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Have crossed the USA/Canada borders around 20+ times. In every crossing, the Canadian border guards were consistently friendly and helpful, no exceptions.

Now with the USA guards, and there are about twice as many as the Canadian guards, some were helpful and about a third acted like they were doing you a favor by letting you get back to the States. Every time I saw a USA guard being a jerk, or uninterested despite a line of people waiting to get in, I was embarrassed for my country.

It's pretty sad.

Steve

There's jerks on both sides Sir.

It is my understanding that DUI or DWI is treated in Canada to be a more serious offence than it is in the USA. I'm not sure if you are suggesting that the refusal of entry may be related to criminal offences other than drinking offences or not. As I am not a lawyer I certainly do not understand the technicalities involved here.

I do know that the first time I was at an outfitters and he had clients refused entry they told the outfitter specifically the refusal was related to a prior drinking offence. Since the first time I believe I have heard of two other such instances from outfitters. The outfitters tell me they advise their potential clients to check with border officials prior to arriving if they have any criminal(?) background and usually specifically mention to the potential client about prior drinking convictions.

It is on this background that I based my comments.

Jim

I bet I've been across the border several 100 times at least...

only a few times has it been a negative experience...and that has been on both sides of the border...

but I admit, I quit flying for a living after 2001, due to my last name being profiled.. which precluded that I give give up my job as a regional manager working for the Company in Canada I was employed by.. ( but they sold the division, and I declined the job offer by the new owners)....

with new laws and being divorced from the bitch from hell, I can't even cross the border into Canada any more....but it still doesn't take away from the fact, that our neighbors to the north are still some of the best folks on the planet...
no matter how wacky some of them can get at times...

Jim,

I have explained this before, but in the USA, DWI is a criminal offence, as it is in Canada. However, in the USA, if I have it right, most DWI is a misdemeanor, whereas in Canada, the classification of impaired driving is a dual procedure offence. Dula procedure means the Crown Attorney gets to make the call as to how it is prosecuted -- either by summary conviction, what the USA calls a misdemeanor, or by indictment, what the USA calls a felony.

Because in Canada, a dual procedure offence like impaired driving is viewed generally in its more serious iteration, the criminal record shows a conviction that may have been for an indictable offence, and so it is considered a felony for Americans trying to come accross the border.

Canada's dual procedure offences are considered indictable (felonies) for the purposes of arrest. Makes them more serious.

ANY criminal record, IIRC can turn a person back. DWI is just one that is seen more often. In our small town, we used to see 300 DWI's in a year. That's 300 people who wouldn't normally have had a criminal record getting the status every year.

Don't know if that helps or confuses. Hope it helps.

I experienced the same surprise at Saskatoon airport customs, and I had previously been through Canadian customs at Calgary and Edmonton. Saskatoon is tough.

Back in 1965, I was driving with 3 friends in my car and one of them who was on leave from the Navy wanted to go to a red light area. We did and he got into an argument with two street walkers (there was some cursing) at the next traffic signal the cops pulled in behind us with the emergency lights on. They said the two ladies were going to press charges for verbal assault, and we had some beer in the car and were under 21. They took us to jail but released us the next morning saying the two street walkers were not pressing charges and the police didn't press charges about the beer either (we were not drunk) I never considered that I had a criminal record for all of these years because there were no charges filed for anything, ever!

When I was drafted into the Army later the same year, I mentioned this, they checked and didn't find a record, and it didn't keep me from being drafted. It has never stopped me from buying guns through the FBI check, I have passed other security checks including ExxonMobil and BP, So I was really surprised the Saskatoon airport customs had a problem with me when in previous years there had been no problem at Calgary or Edmonton.

I believe there is a difference of perception about what is a CRIMINAL. In America, it seems to be if there has been a conviction, or possibly filed on for something.
In Canada it seems to be if you were ever taken to a police station for anything.

I am in the process of having this expounged, the expungement attorney couldn't find any records of this but continued to pursue because and eventually found it in the county archives on some microfilm, but only because I gave him the precise month and year.

So fellow Americans if you have ever been taken to a police station, it would be wise not to go to Saskatoon.

OceanBlue, interesting post. Some of those who have crossed the border without trouble will not believe it could happen to them but those with ears can hear you.

A couple of years ago a business that I worked with in Canada was buying a product from the US that required a trainer to come up and train the employees. A gracious grey haired international traveler and trainer was their man and he made two preliminary trips to our office in Canada. No problem.

When he came to do the week of training he was turned back at the border by a chippy border gal. In spite of letters etc. they had previously approved, the gal and her superiors dug in their heels and refused him entry when we brought his full documentation the next day. They had combed his history and found a teenage drinking event (he was 57 years old) and that was the nail in the coffin. Refused entry. That is now in his file if he ever tries to cross the border again.

FWIW we did the training in Bellingham, WA. We cancelled lodging and meals in Canada and paid for them in the US, plus more for trainee meals down there. I'm sure that Canadian businesses and the cancelled hotel appreciated being protected from having this guy spend money in Canada, but that is a side issue.

Travel to Canada most every summer to northern SK. So glad I never screwed up so bad as to get a DUI in my younger years.

I worked with a gentleman from Regina who had previously worked as an LEO in Regina. He explained to me that the database available to customs and border officials in CAN is unbelievable. They have access to most everything.

I hosted a group of people into Alberta from Texas to look at some eqt at a college in Airdrie. We got pulled in for secondary questioning as we had 4 adult males and 2 adult females. Most of us unrelated from a total of 2 different states. We were asked if any of us had ever been convicted of crime in US. I had to admit to a minor game violation and an open container while walking on a street, not driving. Another guy was confronted that he hadn't admitted to an assault charge from 40+ years prior. His father was a district judge and had the record expunged, yet they still had access to the records.

As to DUI or other offenses, my impression is that the border official has a great deal of latitude in handling these matters. Which is why I am completely civil, polite and respectful whenever I come to a border crossing. Because being denied entry today can have long lasting issues in the future when you want to enter CAN at a later date.

Tarkio--I tell my clients that if Sister Ann Michele slapped your butt in 3rd grade for speaking out of turn the border guards have access to it before they even ask for your Id.

I know a number of people who have gotten the pardon thingy but the pardon thing does not delete the record.

The first agent you speak to does have a great deal of latitude--but if he or she denies your entry--no one--not no one will overturn that decision.

I agree with you on the comment regarding no one changing what the previous agent did.

My understanding is that if I get denied entry today, it can actually impact my attempt to enter again next week, next month etc.

NCIC and CPIC are the two criminal name indeces that all enforcement and border patrol officers have access to. It takes literally seconds to retrieve the data from either of them. Deal is - - - tell the truth. The truth may not get you across the borser to the north, but a lie, if detected will surely get you sent south.

BTW -- same goes for Canucks heading south. Criminal record can get you denied entrance to the states.

Absolutely. Absolute truth and a pleasant demeanor will get you as far as you could possibly go. Lying or acting rudely will end your trip prematurely.

Ditto that! Anyone would be a fool to show anger or rudeness to someone who has total control over your fate at that moment.

Re the rest of the officers backing their first man's call:

I was turned back from entering Canada once even though I lived there when a young overbearing summer border intern(?) in the booth made a mistake about vehicle registration. He warned me not to try to cross the border in that vehicle somewhere else because I would be arrested and the vehicle impounded. They had a more senior officer walk beside my driver side door as I drove slowly back to the US checkpoint. It wasn't a huge deal to me, slight inconvenience to fix. I smiled at the escort cop and said, "Your man made a mistake and you all have to back him." The man did not say a word but his expression confirmed that exactly.

The US border guys laughed a gut buster at the whole deal.

FWIW we have it pretty good going both ways. Bulgarian border guards were so rude in a long series of sequential stops that a Bulgarian business woman travelling with me apologized for the rudeness of her country.

A tough looking Pakistani military officer looked at my Canadian passport, pulled me out of line, chewed me out and sent me to the back of the longest line to passport control. When I got to the front of the line, he pulled me out and put me at the back of the longest line again! My travelling partner went right through with his US passport. We never had any idea what that was about.

Nigerian passport control held us for nearly two hours hoping for a bribe. We'd been briefed and told that our best solution was to stay cheerful, never show annoyance nor impatience and that at the worst they would let us go at the end of their shift.

I remember in the late 70s crossing from Switzerland into Germany and back into Switzerland in about 25 kilometres, and all the guards had SMGs leveled at us. Please Lord, don't let my foot slip off the brake pedal.