Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Muzzleloaders Newbie question

I drew for a NM muzzle deer hunt for next year and don't have much of a clue where to start in choosing a muzzleloader. I want a rifle that would comply with Colorado's muzzle rules (iron sights, no sabots) so I want a rate of twist and barrel length that will work with traditional bullets. Any basic rules of thumb to start with would be helpful. I also need a setup that will work with moderate loads because of a history of retina tears that make heavy recoil a bad idea. I'm willing to accept the range limitations that result from conical bullets and a moderate charge.

Thanks in advance for any guidance.

cva accura v2, 250-300gr thor bullet with 100gr bh209. It will do it all and then some.

If I was starting from scratch, I'd get a break-action in-line. Simple, lighter and shorter/better handling than any of the rifles with an "Action" that just takes up space.

Go with a .50 caliber rifle, it's become the standard and there's a much better selection of bullets in .50 than other calibers. .50 is also the minimum for elk in CO.

They are just about all 28 twist these days, which is good for conicals. BH209 is great stuff too. I use 80 grains behind a 350 grain bullet in mine and it's plenty for elk and not too much recoil.

Traditional bullets? How about a traditional (not Traditions) rifle to go with it? Since you're limited to iron sights, they're not as big of handicap as you might think. A .54 T/C New Englander or Renegade with a patched round ball or Maxi Ball over 80-90 grains real black powder, Alliant Black MZ or Pyrodex would do the job nicely.

Most of the newer rifles come D&T for scope mounts. You can mount one for NM and then take it of for CO.

Ditto what Smokepole said. Get a break open action,50 cal.

Not sure about the legality where you'll be hunting, but the Hornady FPB comes in 50 cal 350 and 300 grainers. Shoot well in 1-48" twist if you should decide to go "old school". My old T/C groups them better with 777 than with Goex FF, but either is good enough. Use CCI #11M caps with the 777 and pick that nipple!

Which ever way you go, get started early and get plenty of practice loading and firing so you can work out the kinks before you go hunting. Make sure your setup allows you to fire at least 2 or 3 shots without having to wipe out the barrel. Most shooters use a special rod at the range, but in the field you'll be using the ramrod on the gun, so practice loading with it as well.

If NM permits, get a rifle that will accept a receiver sight or tang sight. Much more accurate than open sights.

NM allows scopes. Only colorado needs open sights/conicals/loose powder.

Seeing how hes hunting CO as well,open sights and the ability to shoot conicals are the first 2 most important things, along with how the rifle fits your build.

bigblock455 has it for u

Got to agree with him on this one, CVA = good, priced right, and should work for you in .50 cal.

Before you jump right into it. Start with some Pyrodex or 777 and save your self some money before you go to theBH209. Around here 209 is $36 for 10 oz. and the other is $22-$23 per pound.

Get use to loading and shooting,cleaning etc, before going to the expensive stuff. Same with the bullets. Some rifles it is harder to load the Thor bullets.

For the 1st 20-30+ rounds, at paper,I would get the cheapest bullets you can find.

Then after you have it mastered, figure out what you want to hunt with and start developing the loads for that.

I hear what you're saying SS, but I'm not sure I agree 100%.

Yes, it's expensive but if he plans to hunt this fall and his main objective is to find a good hunting load then the cost of his powder and bullets will be a small fraction of the cost of the hunt.

If he's gonna do a lot of shooting at the range, then it's a different equation. But from the sounds of it with the recoil issue, I'm guessing he won't be spending a ton of time shooting.

Personally, I'd start with the same bullets and powder I wanted to hunt with, and make sure I found a load that shot well in my particular rifle and (for the OP) that I could handle the recoil of.

Once that was done, if I wanted to practice at the range I'd go for some cheaper components.

in the long run, buying cleaning patches, using water to clean, rust aids, adds more to the cost for pyrodex or t7. BH209 you just buy a $5 bore brush/breech brush set, a can of birchwood casey 2 in 1 bore scrubber which has cleaner and rust protection in it, and thats it. Caring for a muzzleloader that shoots bp-t7-pyrodex involves more care.

I'm going to add this ...

Once somebody selects a ML there's enough knowledge here regarding loads that shoot well, in that model ML, that experimenting to find a good load is greatly reduced or may not be needed.

When I bought my TC Omega I researched loads, settled on one, and shot great from the git go. After sighting it in it was ready to hunt.

That didn't stop me from experimenting though.

cleaning patches= one old tee shirt.
Water= free.
Got to use oil or rust preventative after cleaning no matter what powder.

bh209 can sit on the shelf for years, t7 and pyrodex loose their power over a year, not to mention they can clump up. If you're shooting a modern inline of today, bh209 is taking over as the work horse. Not to mention, swabbing between shots is a thing of the past.

Yes, and you can also use it to wash windows, and wash your car with.

Here we go another slap match between BH209 and the regular black powders.

I've tried quite a few powders so far and nothing I've used came close to BH209 in all areas. But hey, as long as I'm shooting 3 shot MOA at 100 yards in both my guns and with the ease of cleaning I'd pay 50 bucks all day long and not risk that one shot that counts. I have more invested with my tag, gas, to losing overtime, and all the other crap that comes with hunting to skimp on a few bucks when it counts.

Just my 2 cents for what it's worth.....:P

exactly, spent $500-900 on a rifle and then use a cheap bullet or powder. Doesnt make sense. Just like the guy that spends $65,000 on a new truck and whiles around a $60 oil change.

Please reread my post. I advised to use cheaper components until the guy had a feel for what he was doing. No one said a damn word about gas, cost of tags, losing overtime, shots that counts and on and on and on.

Every time someone suggest that there might be other avenues than 209,you guys act like someone is pulling on superman's cape

A fellow can easily burn up a pound of powder in the initial stages of leaning ML. Also, it gives guy a chance to figure out all the ins and outs of cleaning, what happens when you don't etc.I typically burn a pound of black powder in practice every year before ML season and use cheap maxi-balls I cast myself doing so.

Not everyone is so rich that they have more money than they know what to do with and some are just too lazy to run a patch down the barrel between shots at the range.

With my rifle I can shoot a 2nd shot when needed hunting with out a swab. I have yet to find that I that need three shots to kill something. If someone does, they need to take up center fire hunting with maybe a semi auto rifle

And I don't drive a $65,000 truck. I change oil myself and my truck is a 1998.

For Christ sakes, you guys ways are not the only way.