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My first post. I�m looking at a Model 70 in 30-06. Got the serial number and it looks like the action was made in 1957. The bore looks good (to my untrained eye) and from what I can tell the lands seem somewhat sharp, etc. What do I make of the wear marks on the bolt, extractor (see closeup) - seem normal? I think I�ve seen other actions that look worn sort of like this? The stock has weird dark checkering (like it�s been messed with), refinished looking and an after market butt pad but I�m thinking the wood could still be original to the gun? Somebody gutted the wood around the barrel - to make it free floating I guess frown

The shop guy says the scope is a good one (Leupold) although I don�t really care about it much. I want to go back to original iron sights and maybe even add a peep at some point.

I thought I could buy it, clean it and take it to the range just the way it is to see how it shoots with the scope off the bench - just for a test. Then remove the scope and replace the iron sights (Lyman seems to still sell iron sights that are close to original for this year gun�). Strip the stock, try to determine how bad the checkering is and then maybe do a simple oil finish. Then find an original steel butt plate at some point, or just put a decent simple Pachmayr, etc. on. I don�t think the length (stock) has been messed with. Maybe even find another stock at some point? A project gun.

Any opinions? smile
http://birdpublishing.com/img/another_compare.jpg

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Save your money and buy one that hasn't been so Bubbasmithed.

Last edited by gunswizard; 04/30/14.
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Originally Posted by gunswizard
Save your money and buy one that hasn't been so Bubbasmithed.

+1....keep lookin, there's usually a much nicer one right around the corner.


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I'm not a pre-64 expert, but I get gut feelings.
The stock is trashed. It has been cut to accommodate a recoil pad so a butt plate will leave it short. The channel makes it unrecoverable as well.
The scope rings/mounts are Weaver which lessens (in my mind) scope mounting security. The scope is fine (if clear and adjustable). The lifetime warranty helps.
Finally, you didn't mention cost and utilization intentions.
If you want a hunter and the price is $400 or less, buy it.
If you're hoping to buy it, restore it to original condition, forget it. A pre-64 stock in nice shape is virtually unavailable.

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The price is $750. There are many around the corner that are better but they won't be $750. They might come down a little, I go back in today to take another look.

The ones I've seen online and at places like Cabelas seem to have actions/barrels which are no better, only with iron sights and much nicer stocks. Of course maybe Bubba has worked on this action too, I don't know enough to tell. No one has mentioned the wear on the bolt, etc. is that normal in a 1957 30-06? Every decent 30-06 I've seen seems to be at least $1,500 (other calibers higher). If this is a good action, is a decent stock worth another $750? Maybe I could use a fiberglass (McMillan classic 70, etc.) and have a decent shooter?

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It sounds like you have already made up your mind to buy this rifle, but I agree that there are better shooters out there for the $750 that you would pay for this one.

Be patient. You will find one.

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My friend, The photos on the gun in your first post looks like a fair to nice 'shooter grade' made in April of 1957.
Its all about what you want , do you want to be a collector of 95% pre 64 model 70's, do you want to collect NIB unfired since they left the factory or do you want a nice classic gun to fold a whitetail up every time you drop the hammer on the best factory trigger made?
Now it all comes to money, yep the all mighty dollar. You have to start here as the action,floor plate, trigger and mag box ,spring and follower is worth a smooth $600.00 to a guy that is going to build on it. OK your stock was more than likely cut for recoil pad, no biggie these old guys bought these guns to hunt and did not give a dog dam as to collectable value 40 years down the road .nice gun but its all about price. I have 8 30-06 and 270's I an going to shine up a bit to sell before next deer season. I would be happy to hunt with any of them , they will be priced very fair and all will get the job done! Some are just like they left the factory except they have been hunted,some have had pads added and one has been professionally refinished but each and every one shoot good and have CLASS! very best on a nice shooter

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Originally Posted by gunswizard
Save your money and buy one that hasn't been so Bubbasmithed.


This.

What's your hurry? Wait for a clean one.

Mine is a .30-06 Featherweight I bought at LGS for $700 because the recoil pad had been added--otherwise near mint, pristine bore.

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"There's more to optics than meets the eye."--anon

"...most of us would be better off losing half a pound around the waist than half a pound on our rifle."--dhg

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I haven�t made up my mind, but I�ll take another look today and probably pass because of everyone�s feedback - which I mucho appreciate smile

Originally my intention was to find a 1950�s Model 70 in .375 H&H. Just a decent original, iron-sighted shooter with age and wear that I could still take to the range and safely shoot. When the pre-64 price realities set in I thought about a new Safari Express. But it seems like black magic trying to locate (or even get details on) one of those, so I bounced back to the 30-06 as a compromise of sorts.

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Originally Posted by winchesterpoor
My friend, The photos on the gun in your first post looks like a fair to nice 'shooter grade' made in April of 1957.
Its all about what you want , do you want to be a collector of 95% pre 64 model 70's, do you want to collect NIB unfired since they left the factory or do you want a nice classic gun to fold a whitetail up every time you drop the hammer on the best factory trigger made?
Now it all comes to money, yep the all mighty dollar. You have to start here as the action,floor plate, trigger and mag box ,spring and follower is worth a smooth $600.00 to a guy that is going to build on it. OK your stock was more than likely cut for recoil pad, no biggie these old guys bought these guns to hunt and did not give a dog dam as to collectable value 40 years down the road .nice gun but its all about price. I have 8 30-06 and 270's I an going to shine up a bit to sell before next deer season. I would be happy to hunt with any of them , they will be priced very fair and all will get the job done! Some are just like they left the factory except they have been hunted,some have had pads added and one has been professionally refinished but each and every one shoot good and have CLASS! very best on a nice shooter

So winchesterpoor - are you saying the price of this gun is not far off for a shooter?

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GUSB, I trade pre 64 mod 70's much as I used to trade case pocket knives. Long story short even with my bad eyes and #3 reading glasses I doubt you will get hurt at 750. I can tell you you will be light years ahead of any mod 700 or 77 guy out there. just my 2 C very best WinPoor

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He's saying a nearly blind man might buy it before you can get back to them. smile


"There's more to optics than meets the eye."--anon

"...most of us would be better off losing half a pound around the waist than half a pound on our rifle."--dhg

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Originally Posted by pal
He's saying a nearly blind man might buy it before you can get back to them. smile


At $750 with the Leupold I'd have likely sprained my wrist gettin' my wallet out...but I've been known to buy stuff other guys didn't..:-)


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winchesterpoor, pal and rembo - you guys are making me feel really good because I went in there before I saw the last three posts and bought the gun! The shop owner and 2 employees were there, as well as two other customers who seemed to be pretty knowledgeable about old Model 70s. They all said it was a really decent shooter for the price, crown and bore looked good, etc. I don't know what I'm looking at but the scope seemed clear, I pointed it out the window across the street. They also had a really nice, almost perfect original Model 70, .270 (around 1950, I think) priced at $1,800 so it was interesting to compare the rifles. So I'm hoping that ugly wood that's maybe not so nice helped me get a really decent gun at a reasonable price. smile

I also think the stock can be improved a little (cosmetic) by stripping it - the checkering almost looks like someone took brown paint and painted the diamonds. But first will be a trip to the range (10+ days) to see how it shoots. I've got the Roger Rule book so I can begin searching for proper iron sights, hood, etc. Any tips for installing the iron sights in the dovetails? I'll try to put up some good closeup shots when I get the gun.

Thanks again for all the advise!

Last edited by Gusb; 04/30/14.
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That's a good buy there GusB. wink


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I agree, good buy, the metal looks good. A variable Leupold is worth 150 at least and with their lifetime warranty if there is anything wrong with it send it to them and they will take care off it.
Enjoy!

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After 51 years of looking and searching I finally found and bought a Winchester Model 52C Sporter, so my gun buying days are over until I move several mod 70's that are surplus to my needs, In spite of that promise to myself I would have scratched up the 750. you paid for your gun just because it was well worth that money being scoped.When you start adding mounts, base and rings, a decent Leupold scope ( I wish I could know how many deer I have nailed with a vxll 3x9 Leupold) you are in the gun at about 600 bucks. Clean the gun up and Im willing to bet it will shoot an inch or better with pet ammo! Ya done good my friend! v best WinPoor

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Certainly not an expert, but it would have to be a very special scope to sway me into purchasing a rifle that I was on the fence about....in fact, I always inquire about the price of a rifle with the scope and mounts removed....optics and mounting systems are definetly a matter of personal taste.


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If anyone is still interested... when I get the gun home I'll put up a few closeup pictures of the action, bolt face, etc. (a few paper groups from the range - if I can hit the paper) and maybe at that point things will look one way or the other. Right now after pulling the bolt and seeing inside the action again I'm feeling overall positive about the deal and I usually lean towards the negative/dark side. smile

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Gusb, If you are unhappy with the gun I will give you 750 for it!
The last thing I need at the moment is a 50's pre 64 30-06! very best WinPoor

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Just because it has a pad doesn't mean the stock has been shortened. I once bought a Pre-64 M-70 .30/06 off of GB that had an ill-fitted recoil pad on it and nobody would bid on it. I asked the seller to send me picture of the top rear of the stock. The "widow's peak" was still visible which means the stock had not been cut. I bought the rifle, complete with a Leupold 4X, for about $800. I then removed the recoil pad and attached a Pre-64 steel butt plate to the stock and it fit perfectly.


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I think this one has been cut, a little anyway and the barrel channel wood has really been cut out. So the stock is something I will play around with a little or try to replace at some point.

Any suggestions on finding the iron sights? Rule seems to say a Lyman No 16B (with the white triangle) and a Winchester No 103c .310 inch high for the front. Should I just buy the new Lyman and try to find a proper Lyman mate for the front? I'm assuming the hood will need to be Ebay, etc., or are there other sources?

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Originally Posted by rembo
Originally Posted by pal
He's saying a nearly blind man might buy it before you can get back to them. smile


At $750 with the Leupold I'd have likely sprained my wrist gettin' my wallet out...but I've been known to buy stuff other guys didn't..:-)


Me too. I think that's a great deal on the rifle pictured. I don't let stocks sway me away from a good deal. Stocks can always be swapped, whether it's for a Mcmillan or original. The rifle looks very honest to me..


Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.

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Originally Posted by Gusb
If anyone is still interested... when I get the gun home I'll put up a few closeup pictures of the action, bolt face, etc. (a few paper groups from the range - if I can hit the paper) and maybe at that point things will look one way or the other. Right now after pulling the bolt and seeing inside the action again I'm feeling overall positive about the deal and I usually lean towards the negative/dark side. smile



I'm always interested in seeing more pics. Thanks.


Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.

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Got the shooter home today. Still looks pretty good overall I think. Got a few little dark marks around the primer area on the bolt face. Not great picts but more coming.
[Linked Image]

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I hate recoil pads but at my age I have accepted them and it's best not to worry about them. Even the white line. That's a good buy.

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Im out of sight blanks right now but plan on ordering a hand full, Were your gun mine I would slide a blank in there and find a bead to fill front sight, the hood is an option,many were removed back when folks hunted instead of making the 5 min walk to their favorite deerstand (like I do now!) . At 60 I find myself doing a lot less Indian hunting (walk,stalk hunt). the sight hood seemed to catch every briar and catclaw vine I had to get thru! very best WinPoor

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Hope your as happy with yours as I am with mine. These guns are made to be shot and hunted with, IMHO. If you want a hunter, you got a GREAT deal.

Now, if you want to re-finish the stock, re-blue the metal, it wont make a tinkers damn but it will be a beautiful shooter you will cherish and be proud of'

You dun good son

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winchester-rich, I might do a blank if I end up with a Lyman peep at some point.
Otherwise I'm thinking a Lyman No. 16B in correct, which I think I can still buy?
The front Winchester No. 103C (.310 inch high) I guess I need to find used on EBay, etc.? Would a new Lyman bead of some type work for the front?

I also want the front hood, seen a few online used but again I'm not sure if they correct.

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I would have to pull out my Mr Rules book and do a little research to give you an educated answer. Im gonna check on my mid 80's mother and shoot a few guns at farm after feeding calves but I will look up an answer. very best

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Originally Posted by Gusb
winchester-rich, I might do a blank if I end up with a Lyman peep at some point.
Otherwise I'm thinking a Lyman No. 16B in correct, which I think I can still buy?
The front Winchester No. 103C (.310 inch high) I guess I need to find used on EBay, etc.? Would a new Lyman bead of some type work for the front?

I also want the front hood, seen a few online used but again I'm not sure if they correct.



Sounds like winpoor is going to be busy so I'll help with some answers:

Rear sight should be a Lyman 16B. These can be found on ebay for $25.00 (approx.).

Front sight is a Winchester number 103C. Any front hood from a pre 64 model 70 will work, except for the 7mm caliber rifles. This used a different part #. 3277 vs. 3278. A word of caution on the front hoods: Beware of the unoriginals out there. Ebay has the correct front sight and sight hood as a set right now. Auction ends in 3 days..


Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.

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Thanks for the info guys. I'm still a little confused (as usual) - can I just buy the new Lyman 16B or are they different in some way? bsa1917 - I can't seem to find that "set" for sale (EBay) but I'm still looking smile

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Stripped the stock for refinishing. Tooth-brushed the checkering and it looks pretty good with that after market dark finish removed.
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]

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Looks good....


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Gus, have you found a good 103 C front sight for that rifle yet? Here is one on ebay buddy:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Factory-Ori..._DefaultDomain_0&hash=item46207b8f57

I know Rule says these are supposed to have a gold bead, but most of mine are silver like this one....

Your stock is looking good too...I also mask off the checkering so it doesn't get damaged or filled in with finish. Good luck with your project and let me know if you end up buying this front sight. If not, I may snag it....


Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.

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Gusb, that is good looking wood you have there! very best on your project, keep us posted, a fellow now retired used to sell a reddish stain that matched the old Winchester look dead nuts! I would try and find a bit. I think I would pillar block bed and seal barrel channel and butt before I put the finish on. again just my 2 C. very best WinPoor

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Larry Taylor now sells John Kay's original Winchester stock oil finish...

LarTay9aol.com 520-403-1080

It's the real deal....cut it with mineral spirits or use it full strength...


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BINGO, Mr Balltownbob, I think I have half or sometimers as I could not for the life nor 100 bucks remember John Kays name !!! very best WinPoor

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What did your use to strip it? I have tried a few thing, but never have been satisfied with the results. I always end up having to do just a touch of sand and it makes me crazy.


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750 won't buy much these days. Even tho it has been cut it sure beats the cheapo plastic crap...I have several and the pad is an improvement. Just don't look at it as a collector piece. Look at it as a nice old usable quality made rifle..

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I inherited a pre war 70, cal. .270. 1939 action, 1940 barrel, IIRC. What's wrong with it? The two previous owners USED it. It has been padded. The rear receiver bridge was drilled with one hole for a scope base. It is not a collector, but a darn fine shooter. The finish is thin, but there is no rust on it. I'm thinking of putting a nice scope on it and giving it to my grandson. He may not use it, but he has no need to sell it.


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Big thanks for this link BSA - I will indeed try to get this front sight!

Thanks for the comments. Sorry I�ve been out of the loop with work, etc. I used basic �Premium� stripper one gets at the local hardware. The hard shiny finish the PO had used just bubbled right up and a small plastic scraper took most of it right off. The checkering was full of a dark brown paint-like material and I used an small old nylon gun brush (think toothbrush) and carefully scrubbed out the cuts. The wood grain seemed to have retained some original stain so I taped the checkering and did a minimal sanding job with 350 paper and small school eraser. I like the existing dings and scrapes - someone went to the trouble of putting that history there so why should I try to remove it? smile

After I rubbed a couple of oil coats I used an oil based pore filler just once. Now have about 9/10 coats of linseed (boiled) applied and at some point will switch to Lin-Speed to finish up. Not perfect but to my eye the stock is developing some character.

I�ve also carefully removed the small spots of bedding material that was used and found little holes drilled (I guess to get the material to stick to the wood). I�m going to make a few measurements and clean these areas bit more and try to bed the action even though I really don�t know what i�m doing. I�ll try to get a few more pictures up. I�m wondering if someone may have recut the checkering outline?
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]

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Very nice job.

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Excellent work good sir. It's comforting to know there are anti-bubbas out there that work to properly restore old classics.


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Dang that is turning into a truly fine looking rifle. I figure you where using something nasty to strip it. The on a and only time I like the stripper I used was when it was the really toxic, make you crazy or sterile if your not careful stuff. All the other less stringent ones just don't work, the poly finish just laughed at them and kept right on going.


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Very nice work Gus. Looking damn good!!


Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
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GusB, did you buy that front sight. Looks like someone won the auction at $9.51. That was a pretty good buy...


Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.

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Originally Posted by George_in_SD
Excellent work good sir. It's comforting to know there are anti-bubbas out there that work to properly restore old classics.



George, not to let the cat out of the bag, when are you going to show us some pics of your new 300H&H? A range report would be awesome as well!!!


Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.

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Got it BSA - thanks again for the heads-up. Also got the 2 rear sights someone else had for sale:
"...is a Lyman type 16 folding rear sight for a late mod. 70 with monte carlo stock made after 1954..."

Picture wasn't great on the Lyman so I'm hoping it works out.

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Looking good Gus ,should be a nice rifle when you are done.

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Originally Posted by Gusb
Got it BSA - thanks again for the heads-up. Also got the 2 rear sights someone else had for sale:
"...is a Lyman type 16 folding rear sight for a late mod. 70 with monte carlo stock made after 1954..."

Picture wasn't great on the Lyman so I'm hoping it works out.


Lyman made the 16A for the featherweights (1955-1963) and the 16B for the standard wts (1954-1963). They are basically the same sight except the leaf is taller on the 16A. This isn't because of the change to a montecarlo stock (like some guys think), but to make up the difference in height, because the fwt doesn't have the barrel boss wink


Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.

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Great info BSA.

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Ebay can be a funny thing. Not knowing how a Lyman 16B folding sight goes together I looked at a blurred photo (see last image below) thinking the misaligned ears must be loose screws and an adjustment. But the guy was actually selling a bent sight someone had banged so hard it would not even fold open anymore. He even sent both sights loose in a plain paper envelope that was all torn up in the mail when it arrived. Banged out the pin, pulled the 16B apart and did some body work, straightened it a bit - not perfect but I�ll use it to protect the dovetail cut in the barrel for a while until another comes along. The Lyman 6 that came with the �deal� looks good - now I just need a .375 H&H to go with it. smile

Hoping for better luck with the 103C that�s on it�s way from a different seller.
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Gus, it looks like with a little more massaging on that right ear you can straighten it out better. Pretty clean looking sight otherwise. Sucks about the poor packaging and sight being bent though. Did you contact the seller?


Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.

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Originally Posted by bsa1917hunter
Gus, it looks like with a little more massaging on that right ear you can straighten it out better. Pretty clean looking sight otherwise. Sucks about the poor packaging and sight being bent though. Did you contact the seller?

Thanks BSA. It's close now, vertical adjustment works, flips up/down, finish suffered where I hammered on it, hit it with a felt tip marker on that corner. Didn't contact the seller because I'm not sure it's worth the effort. I will question anything he's got up in future but won't do the negative feedback thing. Life's too short smile

Almost ready to bed the action before adding more finish to the stock. Should have the front sight in a few days.

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Cool, I look forward to seeing the finished product. Looks like you are doing it right and taking your time with it.


Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.

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Green gun full Brownell�s Acraglas. Hope it comes back apart. smile
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Well, at least it's gift wrapped for st pattys day whistle


Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.

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Wow that's a lot of green


Originally Posted by Bricktop
Then STFU. The rest of your statement is superflous bullshit with no real bearing on this discussion other than to massage your own ego.

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Better than turning your hands blue huh buddy... laugh whistle


Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.

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Originally Posted by bsa1917hunter
Better than turning your hands blue huh buddy... laugh whistle

Maybe better off with blue hands. The blue Brownells release stuff works really well. In future I�m staying away from green guns. The green tape (3M) was fine everywhere but one small piece of tape on the barrel seemed to have a couple of small spots in the bluing that either reacted with something on the tape or the tape itself (upsetting). Overkill anyway, didn�t have much squeeze-out with the Acraglas. Gun came apart with some effort - bed looks good. I�ll clean things up and get a few more pictures up.

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Here are a couple of suggestions, for a finish that is really easy to work with and looks correct for pre'64 Winchesters go to Timberluxe's website and check out their finish and stain. I am working on a M/52 Sporter stock that had been refinished and lacked the proper pre'64 Winchester red brown color. An application of Timberluxe stain and two applications of their finish and the stock is looking like it never had been refinished. One of the beauties of Timberluxe is that it is not necessary to strip the old finish, it will penetrate right thru the original. Their websited has a nice video explaining the process and downloadable instructions. Suggestion number two deals with glass bedding, as long as you use release agent per instructions only the edges of the barrel channel are the only area that I tape. For a nice smooth job sith the bedding, I attach a vibratory engraving tool to the barrel for the first 30 minutes or so after I place the metal into the stock. If you don't have an engraver and electric shaver will do. If the metal is hard to remove from the stock, STOP I cannot overemphacise this. Forcing things will nearly always result in a damaged stock. Find a chest freezer big enough to accomodate your rifle and freeze it for 8 hours or so. this will shrink the metal just enough that it should come out of the stock without damage to the stock. Another trick that sometimes "encourages" the metal to be freed from the bedding is to have a helper tap on the metal with a soft mallet while you apply pressure. What you are looking for is a woodpecker like tapping, not anything heavy handed.

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Good info gunwizard. I'll have to check into the timberluxe finish. Sounds interesting and somewhat easy. As far as the bedding goes, I don't use any tape unless I'm using it to center the barreled action in the stock and it also works well for adding clearance for a free float. Many ways to skin a cat, however, I've just never seen that much tape on a bedding job myself..


Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.

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Originally Posted by Gusb
Originally Posted by bsa1917hunter
Better than turning your hands blue huh buddy... laugh whistle

Maybe better off with blue hands. The blue Brownells release stuff works really well. In future I�m staying away from green guns. The green tape (3M) was fine everywhere but one small piece of tape on the barrel seemed to have a couple of small spots in the bluing that either reacted with something on the tape or the tape itself (upsetting). Overkill anyway, didn�t have much squeeze-out with the Acraglas. Gun came apart with some effort - bed looks good. I�ll clean things up and get a few more pictures up.


Gus, there's a pretty good Winchester model 70 glass bedding thread on this forum. You should check it out.

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Can't wait to see your finished project.

Here is a few pics of the 1949 stock project.

All I tape is the stock. Here it is all buttered up with Accraglass gel mixed with the stock dust from sanding. I bedded the entire action, tang and magazine well completely:

[Linked Image]

This is all I tape on metal. One layer on the front and sides of recoil lug. I use hardwood carnuba paste wax as release agent:

[Linked Image]

Wow does that look ugly all pressed and screwed together with stockmaker screws smile

[Linked Image]

I use a popsicle stick cut at a flat tip and scrape the excess off 10 minutes after screws are tightened:

[Linked Image]

And 24 hours later when I pulled her apart, took the tape off:

[Linked Image]

It always is a little nerveracking when you press the stock in when it is full of epoxy.

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Many ways to skin the cat. As long as you end up with a great shooting rifle, that's all that's important...Hornet, have you ever experimented with free floating a std wt? The one like you picture with the sight boss...


Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.

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Originally Posted by bsa1917hunter
Many ways to skin the cat. As long as you end up with a great shooting rifle, that's all that's important...Hornet, have you ever experimented with free floating a std wt? The one like you picture with the sight boss...


No I haven't actually. Not in the pre 64's at least. I have free floated all my classics. All my pre 64's seem to like a tight forearm. I am in the process of fitting a brand new stock to my 338 Alaskan, maybe I will play with the idea of floating it. It seemed to like very light tension compared to really clamping it down in the original stock.

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Sorry about the photo quality - it�s dark in the garage right now. In the photo with the recoil area you can see where the PO hogged out the barrel base area - trying to float everything back to the action I guess. I think putting a little support in the area next to where the barrel threads to the action is better. The PO had �balanced� the action at three places with 3 little nails, two is the recoil area and one back at the tang with a little epoxy at those locations. Kind of crazy and the action was not even setting straight. Now I have a full bed of support that runs around the magazine to the back of the tang area and everything snaps into place tight and straight, with a blob of support at the 30-06 stamp under the barrel. Only real hitch was the bolt release hit some bedding material that needed to be removed. Otherwise seems really solid and I can�t wait to see how it does at the range.
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Looking good Gus. Let us know how she shoots..


Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.

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More Ebay blues. Guy had 3 front sights for sale, 2 nice and 1 crapola with a broken bead. I bid/bought the 2 nice front sights, someone else bought the broken one for $1.58. Sure enough, the guy sends me one good sight I bought and the broken one. I imagine the �$1.58� guy has my other good sight now. This time I�ve contacted the seller�

On the plus side the good one seems usable...
UPDATE:Seller on ebay got back to me and did the decent thing smile

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Bedded, back together and range ready. Alignment of the barrel/action to the the stock seems much better too. Could use some more finish work on the stock and want to replace the recoil pad at some point. Iron sights seem to line up OK. Hope to get out this week.

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Gus, I think it looks great!!!!! I like the scope, mounts, new sights, and your stock refinish. You cleaned that rifle up very well. And to think, guys were saying not to buy this rifle. I'm glad you listened to some of us that were saying BUY IT!!!!! Good thread buddy. Thanks for sharing..


Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.

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Thanks for the positive feedback BSA (and the link to the front sight) - I'm waiting to see how it's shoots before I call it a slam dunk smile I also appreciate all the other comments and opinions, helpful to get it from all angles.

Now to find a front sight hood. Any opinions on what to replace the recoil pad with - I want either red or black? Maybe one of those grind-to-fit red Winchester solid rubber reproductions?

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The red Winchester reproduction pads won't add any extra value to the rifle over say a red pachmayr. I think the pachmayr, however, will soak up a little more recoil and look just as good as the reproduction pad. Because of this, my vote is for the pachmayr.


Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.

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Not much of a range report but here goes. I had replaced the scope after the stock refinish and glass bedding in more or less the same same place so I didn�t really expect it to be anywhere close. My son forgot to bring his spotting scope down so that left us with only my small Nikon binoculars. Started on the 25 yard range but my setup wasn�t even steady enough for even a rough bore-sight - fired 3 rounds (1st) that were closer than expected. Then jumped to the 50 yard target and fired 3 more (target 2nd). At this point (6 rounds) hadn�t touched the scope adjustments. Moved to the 100 yard range and couldn�t see much of anything with the little binoculars. So just played around a little at 100 yards without any adjustments to the scope - saved for another day when we can actually see the hits, etc. The Remington ammo seemed more accurate, the Federal stuff hitting lower and less consistent, but I should know more next time around.

The action seemed to work well. Loaded from the magazine without a hitch. Once or twice the brass did not seem to eject with the authority it should� most of the time it seemed OK. Any advice on how far the brass should eject and testing the extractor, etc.? Just had t-shirt on and I was a little surprised at the the recoil a few times, but maybe I�m just getting old. That black Pachmayr replacement I�m planning on may turn out to be more than cosmetic after all (on the bench anyway). Don�t really know enough to have a valid judgement but I was happy with the gun overall, my shooting skills being the main problem. I�ll try for a more controlled environment next time at the range.

Also found a front sight hood (see last photo) on eBay. Might look for original sling swivels or may leave them alone for a while.

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Put the front sight hood on today and finished cleaning the 30-06. Went to adjust the scope variable back to the lower range and realized it would not turn. Looked like it was jammed into the tube/ring mount and I started thinking about recoil - the scope moving in the rings. You can see how much the tube moved in the photograph (compared to previous posts). The rings still seemed tight so I began to evenly loosen them to free the power adjustment ring and get it away from the mount. I had those off for the bedding job and had carefully put them back but was trying not to over tighten the rings on the tube - thought I had them pretty tight. Right in the middle of this process, I suddenly realized the front ring base mount (down on the receiver's tapped holes) was completely loose. The mounts had been tight and I had left them on when I pulled the scope. Those screws I had never touched, thinking they had been in place for years and didn�t want to over torque - guess I should have checked them. So for those later shots at the range at 100 yards (above) the scope must have been bouncing around all over the place. The rear bridge receiver mount was still tight.

Might leave the scope off for the next round to check the iron sights. Are the plug screws with stops from Brownells appropriate? Maybe going forward I should pick up some Torx screws, etc. for the mounts�

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A trick that I have used for years to prevent scope movement in the rings is to wrap one turn of double stick tape around the scope in the location of the rings. Prior to doing this you want to make sure the crosshairs are square and there is sufficient eye relief. If these are good to go, put a piece of masking tape on one ring and on the scope and make a reference mark with a pencil. This will assure you retain squareness and eye relief when you re-assemble with the double stick tape. Some prefer powdered rosin for this job, but after having tried both I prefer the doublestick tape. Before you apply the tape be sure to clean the scope and inside of the rings with a good de-greaser.

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Originally Posted by gunswizard
A trick that I have used for years to prevent scope movement in the rings is to wrap one turn of double stick tape around the scope in the location of the rings....


Thanks gunswizard. In my �scope mounting ignorance� I may have even had a light film of oil on the tube, much less degreased and taped! I�ll try to get everything together following your advice.

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Gus, assuming everything is working properly,ejection should be controlled by how smartly you move the bolt to the rear.

We've become a nation of BR shooters so lots of times we sit and move the bolts sedately while sitting at a bench,so ejection will be less spirited; but M70's (like any good CRF) were meant to be run hard and if it's working properly should toss a case across the room in rapid fire as you move the bolt smartly and hard to the rear.

If it isn't doing this you may have some debris in the slot that houses the ejector.

Whip that bolt back like you want to break it(you never will)...it should eject fine smile




The 280 Remington is overbore.

The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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Originally Posted by BobinNH
Gus, assuming everything is working properly,ejection should be controlled by how smartly you move the bolt to the rear... Whip that bolt back like you want to break it(you never will)...it should eject fine smile


Thanks for the feedback BobinNH. I�m probably babying it a bit too much, it is much better used with some authority. One curious thing I noticed (using snap caps before the range trip), when cycled with an unfired bolt it seems to have a bit more trouble. Maybe my imagination but if I load 2 snap rounds, and fire on each before ejecting everything seems fine, if I don�t fire and just cycle the rounds they don�t seem to eject as well.

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Gus, keep an eye on your extractor too. That can cause irregular ejection as well..


Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
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Originally Posted by bsa1917hunter
Gus, keep an eye on your extractor too. That can cause irregular ejection as well..

Thanks BSA. Not knowing what I�m looking at, I always figured the extractor had it�s face reworked a little by the PO. Attached are a few iPhone photos, not sure if you can see things well enough to tell what�s going on there. I assume the pitting (which I worried about for a while) is maybe from a bad reload, loose primer at some point, etc.? But does the face of this extractor look like someone messed with it, maybe to make it snap more easily over a loose round dropped in - not in the magazine?
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That one has seen a lot of use (probably the original). My 270 fwt's extractor went bad and I noticed the ejection wasn't as good as normal. It sounds funny, because when you think of poor ejection, your first thought is worn ejector. A good test is to slide a cartridge (or even just a piece of brass) into the extractor and bolt face with the bolt out of the rifle. If it holds the brass (or cartridge) in place, your extractor is good. There should be enough tension there to hold the brass when the bolt is held horizontally. Please refer to pics:

Very good extractor. Notice how it holds the cartridge out straight with minimal droop:
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]

An extractor with a tad bit more wear. Cartridge droops a little more than the one above:
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]

When the extractor is really worn or broken, it won't even hold the cartridge. This will also have an effect on feeding and ejection...


Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.

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Originally Posted by bsa1917hunter
That one has seen a lot of use (probably the original)...

Much appreciated info, BSA. Mine will hold a round but if I move the bolt around i can make the brass flop around and sag. Won�t fall out but not snapped in tight either.

I�ll shoot this thing a lot more before ever doing anything to the extractor but what are the options? Can one find the original part (NOS), or buy a high quality replacement and is serious gunsmith work required to replace it?

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Gus, you can find very good condition used ones on ebay and occasionally Numrich or brownells. Usually they don't require much (if any) fitting work. They are easy to replace too. If yours is working, I'd keep using it. It will probably last for many more years. Also make sure your ejector isn't gummed up with crud. I remember you cleaned the heck out of that rifle after you got it, but it wouldn't hurt to double check to make sure it is clean and free from debris. Sometimes you have to strip it down a little further to get that gunk out..


Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.

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Originally Posted by bsa1917hunter
Gus, you can find very good condition used ones on ebay and occasionally Numrich or brownells. Usually they don't require much (if any) fitting work. They are easy to replace too. If yours is working, I'd keep using it. It will probably last for many more years. Also make sure your ejector isn't gummed up with crud. I remember you cleaned the heck out of that rifle after you got it, but it wouldn't hurt to double check to make sure it is clean and free from debris. Sometimes you have to strip it down a little further to get that gunk out..


Seems to eject better after reading BobinNH�s comment above smile I think the extractor could grab a bit better. I had thought I read something somewhere about some after-market extractor that was really high quality�

I think the gun/ejector is pretty clean but interesting enough, I was poking around in the chamber (with flashlight) where the bolt locks up and saw what appeared to be a piece of loose metal stuck in a small opening - right where the the barrel ends. Managed to fish it out with a small screwdriver and magnet (steel I guess) and it looks like maybe an old small piece of the extractor? Everything else looks really good and original in there (to my untrained eye anyway) so I�m not sure what kind of calamity could have happened? The bolt seems to function/lock up the same as before.

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I like the 1911. Your photography is also very nice Gus. I wish I had a better camera!!! You are also right about Bobin. He knows his chit when it comes to Winchester model 70's. I have him on speed dial grin. Great guy in general too!!


Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.

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Originally Posted by Gusb
Originally Posted by bsa1917hunter
Gus, keep an eye on your extractor too. That can cause irregular ejection as well..

Thanks BSA. Not knowing what I�m looking at, I always figured the extractor had it�s face reworked a little by the PO. Attached are a few iPhone photos, not sure if you can see things well enough to tell what�s going on there. I assume the pitting (which I worried about for a while) is maybe from a bad reload, loose primer at some point, etc.? But does the face of this extractor look like someone messed with it, maybe to make it snap more easily over a loose round dropped in - not in the magazine?
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]

Those are iPhone photos?!!! Unreal. What version of the iPhone are you using? I need to chitcan my camera. Lol.

Eric

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Originally Posted by EricM

Those are iPhone photos?!!! Unreal. What version of the iPhone are you using? I need to chitcan my camera. Lol. Eric


Thanks BSA/Eric - the close-ups of the bolt face are indeed iPhone with outside daylight from a window. My phone is a 5s, latest greatest (this week , anyway smile ). I too am blown away with what you can do using these things. My wife has never owned a �real� camera but these days she�s taking pictures everywhere with her iPhone. The main negative I see with the iPhone (at this point) is you can�t control depth of field. In the post with the 1911, the 2 shots showing the .45 and the bit of broken steel are iPhone, the other showing inside the the breech is my Canon/35mm lens (the real camera).

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Damn, thanks for the info Gus.


Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.

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That looks like a pretty serious piece of metal that came out.


"There's more to optics than meets the eye."--anon

"...most of us would be better off losing half a pound around the waist than half a pound on our rifle."--dhg

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Originally Posted by pal
That looks like a pretty serious piece of metal that came out.


Not easy to see in the photos but it almost looks like it was sheared off the face of the extractor at some point and just lodged in the little gap where the barrel ends - more or less out of the way.

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Getting ready for the black D752 Pachmayr recoil pad I have on order. Plugged up the old screws holes - with walnut no less smile. One odd thing I noticed early on when I first pulled the old recoil pad, was a large plug (skillfully executed) that almost looks factory. Could someone have drilled a Standard stock with the Featherweight holes, and plugged when they realized the mistake? I know many �collectors� never remove the pad/plate, but anyone seen anything like this before?

Also need an opinion on a sling for this gun. Thinking about the Brownells LATIGO Sling (1� or 1-1/4�) or maybe the Brownells Competitor Plus (military-like and seems to only come in 1-1/4� width). What�s more �traditional� and thanks for any ideas.

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Originally Posted by Gusb
...a large plug... that almost looks factory...


You're joking!


"There's more to optics than meets the eye."--anon

"...most of us would be better off losing half a pound around the waist than half a pound on our rifle."--dhg

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Originally Posted by pal
Originally Posted by Gusb
...a large plug... that almost looks factory...


You're joking!


This is the first Model 70 I�ve owned (pre64 or otherwise) and I�m just fumbling along trying to learn and pickup what info I can. I�m well aware this big plug could have come from anywhere in the years following 1957, but the workmanship is of a much higher standard than the other �honest hunter� modifications I�ve found on the gun. I think the New Haven plant back in the day did not necessarily subscribe to the �disposable� attitudes we see everywhere today.

From the Roger Rule book:
On page 56 - �For the more serious problems, wood welding was used. The wood welder, using a piece of scrap wood that closely matched the damaged area, would cut, fit and glue it in place� Some stocks, too badly damaged or defective for repairs, were discarded before patching.�

And from page 152 - �Not only had the quality of the wood declined, but American black walnut as a species had become more and more scarce. It was therefore common for repairs to be made in order to avoid discarding a stock: these repairs were most prevalent after 1961. Photograph 6-12 shows a typical example��

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That book has a wealth of knowledge in it. I'm glad someone else reads it. Your rifle looks great gus. Have you had a chance to shoot it again (before you pulled the recoil pad off)? I was wondering if pulling that little piece of metal out of the inside of the receiver helped.


Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.

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Originally Posted by bsa1917hunter
That book has a wealth of knowledge in it. I'm glad someone else reads it. Your rifle looks great gus. Have you had a chance to shoot it again (before you pulled the recoil pad off)? I was wondering if pulling that little piece of metal out of the inside of the receiver helped.

Only have 30 rounds through it on that first range trip but I�m assuming a scope that�s not loose will help in future. smile Love the way the gun feels and shoots. We have a nice outdoor range but it�s a good haul up in hills and I�m traveling back east in a few days so decided to rub some more finish in the stock and play with the recoil pad install in the meanwhile.


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You might be right--they did a heck of a job matching the grain. But the lopsided appearance of the plug makes me suspicious.


"There's more to optics than meets the eye."--anon

"...most of us would be better off losing half a pound around the waist than half a pound on our rifle."--dhg

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Originally Posted by pal
You might be right--they did a heck of a job matching the grain. But the lopsided appearance of the plug makes me suspicious.


I agree about the lopsided, and of course the stock was cut down later for the after-market recoil pad. So had the plug been there it might have been a better blend job originally.

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Installed/ground the Pachmayr Decelerator, not perfect but I�m happy with the results. Maybe that lower �sharp� point on the bottom angle should be rounded a bit? Scope is tight (I hope :)), now to get to the range�
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Looking good gus..


Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.

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Originally Posted by Gusb
...Maybe that lower �sharp� point on the bottom angle should be rounded a bit?...


I'd round them both, a little. Looks great.


"There's more to optics than meets the eye."--anon

"...most of us would be better off losing half a pound around the waist than half a pound on our rifle."--dhg

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Thanks bsa/pal.

Just ordered this 1907 Military type sling from Brownells - any opinion?

http://www.brownells.com/shooting-a...itor-plus-sling-w-swivels-prod25733.aspx

May try to find original pre64 1-1/4" swivels at some point on eBay, etc.

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I wish I had known that was the sling you liked, I bought one of the Carlos Hathcock, white feather slings to go with my target in sporter stock, just to bulky and heavy. I have gone to the black light almost sponge jobs, Im all about comfort and lite these days. very best WinPoor

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Originally Posted by winchesterpoor
I wish I had known that was the sling you liked, I bought one of the Carlos Hathcock, white feather slings to go with my target in sporter stock, just to bulky and heavy. I have gone to the black light almost sponge jobs, Im all about comfort and lite these days. very best WinPoor


Thanks WPoor. I had looked at the Turner Slings website (www.turnersling.com) and also the Tam (www.lestam.com) guy in Hawaii.

But I�ve had good luck with Brownells in the past and they give their slings high praise in the descriptions so I thought I would bite. Almost went for their Quick-Set Latigo but the 1907 seemed more universal � someday I may find that Garand. smile Plus they seem to have a good return policy, etc.

Richard Turner, Turner Saddlery, P.O. Box 120, Clay, Alabama, 35048. (205) 680-9377 and Leslie Tam, 1411 Saint Louis Dr., Honolulu, HI 96816, (808) 737-5427.

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They are fantastic slings, and with the frogs you can set them up perfect. They are just so dog dam heavy and hard for me to 'break in' the oder I get the more I go the comfort route, As fat as military I love the old cotton duck web slings, all I own are a green OD color, I think they fit the Garand as well as some were done for the 30 cal carbine. I used to get them at the Army Navy store for 10 bucks but my last trip they said they were out and could get no more. I used to go up to Marine Corp base in Albany Ga for surplus auctions and had a chance to buy a bin of probably 400 of them for next to nothing ! This is a marine rebuild base and at one time they rebuilt all the Mod 70 Targets that were being used in Vietnam there! What I would not give for a mod 70 with the air gauged Douglas barrel they had just reworked along with the 8X Unertl !!!!! I would belly crawl the 40 mi back home from the base!!!! we live and learn! very best WinPoor

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Originally Posted by Gusb
Thanks bsa/pal.

Just ordered this 1907 Military type sling from Brownells - any opinion?

http://www.brownells.com/shooting-a...itor-plus-sling-w-swivels-prod25733.aspx

May try to find original pre64 1-1/4" swivels at some point on eBay, etc.


Gus, I've been known to use the old military leather slings like that one:

[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]

However, when I'm packing around my heavy boy Ruger M77 MKII 338 win mag during elk season, I opt for a light comfy old sling like this Uncle Mike's:
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]

One thing worth mentioning is, I stay away from the new uncle Mikes slings now because they use plastic hardware instead of steel like the older ones (one pictured above). I also keep a couple military type slings ready for the hunt and don't store them with my rifles. Most of my pre 64's still have the original sling swivels, so the leather slings get thrown on just before I go hunting.
[Linked Image]


Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.

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I also like the 1907-style military slings.
Bob

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I like the lefty Ruger. Makes me miss mine.


Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.

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Originally Posted by bsa1917hunter
Originally Posted by Gusb
Thanks bsa/pal.

Just ordered this 1907 Military type sling from Brownells - any opinion?

http://www.brownells.com/shooting-a...itor-plus-sling-w-swivels-prod25733.aspx

May try to find original pre64 1-1/4" swivels at some point on eBay, etc.


Gus, I've been known to use the old military leather slings like that one:

[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]

However, when I'm packing around my heavy boy Ruger M77 MKII 338 win mag during elk season, I opt for a light comfy old sling like this Uncle Mike's:
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]

One thing worth mentioning is, I stay away from the new uncle Mikes slings now because they use plastic hardware instead of steel like the older ones (one pictured above). I also keep a couple military type slings ready for the hunt and don't store them with my rifles. Most of my pre 64's still have the original sling swivels, so the leather slings get thrown on just before I go hunting.
[Linked Image]

The leather Montana slings work well. They're easily adjustable and don't have any metal hardware if your worried about the stock.

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I like metal hardware, because I've had the cheap plastic ones break. Post a link for the Montana sling and we can check them out. Thanks...


Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.

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Found it (I think). Ben, those won't work with factory pre 64 win model 70 sling swivels...:

http://ads.midwayusa.com/product/2436146992

[Linked Image]


Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.

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I've got one on my rifle. You can get them with out sewn swivels, but with Chicago screws. Take it apart and put it on your swivels . pretty easy but I don't take it off very often.

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I take mine off after hunting (especially during elk season), because they get soaked from the rain. Don't want my rifles getting rusty (from a wet sling) in the safe.. Do you have one of these slings on your fwt in the micky stock?


Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.

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Yeah. I like them alot. Typical if anything gets wet I make sure everything is good and dry before I put it away. Never had any trouble with the leather retaining moisture or having to work about the rifle itself.
[Linked Image]

I actually prefer the swivels on the factory stock. They seem less clunky and whatnot. If I knew how to install the swivels on the edge idbthink about it.

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I like that rifle Ben. It reminds me of my 270 fwt.. Those stocks are just about a perfect match for the fwt's..


Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.

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Yep, its hard to find something to complain about. I've been reaching for that rifle over my factory stocked 06 more and more.

If you haven't tried the Montana sling yet. I'd give it a shot. Try the one with the swivels, or try the one with Chicago screws. Its probably worth spending the 5-10 minutes to remove the sling when needed.

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Nothing wrong with your wood stocked 06 either. I have one just like it, and it is definitely one of my favorites.. Those Montana slings look like just the ticket too. Thanks..


Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.

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Originally Posted by keystoneben
Yep, its hard to find something to complain about. I've been reaching for that rifle over my factory stocked 06 more and more.

If you haven't tried the Montana sling yet. I'd give it a shot. Try the one with the swivels, or try the one with Chicago screws. Its probably worth spending the 5-10 minutes to remove the sling when needed.



I ran the Chicago Screw Montana Sling on my 338 when using the wood stock. Worked excellent as Ben mentioned.

[Linked Image]

The Montana sling works very nice as it can be tightened up in order to stay outta the way when your hunting through thicker vegetation.

I have sorta started the transition to M1907 slings. I have one on order from Turners Slings. He will sell you at a reasonable price (I think) a set of swivels that will replace the Pre64 swivels so you can use the wider 1.25" sling. If your a hasty sling shooter, the Montana works real well, but if you like to get into a loop sling the Turner is EXCELLENT. I borrowed one from a friend and have really been doing well on the range with it. Locked into the sling from prone or sitting really changes my shooting alot.

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]


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A sling makes a hell of a difference if you have it adjusted right and you know how to use it. I remember shooting some offhand comps where it was not allowed. Many guys could not hit the 4" steel at 100 yards to save their lives. It may have been a different story if a sling were allowed.


Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.

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Originally Posted by bsa1917hunter
A sling makes a hell of a difference if you have it adjusted right and you know how to use it. I remember shooting some offhand comps where it was not allowed. Many guys could not hit the 4" steel at 100 yards to save their lives. It may have been a different story if a sling were allowed.


Without a doubt. I shot this off the ground at 200 yards with the sling a few weeks back just after I put my 338 in the McMillan. I think that is about as good as I can hold in the field.

[Linked Image]


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I may be wrong but I think Turner built the Carlos Hathcock signed, 'White feather' sling I have, it still has the small white feather attached. I do not use it so if any of you guys need or want one you are welcome to it for what I have in it, 50 bucks. very best WinPoor

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Scotty a Brownell Latigo allows you to use a loop. Have you tried one of those?




The 280 Remington is overbore.

The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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Bob I haven't tried the Brownells Latigo but I believe it's the same as the M1907 isn't it? I know Brownells sling is great stuff. I'm going to google up the Latigo to check though.


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Originally Posted by beretzs
Originally Posted by bsa1917hunter
A sling makes a hell of a difference if you have it adjusted right and you know how to use it. I remember shooting some offhand comps where it was not allowed. Many guys could not hit the 4" steel at 100 yards to save their lives. It may have been a different story if a sling were allowed.


Without a doubt. I shot this off the ground at 200 yards with the sling a few weeks back just after I put my 338 in the McMillan. I think that is about as good as I can hold in the field.

[Linked Image]


Good shooting Scotty!! Have I told you I really like your Alaskan? grin...I hope GusB is taking notes.. laugh


Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.

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Proper use of a 1907-type sling is a valuable skill to a knowledgeable rifleman. Here's my shooting buddy, John Buol, former All-Army champion, using one during a quick 200 yd 5-shot string. Rifle is my old M70 .270. Note that the sling is tight and rides high on the left arm/bicep.
Bob

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Originally Posted by beretzs
I have sorta started the transition to M1907 slings..

Looks you dispatched that pink varmint lying face down on the carpet just in time - close call smile

I ordered the Competitor Plus (1-1/4 inch wide - Brownells reproduction of the original 1907 Military Sling) with QR swivels because I�m already missing the originals and the PO had put what looks like Uncle Mike�s posts on the stock. I guess most pre64 M70 swivels were 1 inch, which could be an issue with this sling? I like the blue steel frogs/hooks on the Brownells, I�ll put a picture up when it comes in. Wayne van Zwoll/others have always said good things about Brownells Latigo and I think it comes in 1-inch width.

There�s a current a little book called �MASTERING THE SHOOTING POSITIONS
and Leather Sling by M/Sgt. JIM OWENS that seems to be a knowledgeable read on the 1907 sling. I picked it up on iBooks (might be on Amazon too).

Those Rugers make me miss my big .375 H&H M77 RSM MARK II sold a few years back. And now Ruger doesn�t make those guns anymore.

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That book by Owens is supposed to be real good. Might have to see if I can find a copy.

Yeah, Bob mentioned the Brownells Latigo, that seems like a great shooting aid as well.


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Got my new sling from Brownells. Looks a little too �unused� right now but kind of cool � just needs a little history. Seems like nice quality. Like WinPoor says, kind of heavy but I may lose the scope on this gun for a peep at some point anyway. Now if I can just figure out how to adjust and use the thing smile - the Owens book should help.

The QR swivels are GrovTec � they seem OK. Brownells even included 2 replacement frogs/hooks. Leather seems nice, just needs a little breaking in.

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and extra frogs!
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Gus, that's a rifle to be proud of!!


Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.

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I agree, nice rifle! That sling needs to be dragged behind a car for a few miles, and rubbed with leather oil. smile

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I like the finish on the stock.


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The gun turned out very nice!I bet it shoots as well as it looks too. BRAVO! winpoor

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grub, Very nice looking rifle! If I could offer one suggestion - get rid of the Weaver rings. I know they work just fine but they look terrible IMO.

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Reelman, I am like you on one hand! Those weaver rings sure are homely BUT Ill be dog dam if they are mor some of the very toughest I have ever mounted on a centerfire or rimfire, I have a set on a model 43 in 218bee that has been on the gun since day one, 35 years ,same 2x7 scope, That gun was a work gun and has been banged around 300K + mies in 4x4 and jeeps, haytrucks, tractors, you name it , they are so worn from gun laying on left pure alum is worn to split ring screw holes! UGLY but tough as nails, Strap top is too!very best winpoor

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Originally Posted by EricM
I agree, nice rifle! That sling needs to be dragged behind a car for a few miles, and rubbed with leather oil. smile

Eric



Yes, or have some old indian squaw nibble on it for a few days laugh


Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.

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Originally Posted by winchesterpoor
Reelman, I am like you on one hand! Those weaver rings sure are homely BUT Ill be dog dam if they are mor some of the very toughest I have ever mounted on a centerfire or rimfire, I have a set on a model 43 in 218bee that has been on the gun since day one, 35 years ,same 2x7 scope, That gun was a work gun and has been banged around 300K + mies in 4x4 and jeeps, haytrucks, tractors, you name it , they are so worn from gun laying on left pure alum is worn to split ring screw holes! UGLY but tough as nails, Strap top is too!very best winpoor



Good post. I agree with both of you guys..


Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.

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They are a solid ring and look at all the picitiny rails used now which is pretty much just a steel weaver base. And once you get the scope straight (usually after 8 or 10 times of trying) they don't move.

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8 or 10. You are better than me. Usually about 13, cussing, a few drinks, couple breaks and it's done.. laugh


Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.

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LMAO!, I got good, I would leave X hair about 4,5 degree off plum and crank that ole strap down! You guys are right, I cussed a blue storm till I would get it right! Its on then!I think the wide flat spring steel will hold plum till the cows come home! very best winpoor

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We know why you left it in those mounts and rings for 35 years. You finally got it perfect and you didn't want to [bleep] with it again!!!!! laugh whistle


Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.

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Originally Posted by winchesterpoor
LMAO!, I got good, I would leave X hair about 4,5 degree off plum and crank that ole strap down! You guys are right, I cussed a blue storm till I would get it right! Its on then!I think the wide flat spring steel will hold plum till the cows come home! very best winpoor


And when you leave the crosshairs a little off plum that darn rings don't grab it and turn the scope, then you put the crosshairs straight and it grabs and pulls them off! ARG!!!

I hope you know I'm just giving you crap. It's a gorgous set up and Weaver rings are a nice solid ring, they just aggravate me to no end.

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Quick trip to the range today, tweaking the scope a little. Can�t stop flinching and after 20 rounds or so it doesn�t seem to get any better smile. More Remington Core-lokt 180 GR. I need lots of practice but I think the gun is doing ok. One shot I thought was off paper was on top of the previous.
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Looks very huntable to me. I imagine once you find what it likes it'll drive nails.


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Thanks for all the positive/helpful comments, much appreciated. As far as the Weaver rings I may lose the scope (after a few more range trips) anyway if I can find a really nice old Lyman 48 WJS at some point down the line.

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Finally picked up this Lyman 48 WJS on eBay and it looks like it's never been mounted or used on anything. Photos don't really do it justice, it looks even better up close. Ground/dovetailed steel "L" bar and heavy - I can see why they don't make them like this anymore. The box/screws are there, but no instructions. Anyone have a photocopy/pdf of the old paperwork? I'll put up another picture when I get it mounted. [Linked Image]
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Nice piece.


"There's more to optics than meets the eye."--anon

"...most of us would be better off losing half a pound around the waist than half a pound on our rifle."--dhg

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You lucked out on the Lyman 48WJS sight. I need to find a 48WH for my 1949 270 Target. Good snag!

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I think it looks right at home. Also seems like the other rear site is out of the way when folded down, so maybe I don�t need a blank?


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Looks like it belongs there.


"There's more to optics than meets the eye."--anon

"...most of us would be better off losing half a pound around the waist than half a pound on our rifle."--dhg

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Your rifle is looking great Gus!!


Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.

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Looks spot on. That is a beautiful 70.


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Thanks for the positive comments smile

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Awesome. And perfect for lefty manipulation.
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A1 model 70, if its OK to ask, what camera are you using for photos? I have about 30 Winchesters to sell and these are the sharpest gun photos on our forum! thanks,winpoor

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winpoor, if I remember right, he's using a smart phone. EricM and I were both commenting on his pictures a while back and I was amazed that it was the camera on his phone..


Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.

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Wow! I have a mil spec flip phone and it will not come close, I will charge my wifes smart phone and give it a try. Those are sharp gun photos! thanks WinPoor

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Very nice Gus! Here is the best I have, not instructions, but a little info.

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Originally Posted by winchesterpoor
Wow! I have a mil spec flip phone and it will not come close, I will charge my wifes smart phone and give it a try. Those are sharp gun photos! thanks WinPoor


Hey WinPoor,

I have 2 cameras, an older Canon 7D with a few "prime (read - no zoom)" lenses and a new iPhone 6.

BSA is correct, some of the previous photos were an iPhone 5s, the new iPhone 6 has an even better camera. The iPhone cameras can do amazing stuff (considering their size, etc.) but it's still all about setup and what you do with what you have. These shots of the Lyman 48 were the Canon with a low-end 50mm macro lens. The Winchester is sitting on the sling balanced on the edge of my desk. The camera is on a tripod just using the available light. IMHO - stay away from flash, unless you have a bunch of fancy external stuff (and know how to use it). Find a window with some nice light, etc.

Any decent point/shoot or entry-level SLR... Nikon, Canon, etc. is probably a good camera these days. There's a story about an encounter between Ernest Hemingway and Ansel Adams, Hemingway saying, "You take the most amazing pictures. What kind of camera do you use?" Adams reply, "You write the most amazing stories. What kind of typewriter do you use?"

Look forward to seeing all those Winchesters smile

Thanks,
Gus

Edit: One more point I think I made in an earlier post, the iPhone is a fixed aperture (f/2.2). This can be limiting. There are a few apps that will let the phone kinda act like a real camera on manual. Might make sense to grab an entry level Canon/Nikon with an economical macro lens and tripod if you�re really serious about results.

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Originally Posted by Odessa
Very nice Gus! Here is the best I have, not instructions, but a little info.

Interesting page - thanks Odessa.

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Originally Posted by Gusb
Originally Posted by winchesterpoor
Wow! I have a mil spec flip phone and it will not come close, I will charge my wifes smart phone and give it a try. Those are sharp gun photos! thanks WinPoor


Hey WinPoor,

I have 2 cameras, an older Canon 7D with a few "prime (read - no zoom)" lenses and a new iPhone 6.

BSA is correct, some of the previous photos were an iPhone 5s, the new iPhone 6 has an even better camera. The iPhone cameras can do amazing stuff (considering their size, etc.) but it's still all about setup and what you do with what you have. These shots of the Lyman 48 were the Canon with a low-end 50mm macro lens. The Winchester is sitting on the sling balanced on the edge of my desk. The camera is on a tripod just using the available light. IMHO - stay away from flash, unless you have a bunch of fancy external stuff (and know how to use it). Find a window with some nice light, etc.

Any decent point/shoot or entry-level SLR... Nikon, Canon, etc. is probably a good camera these days. There's a story about an encounter between Ernest Hemingway and Ansel Adams, Hemingway saying, "You take the most amazing pictures. What kind of camera do you use?" Adams reply, "You write the most amazing stories. What kind of typewriter do you use?"

Look forward to seeing all those Winchesters smile

Thanks,
Gus

Edit: One more point I think I made in an earlier post, the iPhone is a fixed aperture (f/2.2). This can be limiting. There are a few apps that will let the phone kinda act like a real camera on manual. Might make sense to grab an entry level Canon/Nikon with an economical macro lens and tripod if you�re really serious about results.

Thanks Gus, I have a tripod for my spotting scope, Im charging up my late wife's smartphone ,Ive been using a Nikon Cool Pix S 30 that rolled out under the seat of a rental car, Rental folks said there was no way to return phone ,they even tried tracking last 5 renters all across USA and I left all phone nos and address so as to return to owner. I finally ordered cable to download to computer and new battery. Its just OK. Those last shots of iron Lyman are off the chart sharp! That is what I am looking for vis gun photos.

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Quote
Thanks Gus, I have a tripod for my spotting scope, Im charging up my late wife's smartphone ,Ive been using a Nikon Cool Pix S 30 that rolled out under the seat of a rental car, Rental folks said there was no way to return phone ,they even tried tracking last 5 renters all across USA and I left all phone nos and address so as to return to owner. I finally ordered cable to download to computer and new battery. Its just OK. Those last shots of iron Lyman are off the chart sharp! That is what I am looking for vis gun photos.


I think your smart to be concerned if you�re selling all those 70s. A �good� honest photo can either bring out the best on a used product or a �crappy� honest photo can bring out worst. The Lyman 48 in the photos I almost didn�t bid on (eBay) because the photos were so out of focus I could hardly tell what it was - only one other guy bid on it (I think because of the photos). Allowed me to get it for a reasonable amount - decided to take a chance and it worked out.

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Originally Posted by Gusb
Originally Posted by winchesterpoor
Wow! I have a mil spec flip phone and it will not come close, I will charge my wifes smart phone and give it a try. Those are sharp gun photos! thanks WinPoor


Hey WinPoor,

I have 2 cameras, an older Canon 7D with a few "prime (read - no zoom)" lenses and a new iPhone 6.

BSA is correct, some of the previous photos were an iPhone 5s, the new iPhone 6 has an even better camera. The iPhone cameras can do amazing stuff (considering their size, etc.) but it's still all about setup and what you do with what you have. These shots of the Lyman 48 were the Canon with a low-end 50mm macro lens. The Winchester is sitting on the sling balanced on the edge of my desk. The camera is on a tripod just using the available light. IMHO - stay away from flash, unless you have a bunch of fancy external stuff (and know how to use it). Find a window with some nice light, etc.

Any decent point/shoot or entry-level SLR... Nikon, Canon, etc. is probably a good camera these days. There's a story about an encounter between Ernest Hemingway and Ansel Adams, Hemingway saying, "You take the most amazing pictures. What kind of camera do you use?" Adams reply, "You write the most amazing stories. What kind of typewriter do you use?"

Look forward to seeing all those Winchesters smile

Thanks,
Gus

Edit: One more point I think I made in an earlier post, the iPhone is a fixed aperture (f/2.2). This can be limiting. There are a few apps that will let the phone kinda act like a real camera on manual. Might make sense to grab an entry level Canon/Nikon with an economical macro lens and tripod if you�re really serious about results.


You sure are full of good info. Great pictures as winpoor said too.


Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.

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I sell Winchester rifles just like I do cattle and airplanes,I let them sell themselves... A good photo goes a long way to that end.. very best WinPoor

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Amen..


Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.

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Finally got a short trip to the range with the Lyman 48WJS. Went to the 50 yd with all sight adjustments set on zero. Using a 16 inch square Redfield target the first shots were 8 inches up at the edge of the paper and maybe 1 inch to the right. Everything grouped well so I started moving the shots/sight down into the center. A click or two to the left got rid of the inch to the right. All the shots moved down as expected until the site bottomed out on the receiver. So now if I hold the bead right under the bull (at 50 yards) it hit dead nuts - if I put the bead dead on the shots are a little high. So maybe a new/modified (higher/lower) front sight is in order?

I know this gun probably never had a 48WJS on it before and I think the current front sight is more or less correct, although it did come from eBay. The good news is I can't believe how well the gun groups with the peep. Any opinions on how to procede (new front sight, etc.) to get some height adjustability/flexibility back at the 48WJS?

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Higher front sight... Looks good Gus..


Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.

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All the old timers taught me the 6 o'clock hold from day one , sounds like yours is set perfect ..... Granted Ive not read the whole thread!!! very best Winpor

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Gusb,

Not sure where you are hitting relative to the bead, but most hunters sight in such that the impact is at the top of the bead. This is because the bead can cover up too much of an animal or other unspecific field target (as opposed to a big, fat, NRA target meant to be aimed at.) Many serious iron sight users opt for a flat topped post, but this would not be "correct" for your Model 70, and you may want to keep it correct. Some other serious iron sight users opt for a small globe front like the Lyman 17A. You would be surprised what can be done with an aperture rear, a globe front, and the right insert. It is a paradigm shift using a front sight you can look "through" rather than "at." But again, not "correct" if you care about that.

Just my opinion, but I think a nice Model 70 like your with a Monte Carlo deserves a scope about like the one that came on yours.


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Nice thread, great craftsmanship, good advice, not so good advice, nice job overall. I didn't see this post until today. I saved all my replies for now.

1. I think it was a solid $750 purchase; folks may find steals but not everyday.

2. The stock was the biggest detractor. My initial thoughts on it were redo it and make a nice glass bedded shooter; you did that and very well! The Decelerator could NOT have been installed better! The previous owners did the stock mods/repairs/butchers/etc.

3. Don't buy a new Williams extractor. They are a great upgrade to the pressed metal extractors on the Classics, but are no better than an original pre 64 and would be un original. There are plenty of used extractors on eBay. I have a few and may part with one if we can come to a deal on your Lyman 6W.

4. You recouped a good deal of your investment with that Lyman 6W if you didn't pay too much for it; They are pricey!

5. I agree that the Monte Carlo comb, flip 16a or b, whichever is correct, and that Leupold make a nice hunting rifle. Find yourself a low comb stock with a steel buttplate to match up with that Lyman 48.

Randy Shuman, one of the contributors on Roger Rules books told me that Winchester did offer different front sight heights to get the guns zeroed(factory original installation). I have seen the gold bead Redfield front sights, that were on Supergrades in various heights. Lyman front sights were used on the very early guns.

The M70 came out predawn of optics for everyday use. Guys didn't fully trust optics until the mid 50's, hence the various detachable scope mounts. I think you should shop around for a vintage Lyman front sight of the proper height for your application. Find a vintage blank for that rear sight dovetail while you are at it. I think I would scope that gun up again and find a steel butt wearing low comb standard gun to wear that Lyman 48! I am serious, not joking, I would buy another gun to match that sight! The gun you have looks like a solid hunter!

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Good post Mike. Glad to have you aboard..


Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
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Thanks sbrmike for the kind words and experienced feedback. I especially appreciate the "Decelerator" comment, I fabricated/welded together a base to mount my belt sander just to grind that pad. At least now I can do another at some point if the need comes up.

You have, I think, kind of hit the nail on the head. I'm always lusting after an old .375 H&H with a straight stock and aperture sight and that kinda skews my better judgment sometimes. I'm really beginning to like shooting the 30-06 and may put the Leupold back on and put the Lyman 48 in it's box for a collectable paper weight for a while. I think there have been a few negative comments about the Weaver mounts, I kind of like the look (reminds me of being a kid). Any advice on mounts (appropriate old, new Leupold, etc.)?

I wanted the Lyman 6W for that special ".375 H&H down the road" that may or may not ever happen. Maybe we can work out some kind of trade at some point. It seems in really good shape - what do you think "ball-park" value would be? Would one of your used extractors fit/function correctly without special work? My original still seems to function well enough, just looks like it's been messed with a little.

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I will say this Weaver bases hold zero, period! There are some Weaver or Weaver style out there with rounded cross slots instead of the squared slots; I can't vouch for those, but the square cross slots are tough and hold zero/repeatable zero.
There are lots of rings out there that are easier to install than the Weaver banded style.

A nice Lyman 6W recently sold for $175 on eBay. If they are complete on a 375 base they sell for $250 all day long. There is a 458 sight on ebay that started at #250 and has been reduced/relisted numerous times with no takers. I almost think about getting it and putting it on my 375 but I think the hole spacing is different. I also think that the guys who own Africans don't mess with them much, hence no need for a replacement sight to replace one that had been removed by the previous owner. 75% of the 375's for sale are missing the rear sight; I lucked out and at least have the base on mine.

As far as extractors go on pre 64's is if undamaged/unaltered it should work just fine as a drop-in. The extractor collar has a function in this operation as well. The collars do need to fit the bolt properly and exert tension on the extractor. You extractor looks damaged and/or altered.

Something to always consider on pre 64's is they were hand fit and finished by gunsmiths; they were not put together by laborers off of the street. Things like stocks and buttplates are less than 50% chance of going together and fitting as the stocks were hand sanded and then the buttplates fit and married to that stock. The barrels were also hand polished by a human and they vary in diameter.

I do not think you could go wrong with a low comb 375 with a Lyman 48 on it. There are tons of them out there with no rear sight! I once had a 375 with a Lyman 48 WJS mounted that could be left on while using a scope. I used Leupold QR bases. I had a friend mill down the top surface of the base and the torx heads a bit to where the slide from the Lyman 48 went low enough to zero and clear the scope tube.

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There is a Lyman 37FA front sight on eBay right now. The 103C and Lyman 31W were both .310" high; that 37FA will be .370" high. Here is the formula:

Inches error times the sight radius in inches then divide the result by the distance to the target in inches equals the height difference for the sight.

ETA: I am not looking too hard for a Lyman 6W. My gun is reblued plus they are calibrated for 200 and 500 yards! I like my irons @ 50-75 yards!

I went back and did the math that will only get you halfway there assuming the installed front sight is .310" high; you need .120" taller than .310 or .430 high and that probably won't fit with a hood.

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FWIIW about Weaver base and rings . . . One of the more famous .375 M70s in the world is the one owned for years by Finn Aagaard. I believe it is still in his family, and I hope it remains so. In every picture of it I have ever seen, it wears Weaver bases and ring. Finn did his share of minor gunsmithing on his rifles, adding cross bolts to the stock and other such things. I believe he fit a new M70 stock to that very rifle. I'd bet Mr. Aagaard was aware of other mounts, could get them if he wanted, and certainly had the ability to mount them. He USED his rifles, and he expected them to work.

One of my projects is a 9.3x62 on a commercial FN action from a Higgins M50. The rear scope mount holes are non-standard spacing (for Mauser) on some M50s, and this is the case with mine. This particular rifle will probably cause me to settle on Weaver style bases from Warne. Since I would like quick detach and return to zero, I am seriously considering the "ugly" Weaver rings as a tip of the hat to Mr. Aagaard. I know there are nicer looking rings that will also return to zero, but I am considering homage to a great hunter.

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Gus, Great job bringing the old girl back from the dark side. That is truly a piece to be proud of now, and as Mike said, the pad job looks particularly good- better than on a lot of factory rifles you see nowadays. With minimal TLC it should be good for a couple more lifetimes. Very Best, John

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Thanks for all the kind words and info!

I don't think the Lyman "six" sight I have is a proper .375 H&H replacement? This sight does not have the cut notch I see in Rule's book (page 166)? Has "Lyman 6" engraved on the bottom but I don't see a W anywhere. Great shape, nice knurls on the edges but doesn't look correct for the .375, M70. I'm thinking it may be for another gun (1895, etc.)? If so, can anyone rough date it?

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That front sight pictured looks low, like a .260? I don't know what that Lyman 6 sight is? I haven't seen very many and it has been a while. I wonder if the one blade is milled down flat?


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OK - just found another one on ebay (photo credit to them [UPDATE: sold for $125.50]) - not as nice as mine but has the packaging. Bids are approaching $100 so somebody must want them. Looks like anything from a Winchester 90, 94, Marlin 92, 93, Savage 99 to a Remington Model 25 may have used this Lyman 6.

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Here's a link to one on an old Savage:
http://www.savage99.com/rear_sights.htm

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I am not a expert by any means and the few that I have seen were mostly long ago, but I am going to venture a guess that the W in 6W designates an original equipment version for factory installation, which differs from the common aftermarket Lyman model 6. I think that is why the 6W's go for so much.

The 6W was original equipment on some model 54 Winchesters as well as the M70 in 375 H&H with base(later) or without base(earlier).

Do some more research and if not what was original/acceptable to the Winchester 70 or 54, you may as well make a couple of bucks for yourself, unless the other makes of vintage guns charge your batteries!



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Pulling the Lyman 48 off and putting the Leupold back on - just don't want to go to a incorrect/higher front sight, etc.

Still trying to improve this gun a bit and thinking of buying a replacement extractor per sbrmike's comments. Finally pulled the firing pin and it looks like somebody ("gunsmith") did a little work on it too. I'm thinking that at some point an overcharged round or weak primer caused some havoc? Then someone kissed the bolt face on a lathe and messed with the extractor and firing pin to "clean things up". Note the earlier post where I found a tiny steel shaving in a corner of the action.

A few questions (thanks for any feedback) :
1) Would a factory intact bolt-face still have some finish on it and not be turned?
2) Could kissing the boltface this way have changed the head spacing? I've put 80 rounds through the gun so far and everything seems OK.
3) Should I be replacing that firing pin?
4) Anyone know what the spec for the firing pin hole diameter should be? The hole looks clean but it occurred to me someone may have reamed it?
5) Does this extractor look really messed up function-wise or just cosmetically?

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The bolt and firing pin look fine. Many are just like that. After 1952 or 1954??? They started cutting the bolt face back for final headspace instead of using a couple more reamers in the barrel. The firing pin may have been fit by the factory or a gunsmith, the point looks good and that is an important thing; if it cocks and goes on Safe alright it is good to go. You could check firing pin protrusion by assembling the bolt assembly and "Firing" the striker. A dime makes a good protrusion gauge for the tip protruding the bolt face. There have been some dandy extractors on the old eBay lately! You need an "A" marked extractor.


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Originally Posted by sbrmike
The bolt and firing pin look fine. Many are just like that. After 1952 or 1954??? They started cutting the bolt face back for final headspace instead of using a couple more reamers in the barrel. The firing pin may have been fit by the factory or a gunsmith, the point looks good and that is an important thing; if it cocks and goes on Safe alright it is good to go. You could check firing pin protrusion by assembling the bolt assembly and "Firing" the striker. A dime makes a good protrusion gauge for the tip protruding the bolt face. There have been some dandy extractors on the old eBay lately! You need an "A" marked extractor.


Does that mean you have extractors on eBay? smile If so, give me a link.

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No I just so some super clean ones there or possibly on gunbroker. I search: pre 64 Winchester 70


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Originally Posted by sbrmike
No I just so some super clean ones there or possibly on gunbroker. I search: pre 64 Winchester 70


Thanks for all your help - really appreciated! I'll look for the "A" smile

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Just a side note but if a pre 64 extractor is needed for a standard chambering,a guy can use a 1917 Enfield extractor. Takes a bit of grinding off each side but will work fine. BTDT.




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I just bought a beautiful new looking extractor on ebay. I've only had to change 1 out over the years, so it's nice to have a spare handy...


Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.

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Originally Posted by bsa1917hunter
I just bought a beautiful new looking extractor on ebay. I've only had to change 1 out over the years, so it's nice to have a spare handy...


Any way to put a "ballpark" value on something like an extractor?

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A very good one will sell for about $40-$50.00. Sometimes they will sell for much more than that:

Pre 64 model 70 "A" extractor


Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.

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Your extractor looks like it has been altered a bit. Yes it is cosmetic as a minimum. If it works OK it is OK. I wish I knew you were thinking about selling that Lyman 48WJS. I would have made an offer that would have included a very good Extractor! Like I always say, you can get money anywhere; good parts are worth more than money!


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Holy cow!! Someone really wanted that extractor! It sold for $192.50 plus $4.99 Shipping! I may be be rich! Nope, I can get money anywhere; parts for parts!


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Damn, what in the hell!!!!! I had no idea that one would sell for that much... eek. The one I bought last month was just like that one... I think I paid $40.00 for it though..


Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.

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Originally Posted by sbrmike
Holy cow!! Someone really wanted that extractor! It sold for $192.50 plus $4.99 Shipping! I may be be rich! Nope, I can get money anywhere; parts for parts!


Originally Posted by bsa1917hunter
Damn, what in the hell!!!!! I had no idea that one would sell for that much... eek. The one I bought last month was just like that one... I think I paid $40.00 for it though..


You guys deserve an update. Funny thing eBay... This extractor had settled at $88 with 45 minutes left on the clock. I was waiting to jump at the end but got stuck in Yosemite with no internet access - forced to put a high cover in and leave and not watch it. I knew the bidding would take off, somebody really wanted that extractor I guess (as much as I did anyway). So/but I'm now the proud owner of a really expensive extractor, for my lowly shooter (hope it fits). The seller is also including a ring so that helps the pain a little. I've decided to keep my really nice Lyman 48 (or save for a trade anyway), at these rates it might be a chore to find another one down the road. smile

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Wow didn't see that coming!! The extractor will fit. Do NOT change the ring.

You did OK keeping that Lyman 48. They are not all that rare; they made a bunch of them. The StaySet knob version you have is a much better choice for a hunting rifle, but most people prefer the looks and/or ease of adjustment of the target knobs.

Your Lyman 6 is a simple sight as is the 6W; they are rare hence the high price. You showed what they cost new. Lyman 48's are a much more complicated piece of machinery and cost a good deal more when new, but the 6W will bring more than a nice 48 because of the rare factor.

Read and ignore my previous PM's as that is water under the bridge. I kind of thought you may have cancelled the listing to keep for yourself. That Lyman deserves a nice low comb 375 H&H or a high or low combed scoped up model in any caliber, perhaps one with a G&H sidemount.

I have your extractor's twin, but could have bought 4 for that money there. I should probably put this in a PM, but want to make sure you see this: If you think you need to replace that bolt for any other reason than excess headspace, you probably ought to sell that pre 64 and buy a new gun with a warranty. Vintage guns like pre 64 70's were bought to be used back in the day, and they were used. The cleaner unused or slightly used go for over $1,000.00 - well over $1,000.00

If the gun has good headspace that bolt is fine, not perfect, but will work just fine and last a long time.

Well those are my opinions anyway. And you know about opinions, they are like something else that everyone has and everybody else's stinks worse than mine. Good luck.


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Originally Posted by sbrmike
Wow didn't see that coming...


Sorry I'm so out of it Mike. As you suspected I never saw the PMs. I'll keep an eye on the mail from now on. That flashing envelope never caught my eye, used to a dialog box popping up, etc. I pulled the Lyman 48 because it had no immediate bids and I had decided to keep it. If/when, in future I decide to let it go I'll drop you a PM first if you like to see if you're still interested.

Thanks again for your experienced advice. I had thought it was better to leave the original ring in place and haven't messed with it. My ring does have a little wear burr in one spot, I'll throw up a closeup shot to get your opinion.

Thanks again - Gus

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That ring would have to be nearly cut in half for me to say change it. That is a "fit" part. The bolt may not work smoothly, possibly not at all with an ill fitting ring.


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