be no difference in performance from any of this ammo using either case. Or any problems associated with "carbon buildup".

Hey, sounds like you had this all figured out in the first place? Don't know why you asked the your question? IF you want to use stretched out short necked fire formed 30-06 brass in your rifle go ahead none of us said you couldn't. But hey I am the kind of guy that wouldn't let a friend you put lipstick on a pig and take her on a date either. A false shoulder does not stop the amount of brass that needs to move foward to fire form the 30-06 brass, hence making the webbing area thin as you have already seen. One good case head seperation will make you come around.

TEXMAG

If you go back and read the thread no one has made your point at all. The only argument against using 30-06 cases in 280 AI has had to do w/ the finished product being short OAL-wise, leaving a gap in the chamber.

I have never heard your assertion before; I've always been told that a false shoulder would remedy the issue.

Thanks for adding this; it puts a new spring on the "debate".

One other thing, a little extra head space on a standard chamber is not really a big deal as someone brought up before. You can adjust your dies to deal with it and the brass will stretch to the size of the chamber. On a wildcat where you are pushing the limits of the brass by fire forming it already the extra head space might cause the brass to fail or crack around the webbing area. Safety for yourself and your fellow shooters should be your #1 priority.Do use all a favor spend a few dollars and have the barrel set back to the minimum head space 280AI or even better for you a 7mm-06 AI chamber. Then you might really have a Wildcat since 280AI is not.

TEXMAG

Ran my 280AI for years with cases formed from WW 270 brass. Never an issue. Even after 9-10 loadings on them. H414 may be a good powder for the AI but IMO you need to give VV N165 a go. 140NAB from a 24 3/4" tube got me 3206fps with no pressure and was a consistent .5MOA shooter.

last time I check 270 case length was 2.540" and 280 case length 2.540" only problem with 270 case body length is same as 30-06.

I'd rather use 270 brass as it actually will not leave the gap an 06 case will!

By gap are you saying that by extending the gap between the case mouth and bore diameter .025 has a negative effect? You do know that virtually every barrel has some space between the end of the case and the beginning of bore diameter. The reason I used 30-06 brass instead of 270 brass is that I could just neck it down and have the false shoulder to headspace on, rather than necking the 270 brass up to .307 ID and then back down to .283 ID. Having the barrel set back and rechambered would spend $100. for no reason. I might still use the easy to get 30-06 brass for cases anyway.

It is true that when fireforming you move the shoulder forward .051 with the 270 and 30-06 cases which is a pretty small amount actually. You are "stretching out" the shoulder area when using 280 brass also forward and to a larger diameter also.

My 280AI was a Borden built, tight neck chamber that I purchased from Tim Claunch. Thats the case he was using. I have absolutely no reason to doubt he knows reloading. Those here that are familiar with him, know he is a very accomplished shooter

BS - I've formed hundreds of 30 Gibbs cases from '06 and Whelen brass using a false shoulder to control headspace. I've never, ever had an incipient case/head separation. The brass simply doesn't move FORWARD, it moves BACKWARD, and thus the shorter case. I lube the front half of the case with WD-40 so that friction between the case and chamber walls are reduced.

What about forming plain 280 Remington brass from 30-06 cases? I've been doing this with Lapua brass and have seen no issues. Another thing, I think if most chambers were measured you would find a lot are excessively long in the neck anyway.

Agreed

I have done the same thing by running 280 brass over a 308 expander then running it through the 280 die until I get a tight fit. I think the only thing this accomplishes is give you the proper head stamp and a couple more thousandths case length.

To me the proper headstamp would be 280 AI but it is pretty obvious to most that a 280 AI is not a 280 remington or a 30-06.