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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Never seen a Colt Upper be as accurate as a custom barrel...
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Joined: Nov 2004
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Campfire Tracker
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at they worth the money?? if you spending 1k on just the upper I would say emphatically hell no it aint worth it. aren't the barrels pac nor barrels?? if so that is better than most but in my mind not really any better than a wilson barrel on a RRA. With that much money to spend your options pretty much explode. my upper would be full custom I would probably have a gunsmith turn my barrel to a custom contour. With a full custom you can save money on parts that don't matter that much. for example palmetto often has blem uppers for $39 bucks, I bought a bolt carrier and charging handle for $89, bolt is carpenter 158. mid west gen 2 ss rail, which BTW I like alot better than what noveske has for sale. Then I am going with a custom krieger barrel. If there is too much metal under the handguard I would have a gunsmith turn it down a bit. 750 gas block stepping to .825 under the handguard and behind the gas block to the barrel shank. further I would ad once you have owned a high quailty barrel like a krieger or the other CUT rifled barrels you will understand how much better they are.
We have had this debate tons of times some people just say buy a colt when telling new people what to buy others say buy a noveske. To all that I say if you actually shoot your gun enough to need all the mil spec and upgrades in materials your probably going to know what you want in your gun and are going to demand a custom with the parts you spec. so my point is save your money buy a lower end gun and spend time with ammo and learn what you want your AR 15 to do. then spend the money on the good parts YOU want.
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Joined: Nov 2006
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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Learning what you need and want by shooting is a smart answer but then what would we discuss here?  asking for advice is not a bad idea either we just have too many different opinions to get one answer. There are moderately priced parts that work, no doubt but some don't. Top end gear is expensive but I've yet to see a custom barrel or gear for that matter disappoint.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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I thought Noveske made their barrels? I did not think they used Pac nor but I could be wrong. Pac Nor is an ok barrel but nothign stupendous.
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Campfire Tracker
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from what I understand, Noveske barrels are made at Pac-Nor, but Noveske supplies the materials and pays the crew instead of just buying blanks. not sure why...
Guns don't kill people, drivers with cell phones kill people.
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Joined: Nov 2006
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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Ever seen a PacNor polygonal barrel?
John Noveske worked for PacNor and the two companies have a working relationship.
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Campfire Regular
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After a lot of reading a while back, I gathered that Noveske and makes their own barrels but uses PacNor equipment when they clock out.
I don't think Noveske is the be all, end all AR barrel, but they are very nice.
Last edited by CBMJR; 04/20/14.
John 8:12 "I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness, but will have the light of life."
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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From an interview with John Noveske in 2008. He says that Noveske buys their own steel and has PacNor employees machine them to Noveske specs with Noveske tooling. LINK Crane: Right, o.k., now you�re double-chrome-lining your barrels, or some of your barrels, not the stainless steel barrels, but the�
Noveske: The N4 Light Carbine and N4 Light Recce barrels.
Crane: Light Carbine barrels. You�re double chromin� �em, and obviously, you must be getting a pretty nice even chrome job on there.
Noveske: Yes. I have a tolerance that is equal to a match-grade barrel.
Crane: Equal to a stainless barrel?
r lclp 556 3d <! :en >Noveske Rifleworks N4 Light Recce Carbine: John Noveske Interview, Part One<! : >
Noveske: Well, that doesn�t mean anything, because there�s a lot of different makers of stainless barrels, but there is a kind of an unspoken match-grade tolerance in the custom barrel world of 2/10ths of a thousoundth concentricity, or�in uniformity of bore diameter from end to end, and I spec that out on my chrome-lined barrels.
Crane: Are you the only guy that�s double-chrome-lining �em?
Noveske: That�s not the right [terminology]. "Double-chrome-lining" implies that I�m chroming twice. I�m chroming once to the technical data package requirements for the M249 machine gun [FN M249 Squad Automatic Weapon a.k.a. FN M249 SAW], which call out for a chrome thickness that is approximately twice the thickness of an M16 or an M4.
Crane: The barrels that we�re talkin� about are Pac-Nor.
Noveske: Our stainless barrels are made partially in ourshop and partially in Pac-Nor�s shop. And, the relationship that I have with Pac-Nor�I used to work there, and now what�s goin� on is I buy steel, I take it to Pac-Nor, when the guys clock out of Pac-Nor, they clock into our barrel production. They machine my blanks with our tooling, which is all made to our design, including the drills, reamers, button, so forth, so on. They stress-relieve to our recipe, and then they give the barrels back to us, and then we finish them all in our shop.
Crane: What type of stainless are they using?
Noveske: Well, they use 416 project 70. I use a different type of material.
Crane: And what about the standard steel barrels? What kind of steel is that?
Noveske: Let me back up. You can�t call the barrel that we make a Pac-Nor barrel, because if you call Pac-Nor and order a stainless barrel, it�s gonna� be much different. It�s gonna� be different in every way from the barrel I sell. So when you say "what kind of materal do they use?", last time I checked, Pac-Nor uses 416 project 70 made by Carpenter, and I use a different material which is technically considered 416R, and it�s a lot harder than any stainless we�ve ever tested from other manufacturers. Our stainless comes in around 32 on the Rockwell C scale, and that�s harder even than the call-out for the M16 barrel.
Crane: And the standard barrel that�s being chrome-lined, the non-stainless-steel barrel, what kind of steel is that?
Noveske: That�s the same steel that�s in the technical data package requirement for the M249.
Crane: And what is that?
Noveske: Well, I�m not gonna� talk about what it is, specfiically.
your flippant remarks which you so adeptly sling
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Interesting. Wonder if they are better than Pac Nor?
I shot Pac Nor for a long time and they are good tubes. They never were Krieger/Rock/Obermeyer though. But won a LOT of matches with them on the guns. And its probably mostly related that I'm comparing button tubes to cut rifle tubes and have never been totally happy with button tubes.
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Thanks for the info Blue.
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Campfire Outfitter
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I've never heard of anyone being unhappy with a Noveske barrel. If I were to build my comp upper again, I'd get a barrel from MSTN. They have 16" Intermediate gas and 17" Rifle gas Noveske barrels. Light, accurate and smoooooooth.
your flippant remarks which you so adeptly sling
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,474
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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You know one of these days I'm going to use that float tube and put a barrel on to come play with you... hoping in the next 5 years.... settle on the best barrel for the sport by then... LOL.
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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the double chromed barrels are made by FN are they not?
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the double chromed barrels are made by FN are they not? Yes, the last I heard they were M249 blanks machined and finished to Noveske specs. For an accurate chrome lined barrel, I hear great things about Criterion. I am going to try one of their 16" hybrid CL barrels on my next AR.
Last edited by CBMJR; 04/22/14.
John 8:12 "I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness, but will have the light of life."
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Joined: Jan 2005
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Thats not what the articles say, at least what I read... says same spec, and done on PN machinery by employees to Noveske spec, but material same spec as 249...
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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I've never heard of anyone being unhappy with a Noveske barrel.. Allow me to be the first.... 18" 308 barrel on a MA10 build. It was a 1.5-2.0 MOA $600 barrel. Hugely disappointed and will never buy another. Sold it after several hundred rounds of load development. Now I run a mixmaster 308 I built and a JP 308. Both shoot circles around the Noveske barrel.
RLTW
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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The chromed Noveske barrels are they not the same barrels made by FN that Palmetto State Armory uses?
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Joined: Jan 2005
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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I've never heard of anyone being unhappy with a Noveske barrel.. Allow me to be the first.... 18" 308 barrel on a MA10 build. It was a 1.5-2.0 MOA $600 barrel. Hugely disappointed and will never buy another. Sold it after several hundred rounds of load development. Now I run a mixmaster 308 I built and a JP 308. Both shoot circles around the Noveske barrel. Hopefully you sent it back so they could replace it? Even Krieger puts out a bad tube now and then. But you always give the manufacturer the option.. But Schneider or Lilja, I forget which, refused to replace an undertwisted tube for a buddy once.... ordered X twist, would not shoot heavy bullets, then checked twistt... was off and they refused IIRC< or at least they refused to pay for the smith work to get one off and the other one or such.
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Barrel makers are out front with each and every tube they sale. The next barrel could be a dude and if the wrong customer gets it, WOW it can do a lot of harm.
On 3 separate occasions I had an issue with a new barrel. In all of these cases the 3 different manufacturers addressed the problem to my satisfaction.
That kind of response seems pretty typical in this industry provided we approach the issue in a civil and rational way.
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The chromed Noveske barrels are they not the same barrels made by FN that Palmetto State Armory uses? I think FN makes those barrels for each company. But that doesn't mean they're the same barrel. FN could manufacture a barrel with different quality or specs for different builders.
your flippant remarks which you so adeptly sling
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