This is no victory for anyone other than Bundy and, The Scrapbook hopes, a temporary one at that. There is a term to describe the people who surround him, and it isn�t �militia.� The word is �mob.� And what this mob has practiced is not civil disobedience but armed provocation of a democratic government which has afforded Cliven Bundy every right and privilege as a citizen.
I think level-headed conservatives should speak out on this. The armed stand-off plays well to the most extreme hot-heads, but it doesn't play well with mainstream America. They don't want anarchy. Threatening to kill people when we don't agree with a legal decision is not going to promote support for the 2nd Amendment.
Level headed conservatives ARE speaking out on this.
In most cases, fascism is the cause of anarchy. I frankly don't see much anarchy, but I've seen a huge amount of fascism out of the current administration.
The fact of the Bundy case you keep overlooking is that the only ones that threatened to kill people were federal agents.
As far as your concern over the 2nd Amendment goes, at what point were the supporters in violation of it?
Where is your support for the 1st Amendment that everyone in the free world agrees WAS violated by the government?
I think level-headed conservatives should speak out on this. The armed stand-off plays well to the most extreme hot-heads, but it doesn't play well with mainstream America. They don't want anarchy. Threatening to kill people when we don't agree with a legal decision is not going to promote support for the 2nd Amendment.
If the feds hadn't descended on him with 200 armed agents, this never would have hit the news cycle.
Due to that ridiculous start, I feel the civilian response was totally appropriate and actually fairly well done. It ended with no women shot in the head by the fed snipers, no compounds were burned down with everybody inside, and no feds were fired at by "psycho" militiamen. Everybody has stood down and it can proceed with calmer heads and almost assuredly quality legal representation. It was a situation which never should have been escalated by the feds, and personally I'd love to see an investigation into this with Congress reviewing emails and communications into and out of BLM in regards to what led to this reaction. Somebody told them to make an example of him, imho.
Maybe next time the local sheriff or state governor will have enough balls to step in and put a halt to something like this before hundreds of armed people are facing off against each other.
“The Savage 99 Pocket Reference”. All models and variations of 1895’s, 1899’s and 99’s covered. Also dates, checkering, engraving.. Find at www.savagelevers.com
This is no victory for anyone other than Bundy and, The Scrapbook hopes, a temporary one at that. There is a term to describe the people who surround him, and it isn�t �militia.� The word is �mob.� And what this mob has practiced is not civil disobedience but armed provocation of a democratic government which has afforded Cliven Bundy every right and privilege as a citizen.
I think level-headed conservatives should speak out on this. The armed stand-off plays well to the most extreme hot-heads, but it doesn't play well with mainstream America. They don't want anarchy. Threatening to kill people when we don't agree with a legal decision is not going to promote support for the 2nd Amendment.
Level headed conservatives ARE speaking out on this.
Not on this site
In most cases, fascism is the cause of anarchy. I frankly don't see much anarchy, but I've seen a huge amount of fascism out of the current administration.
Were theres people thumbing their noses at the very laws that make up our county, then I'd say your supporting anarchy.
The fact of the Bundy case you keep overlooking is that the only ones that threatened to kill people were.
Horse chit! Mob members said openly and repeatedly that they were fully ready to fire on the agents and kill for the cause from the very begging. There were no saints there on either side.federal agents.
As far as your concern over the 2nd Amendment goes, at what point were the supporters in violation of it?
Where is your support for the 1st Amendment that everyone in the free world agrees WAS violated by the government?
Big mistake by the officers!
Last edited by 4100fps; 04/23/14.
I wanted to take a scalp, but the kill was not mine.
This is no victory for anyone other than Bundy and, The Scrapbook hopes, a temporary one at that. There is a term to describe the people who surround him, and it isn�t �militia.� The word is �mob.� And what this mob has practiced is not civil disobedience but armed provocation of a democratic government which has afforded Cliven Bundy every right and privilege as a citizen.
I think level-headed conservatives should speak out on this. The armed stand-off plays well to the most extreme hot-heads, but it doesn't play well with mainstream America. They don't want anarchy. Threatening to kill people when we don't agree with a legal decision is not going to promote support for the 2nd Amendment.
Level headed conservatives ARE speaking out on this.
Not on this site
In most cases, fascism is the cause of anarchy. I frankly don't see much anarchy, but I've seen a huge amount of fascism out of the current administration.
Were theres people thumbing their noses at the very laws that make up our county, then I'd say your supporting anarchy.
The fact of the Bundy case you keep overlooking is that the only ones that threatened to kill people were.
Horse chit! Mob members said openly and repeatedly that they were fully ready to fire on the agents and kill for the cause from the very begging. There were no saints there on either side.federal agents.
As far as your concern over the 2nd Amendment goes, at what point were the supporters in violation of it?
Where is your support for the 1st Amendment that everyone in the free world agrees WAS violated by the government?
Big mistake by the officers!
And now a word from our sponsor:
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Were theres people thumbing their noses at the very laws that make up our county, then I'd say your supporting anarchy.
Well, I guess the current makeup of our top elected and appointed government leaders are both, then, right? Don't even get the folks here started about how many laws they have broken. Or WHO broke them.
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Horse chit! Mob members said openly and repeatedly that they were fully ready to fire on the agents and kill for the cause from the very begging.
Well, by all means please show us all where anyone said that. Please do. We are all waiting.... Tick Tock.
The Bundy camp always said to keep things peaceful. They are on record for saying as much.
you can always spot the liberal/progressives. They are 100% for YOU obeying the law, but consistently say nothing at all about the rampant, and massive lying that our Government does on a daily basis, and the mockery the current administration has made out of the 'rule of law'.
...If the feds hadn't descended on him with 200 armed agents, this never would have hit the news cycle...
...The fact of the Bundy case you keep overlooking is that the only ones that threatened to kill people were federal agents...
Simply untrue. Bundy has been threatening violence for years.
From 2012 The suit was filed after the Bureau of Land Management canceled plans to round up and remove the cattle last month because of safety concerns. Those concerns related to Bundy vowing to protect his property rights, The Associated Press reported.
Over the years, the Department of Justice has more than once canceled BLM plans to round up the trespass cattle after blatant threats of violence from Bundy and his supporters
I can list more quotes of Bundy and his wife saying things to the effect that "we have guns and will do whatever it takes to stop the roundup" and calling for a Range War. If the BLM had announced a month ago that "we have guns and are looking for a Range War" how would you react?
So Bundy and supporters have been making it clear for years that they would be willing to kill law enforcement.
I challenge anyone to show me another example where the BLM has showed up so heavily armed. I would think that even the most biased person would recognize it was because a "Range War" was being called for by Bundy. When you threaten the lives of law enforcement doing their sworn duty, it would be delusional to expect them to not be able to fully defend themselves.
you can always spot the liberal/progressives. They are 100% for YOU obeying the law, but consistently say nothing at all about the rampant, and massive lying that our Government does on a daily basis, and the mockery the current administration has made out of the 'rule of law'.
President Obama on Friday signed into law a bill authored by Texas Republican Sen. Ted Cruz that would bar an Iranian diplomat from entering the United States, but immediately issued a statement saying he won't enforce it.
He said he would do what it takes to hold onto what he has.
Can't blame him there.
I still fail to see where he said he'd kill anyone at all. He did in fact hold on to most of what he had, and the most powerful weapon he used was public support there on the scene.
So a man says what he said about hanging on to what he has, and the government response is to launch a comedic government agent assault squad that has no barriers on what laws THEY broke?
The BLM response was uncalled for and was exactly the reason that supporters rushed to his defense.
Nice tactics. DotGov played it cool with that, didn't they?
I can list more quotes of Bundy and his wife saying things to the effect that "we have guns and will do whatever it takes to stop the roundup" and calling for a Range War. If the BLM had announced a month ago that "we have guns and are looking for a Range War" how would you react?
So Bundy and supporters have been making it clear for years that they would be willing to kill law enforcement.
I challenge anyone to show me another example where the BLM has showed up so heavily armed. I would think that even the most biased person would recognize it was because a "Range War" was being called for by Bundy. When you threaten the lives of law enforcement doing their sworn duty, it would be delusional to expect them to not be able to fully defend themselves.
That is a bald-faced lie. And you know it.
Bundy nor anyone that supported them never said word one about killing law enforcement personnel.
Perhaps you can show me where someone has stood up to BLM to this magnitude before?
Now, for the serious questions...
Just who ARE you, and what dog do YOU have in this hunt?
Dollars to donuts says you draw a government check.
Next question is: How would you even come CLOSE to understanding what kind of issues BLM and a rancher in Nevada are having? Based on where you say you live, it must be pretty much off the radar to anyone else living up there.
Maybe you can write them and call them commies. ......... [/quote]
"For the sake of argument, the Scrapbook is willing to concede that it is possible that Cliven Bundy, the Nevada rancher, ought to be allowed to graze his cattle on federal land in Nye county."
Now that's some kind of inside the beltway investigative journalism.....the Bundy property and the BLM lands in question are in Clark county......not Nye county. Everything printed after that is white noise.
Your link leaves more unsaid than said and it's a strictly anti-Fox organization. Peddle your BS somewhere else.
This. Especially from a well-established democrat leftie.
A good principle to guide me through life: “This is all I have come to expect, standard lackluster performance. Trust nothing, believe no one and realize it will only get worse…”
I challenge anyone to show me another example where the BLM has showed up so heavily armed. I would think that even the most biased person would recognize it was because a "Range War" was being called for by Bundy. When you threaten the lives of law enforcement doing their sworn duty, it would be delusional to expect them to not be able to fully defend themselves.
If a person threatens the life of a federal officer attempting to do his duty, that's a crime and they can be arrested for it.
If the person wasn't arrested... maybe the threat wasn't quite all it is made out to be by your screaming lib web sites?
I see he said this in 2012:
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The decision came after Bundy wrote a threatening letter to BLM contractor Cattoor Livestock Roundup Inc., which was charged with removing his cattle.
"There is a volatile situation currently taking place," Bundy wrote. "Cliven Bundy will do whatever it takes to protect his property and rights and liberty and freedoms of those of, We the People, of Clark County Nevada."
Wow. He said he'll do all it takes. Surprised they just didn't send a drone to take him out after that type of threatening talk. Whew.
“The Savage 99 Pocket Reference”. All models and variations of 1895’s, 1899’s and 99’s covered. Also dates, checkering, engraving.. Find at www.savagelevers.com
You come up with that video all on your own? Impressive! I see what you did there.
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At least some of Bundy�s supporters made statements to the press suggesting that they fully intended to use their weapons to further such a disorder. One militia member, for example, said that he was at the ranch to provide �armed response,� adding that �[w]e need guns to protect ourselves from the tyrannical government.� Similarly, a message purporting to be from one militia organization that was published on several right-wing websites announced that �[w]e have made the decision to mobilize to Nevada� and concluded with a fairly explicit statement suggesting that the purpose of this mobilization was to spark a deadly conflict: �All men are mortal, most pass simply because it is their time, a few however are blessed with the opportunity to chose their time in performance of duty.�
Las Vegas Sun: Bundy Said He Would "Do Whatever It Takes" To Protect His Cattle. In 2013, Bundy told the Las Vegas Sun he would "do whatever it takes" to prevent the government from seizing his cattle:
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[T]he rancher insists his cattle aren't going anywhere. He acknowledges that he keeps firearms at his ranch and has vowed to "do whatever it takes" to defend his animals from seizure.
"I've got to protect my property," Bundy said as Arden steered several cattle inside an elongated pen. "If people come to monkey with what's mine, I'll call the county sheriff. If that don't work, I'll gather my friends and kids and we'll try to stop it. I abide by all state laws. But I abide by almost zero federal laws."Bundy's wife Carol told the Sun that she owns a shotgun and is prepared to use it:
Carol Bundy said her husband is not a violent man, just a person who will protect what he owns. For that matter, so is she.
"I've got a shotgun," she said. "It's loaded and I know how to use it. We're ready to do what we have to do, but we'd rather win this in the court of public opinion." [Las Vegas Sun, 9/23/13]
This is from a Right wing political group:
Quote
The U.S. Bureau of Land Management announced today that it was ending its effort to seize Cliven Bundy�s herd of cattle that has been illegally grazing on federal land. The reason the BLM suspended the cattle round up was to protect the safety of federal employees and members of the general public. Bundy and a smattering of his right-wing supporters have threatened to wage a range war if the government continues with its effort to enforce the law. Let that sink in for a minute. The government is halting their efforts to enforce the law because of the threats being made by Bundy supporters.
One positive thing came out of this for sure. Folks are asking why the BLM and rangers were armed with AR-15s and why so many showed up looking like our troops in Afghanistan? It was the feds that threatened to shoot broadcasting it with a bullhorn!
The Karma bus always has an empty seat when it comes around.- High Brass
There's battle lines being drawn Nobody's right if everybody's wrong
Funny thing about so called official government paper work . It can say just about anything and when you try and pin it down to just one thing like a truth , it , like the government , has a way of flopping like a fish right out of your hands . Case in point . My grandfathers Birth certificate and certificate of live birth says under race �colored � Anyone here ever heard of a race �colored � ? He wasn�t African American either but Native American or to be more oliticaly correct to those who claimed they were born here so they there for are native , then I will say American Indian .
But lets say everything in those links are true and Bundy held no rights tell after ohhhh lets say 2003 . Who really gives a rats ass ? I sure don�t . the reason I don�t is because if you want to hold the burden of proof to actual document able material then that same burden should be held regardless of who your speaking about . So why are people not so up in arms about obama ? I mean seriously , none of his records are even close to being consistent . doesn�t mater if its on his mom or fathers side
But as has been said , time and time again , this isn�t about turtles , cows or grazing rights , its about a government that�s completely out of control in every shape in form . Some want to make this about Bundy , frankly again , I don�t give a dam about Bundy past that he stood up against the government . Ill tell you something else . If your really concerned about bundy , why don�t we start asking the news media why they are not reporting the other side of obama . Why are they not asking why it is that we not only have government controlled swat teams invading our lands and homes , but we have managed to still be mixed up in Afghanistan , but Syria , Libya, the Sudan and now he wants to go toe to with Putin and Russia ?????? Why are they not talking about that seriously ?? Mmm Instead some here want to dig up one side of a persons family tree and claim it as proof positive . Well lets use obamas fathers side to prove the man isn�t a US citizen , never was and boot the ass and his whole cabinet out of office.
You want to know the sad part . I don�t personally care if obama is aa natural born citizen or not . At east no more then I care about Bundy�s family tree or that the US middle classes is now no longer the most prosperous . Frankly I never new we had a middle class . As its all poor or poorer . That being said , I don�t care about the so called 1% BS either. You want money , get off you lazy ass and make something for yourself vs. living on food stamps an welfare for generation after generation
So if I'm in my house and the State Trooper has a search warrant and both my wife and I say "we have guns and will do anything it takes to stop you from coming through that door" anyone but a fool knows that's a deadly threat.
rockinbbar, I've spent a lot of time in Nevada. I worked on the family farm for 25 years give or take. My last dealings with the Feds I filed a formal complaint for the profound arrogance showed by U.S. Customs. I don't blindly take sides based on preconceived notions of if the government is good or bad. Some times it is good, sometime it is bad. Just like the public.
Even without any of that perspective I have the sense to know that an armed resistance to a Court Order isn't going to stand just because some hotheads decide they can defy the law.
I can't think of a single person that's called me liar face to face since adulthood. It's easy on the internet, isn't it?
President Obama on Friday signed into law a bill authored by Texas Republican Sen. Ted Cruz that would bar an Iranian diplomat from entering the United States, but immediately issued a statement saying he won't enforce it.
Meanwhile, the POTUS breaks the law on a regular basis and nothing is done about it.
Yep. They always said they would do what it takes to hold what they have. Nobody ever said they didn't.
You quote unknown people saying unknown things in you last quotation. You do understand that when you report things, they have to have the source so they can be verified? Otherwise they are nothing but hearsay.
If so many people threatened to kill so many agents, how come they were not charged with a criminal offense and arrested long ago as they went to the grocery store, and were alone?
In fact, show us all where Bundy or any of his supporters were ever charged with criminal activity of any sort?
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