Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Air Guns Shooting feral krats with a pellet gun....

It took me a while, but I read through the article. I noticed it was put out by the Wildlife Damage Management [I believe through the college] and the resources cited were between 7 and 14 years old. I'm not saying it isn't relevant today, but there does appear to be more progress made since this was published.

In the process of searching for a particular online site that would offer specific stats regarding trap-neuter-return vs trap/kill methods, I came across another site of interest. Alley Cat Allies website states it is a criminal offense in 50 states to intentionally kill a cat...whether tame, feral, owner, or non owner.

The state of Pennsylvania was mentioned several times so sounds like Alley Cat Allies is alive and well there and quite active. ACA stated PETA has joined forces with the trap/kill group because they believe a feral cat has basically been ruined and left to die [because of people] and should just be euthanized [to spare it from suffering]. This is totally contrary to studies that show ferals can and often do live as long as domesticated cats.

Please take a look at this website [alleycatallies.org] and if for nothing else, to make sure you not committing a criminal offense. NY may not be included but you might want to check it out.

I've seen all of the sites on feral cats during my research. I think that the trap neuter and release is a good idea in small towns and cities where there is an abundance of food sources created by humans as in refuse and garbage which attract another food source for the cats like rodents. In these situations the cats do perform a necessary function of keeping the rodent population down and by neutering them it keeps their population controlled.

Having said that, in a semi rural/ suburban neighborhood where the only food source is a little old lady that supplies food for these cats and does not provide any medical care, the feral cat population gets out of control to the point where cats out number neighbors and everyone's yard becomes a stinky litter box. Without dumpsters of garbage found in the small towns/cities, trap, neuter and release does not address the health and safety issues that these feral colonies create in the neighborhood.

In these more rural communities there aren't laws on the books to control the feeding of these colonies or any type of community funded relocation program to remove these un-neutered, un-vaccinated feral colonies.

So I think you can understand the frustration many must feel having their property and their neighborhood overrun by colonies of feral cats only because perhaps an animal lover refuses to stop providing food for these colonies.

Local shelters won't take feral cats and if they do many will destroy them..for a donation. That money can add up. Many here feel it's cheaper to do it themselves. They aren't anymore serial killer material than the man or woman at the shelter operating the gas chamber.

Most of the laws on the books do a great deal toward protecting these feral colonies and do very little protecting the rights of homeowners.

That's why I'm very thankful to the local, coyotes, hawks and black bears. I am much indebted to them.

Dan

They're getting better fuel mileage than we are

ashphaultangel...interesting article on the feral cat issue. My only experience with feral cats were several that we had at a ship yard I once worked at, the kittens were tame, but the adults were afraid of people. Nobody shot at them, I don't recall any rats around so maybe the cats were cleaning up on them.

The article mentioned the use of pointed pellets and a 700 fps air gun, seems logical, would there be a difference between a .177 or a .22 pellet caliber? Is it really illegal to shoot cats and dogs in all 50 states? I also read somewhere of a guy who shot his own dog as it was sick and he got into trouble. Does anyone know if you can put your own cat/dog out of its misery over paying a vet?

It is also true about the outside cats getting parasites, diseases, etc. Many of my pet cats that I had allowed outside developed health issues, won't be allowing my future cats outside anymore. No one mentioned the use of poison for control, I was against using poison as it can be ingested by other animals that you don't want to kill.

How nice to wake up to a well written post with no foul language or some knee jerk reaction before you put your thinking cap on. It would be nice to see more posts like this when there is a different viewpoint. ..makes it possible to actually learn something. Thanks Dan.

I'll think on this and get back to you.

HE112,
We had a citizen here who took it upon herself to poison neighborhood dogs. She had been doing it for some time and finally got caught. They hit her with a very large fine and put the article in the local paper. People were shocked as she had worked as a counselor for years and was still seeing some clients out of her home. I can guarantee you her clientele suddenly stopped after that article was published. Poison is an inhumane way to kill a cat or dog. The death process is slow and ugly.

You may have read about the air/pellet guns in the article that Dan posted. Just about every town or city has laws against shooting firearms within the city limits and there are animal anti-cruelty laws in all 50 states according to ASPCA and Alley Cat Allies. The challenge is how each town, city, or state enforces their own laws [or doesn't].

In our town we have Cat Management Coalition who run the trap, neuter, and return program [TNR]. They coordinate with animal control that work for the police department. They also coordinate with our Humane Society and veterinarians who will donate their time for spay and neuter clinics [run by volunteers]. Some small towns may only have a couple individuals who are able to do the TNR program but that's o.k. as long as they have a veterinarian to do the surgeries and markings on the cats. If you are interested in more information than this, please check out the Alley Cat Allies website.

It's true that feral cats have kittens that can be tamed. It's ideal if the kittens are exposed to humans early on and altered at about 2 months. These kittens are adoptable and can be easily placed in homes. I have tamed adult feral cats but it takes a lot of time and patience. I have a friend who runs a cat sanctuary and has around 80-100 cats that are all cared for.

Indoor cats do have longer lives in general and it's recommended to keep them indoors if possible. However, if you make sure they have proper vaccinations they will be protected from diseases that other animals may carry.

How many cats do you have?

I can understand your frustration given the inability thus far to locate resources in your area to deal with the problem. In order for the Trap, Neuter, and Return [TNR] Program to be effective they need to have a person assigned to feed the colony...either a neighbor or someone who will come by once or twice a day. This person is also responsible to report any noticeable medical issues or problems with the cats. Once the colony is to a manageable number and getting the food it needs, the other problems decrease. For winter weather, there are basic shelters that can be built and filled with straw for insulation.

Once the cats are trapped, they are brought in to a veterinarian's office to be altered, marked with a tattoo, and even receive vaccinations in some cases. They are observed in "recovery" for a short period of time, placed back in their traps, and returned to the colony [unless that location is no longer safe]. These colonies have learned how to survive together so for the best possible outcomes they are placed back with the same group. It may take a few days or more to get the entire colony but once this is done, the re-population stops.

I would agree that trying to take a colony of ferals to the local Humane Society is not practical...both from a financial stand point and simply for lack of space at these facilities.

It sounds like you have researched well but have you tried checking with your veterinarian for any resources you may not be aware of? Has anyone written the editor of your local newspaper regarding this problem? There are many people out there who want to help and have a passion for this , but need to know where to start.

If I had the time and money, I would round up a couple "crazies" that have worked with me before and we would be on a plane to NY to help you and your neighborhood out. I'm sure Alley Cat Allies would assist as well.

I just like my idea better

I killed all my stuff on traplines as a kid with CB Caps, coyote, bobcat, coons. I have no problem my 22 cal Beeman R1 . the live trap is the way to go though around homes, pop em in the trap..........

It all sounds good on paper. The problem is that there are too many cats in many neighborhoods. Period. There were up to 15 at one point in ours.

In my neighborhood,there was so much feline fecal matter on folks lawns that they wouldn't even let their grandchildren play there when they visited. Folks were embarrassed when company was on their front stoop, smelling cat urine and feces. Feral cats were on our back porch hissing at me when I used it.

These cats don't need to be released back to the neighborhood after being neutered and vaccinated. They need to be removed and released elsewhere...or destroyed. If the food source (cat lady)
would stop providing meals, many of these cats would not be as healthy, not produce as many kittens, and would move along to find food elsewhere.

There aren't any dumpsters from apartments or restaurants to attract cats or rodents. Just a lonely old woman who is the only food source and refuses to stop feeding this colony. Raccoons and other wild animals that may carry rabies eat from the same dish as these un-vaccinated feral cats. I know our neighborhood isn't the only one that has had this problem.

These cats aren't cuddly little pets but as wild as the raccoon's that share the food dish. If they were stray pets at one time they are now no longer socialized.

Until local governments decide to produce funds and personnel for a trapping and neutering program, returning or removing depending on the situation or passing legislation to protect home and land owners from individuals that feed feral cats in residential neighborhoods, then what is one to do. Spend thousands of dollars suing an elderly neighbor? Pay hundreds if not over a thousand dollars to neuter and vaccinate a colony of nasty, ill tempered cats?

In my neighborhood, we covered any access to shelter this fall. Any access under a shed or building that these cats could find was covered. Debris from property edges was removed. We had a wonderfully frigid winter this year. We also, as I have previously mentioned, some natural predators visit our neighborhood due to the number of cats and kittens running around. They became a food source. Between that and a teenager or two that likes to speed down the road in their hopped up little rice burners, there's only a couple of cat's left in the colony since last summer. Thank God.

I'd like to see legislation to protect people from feral cats, not the other way around.

I know I won't change your mind Sherri..and you won't change mine on this one either. There is a place for trap, neuter and release in many situations. There are also situations where euthanasia should be an option also. Laws that consider humans when written instead of merely protecting feral cats is a start. There is a balance that can be achieved but unfortunately the feral cat rights have taken precedent over human's over the last few years.


Dan

I agree wholeheartedly Dan. Like I've said before, I actually like cats, but IMHO the owners need to find a way to keep them contained within their property boundaries. Once they get into MY yard, all bets are off. The ferals around here are the biggest problem BUT some of my neighbors let their cats out at night & let them back in come morning...the howling, yowling & fights has kept me awake more than once. My back yard is fairly cat proof, because I have 6' chain link, a lab & two JRT's but the front yard smells like cat...

Dan,

You have provided me a good understanding for the New York version of the problem...meaning, it's quite worse there than it is in our area. It prompted me to send a couple of emails out your way to get even a better understanding of what Orange County is facing.

I'm beginning to believe I have a magnet on my forehead for vulnerable populations. The past 13 years I have served the mentally ill adult and elderly populations, homeless population, long term care, and most recently both residential and crisis settings for the mentally ill. People must come first. I'm not a PETA person.

Also, I don't believe we have any serial killers lurking in the campfire shadows. My point was there is a humane way to deal with animals and an inhumane way, and I personally want to have a higher standard for animal care than a sociopath who ENJOYS seeing the suffering/torture and ENJOYS bragging about it later.

I will let you know if I learn anything that could be of help out there. God bless!

My dealings with feral cats and dogs are alot different from the suburbinites or city folk. I live miles off of pavement on a dead end road and another 1/2 mile from the property line. Most of my problems come from people taking their unwanted pets to live in the country, which is short for these pos people kick them out of the car to starve on their own. You can always tell when a town passes an ordinance against pit bulls because a few weeks later they will be chasing my stock or pets. Cats that are not mine or the neighbors don't get a pass. I use a 17 Rem or a 7mag whatever is closest

There ya go my kind of guy. How high do they jump when you smack them with a 7 mag

blanket,

We have a school with a large parking lot 1/4 mile away. My cat was one of those starving strays dropped off. A perfect dumping ground.

She charged at me from under my deck when I was taking the trash out and quickly rubbed up against my leg. When I leaned down to lightly stroke her side she immediately started to lick me.

Seamus is a beautiful Maine Coon/ Russian Blue mix that weighed only 5 lbs when she found us. Bad upper respiratory infection, malnourished, infested with ticks and pregnant.

We fed her, took her to the vet..kittens the works. She's 12 lbs now and a great companion for the family.

I have a friend that lives on a non operational farm off the road and while he doesn't have issues with pit bulls or dogs he gets plenty of cats dropped off. He has to thin the population out every few years when the population gets out of hand.


Dan

These are not feral cats Gemby. They are someone's pet, dumped off to starve. We have adopted several strays. My former husband and I were walking one evening by a cemetery out of town. I heard a meow so we stopped and a tiny white kitty came out to me with a pink nose/ears and one blue eye. I picked it up and it latched onto me. I looked in the woodpile where it came from and found it's brother. They were so hungry they tried to nurse off my husband's t-shirt [too young to be weaned]. I took them home and we told ourselves we couldn't keep them because we already had provided a home for 7. I found a home for them in a 2 weeks, came home and told my husband. He said, "it's too late" because he couldn't part with them. This is just one of many "rescue" stories.

Mark never really was a cat guy before we met. His son told on him and said Mark had shot cats in the past [then all hell broke loose.....just kidding]. But now he is so attached to Blue, Cameo, and Kiwi. Once Mark learned the cats had personalities, were entertaining, clean, independent, low maintenance, and affectionate, it changed his perspective. He supports me in animal rescue efforts and says he couldn't shoot them anymore.

I am looking forward to grandkids coming to visit from Florida so they can learn what it means to be kind to animals and how dogs, cats have so much love to give, but they need us to care for them. We will all fish together and have a fish fry. Mark will teach them to hunt and all about conservation. Hopefully, they will learn both sportsmanship and kindness.

They are not feral to start with but that is how it starts. About a month ago a farmer about 30 miles from me had $15,000 worth of meat goats killed in 2 nights by 2 dogs. We keep 2 spayed cats at the house that can be found on the front porch or out around the hay about anytime. Had another that was torn up bad enough that it died by a big tomcat that showed up. Guess it is a matter of perspective where you live because any so called rescue in my part of the country would be a waste of time due to the amount of timber and CRP ground around. By the way Gemby the 7mm is loaded with 120gr Nosler BT so everything happens real fast, coyotes don't like it either

there feral cats then. what do you think they will become in a month or so maybe as little as a few weeks. You come dump your pet off at my farm and see what happens.

I use my Marauder to rid them as do make to much of a mess. Use to use my 223 with 50gr sierra blitz till i thought why waste the good ammo on them. the 25 cal marauder will lay there head wide open. when i shoot a cat with the airgun they dont do to much but maybe kick some. when i used the 223 they acted like they were a spring wound tight

We have cats now ( all indoor pets).
Back in the day , on the farm, everyone had cats and dogs outside. By necessity. Barn cats kept the vermin at bay.

Dogs were farm guards and hunters.
But we also had a problem with dogs running deer down so we had a pact. If one of my critters ends up at your place? It's fair game.
And the same goes for yours, here.

We shot cats and dogs alike,

I once had to trap ( in the city ) to rid my place of skunks.
As many as 5 a week in a live trap. I would just bag the whole trap and tie it off to the tail pipe of my truck. Go have a cup of coffee, and come bag and garbage bag the Lepew.

I also got a couple krats.. and even a HUGE female coon that was all gray! I shot her in the middle of the night because she was making such a fuss and tearing up the trap.
I wasn't sure WHAT it was until I saw it in the daylight.

I've never seen one before or since. Almost pure gray and HUGE !
20 houses down from the Euclid Ohio City Hall!