Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Bowhunting Busted Nock Bow Tuning

I'm just going to start one thread to show bows/specs that come in for work. Make it easier to keep up with. Feel free to post questions/comments on projects. Thanks guys.

Looking forward to it.

UPS tracking shows my Busted Knock tuned Switchback arrives tomorrow. I'm looking forward to it. Like I said in the Project Switchback thread, Harlon has been great to work with. He is an excellent communicator & keeps you up to speed thru the whole process.

Elite Synergy. This one belongs to Ranger1's son. Specs are 60.4#. 27 5/8 DL. Strict9 Strings in buckskin/black.












Fletched/bareshaft

Mathews DXT. This one belongs to member twintips16. Strict9 Strings in Flo grn/silver with blk pinstripe.






Bareshaft/fletched @20 yds.
Will post specs tomorrow.

Specs on twintips16's DXT are 70.6# pk wt. 28 5/8" DL.

Very nice.

The boy finally got time to get out and shoot that Synergy. Unreal how perfect the arrow flight is! I highly recommend having 280Ackleyrized tune your bow. I'll be sending another bow off to him shortly.

Just got my DXT in the mail today. I won't get a chance to shoot it til this weekend though. I'm looking forward to it after hearing all the great things.

Twintips, i almost traded sight mounts with you lol. Would have kept my slider mount if it had been 3rd axis adjustable

Be prepared to buy some more arrows and/or replace you vanes, "arrow slap" is about to become a common event on your target.

He does a great job of tuning.

Mathews Z7. Belongs to member tlfw. Mountainberry/white with black pinstripe and Mountainberry serving Center Circle Strings. 65.8#/30.25" DL.











Fletched/bareshaft @20 yds

Mathews Creed. Belongs to 24hcf member scorpion. DW 70.7#. Holding wt 14.45#. DL 28.0"










Bareshaft/ fletched @20 yds

Great looking work !

Pictures don't do his work justice...Thanks Harlon!

Thank you guys

Athens Convixtion LH. This one belongs to campfire trf215. 27 9/16", 61.2#. Flo grn/grey with blk pin Hogwire Strings.











Fletched/bareshaft @20 yds

I heard my third arrow was a "flier". Thanks for the tuneup, can't wait to shoot the bow.

It had a mind of its own. If I find it, I'll send it to you. Enjoyed the Athens. Quality bow. Nice draw cycle. Fast. No vibe. And my first experience with the PNP. Definitely a great product

Tell me about the fob, how do they differ from vanes and feathers flight wise?

All the details are here http://www.starrflight.com/. But with me my arrows fly a bit better especially in the wind. It takes about five seconds to put one on so no more downtime fletching/refletching. The only negatives I can see are fobs can get torn up if you are stacking arrows on a target but you have the same problem with fletching. And they look different but that doesn't really bother me.

On a pass through, the FOB is pulled out of the arrow with the nock, and marks the point of impact.

I didn't see much difference with them, if the bow was tuned right, the steering gear didn't make a noticable difference for me. I didn't like the nock being pulled out, it tended to loosen the nock in the shaft over time.

You are somewhat limited on your arrow rest options, and need a large opening for a containment rest for the FOB to pass through.

Thanks for the fob info.

I don't think they are a bad idea, you just have to approach the investment with both eyes open, and acknowledge the requirements/limits on the system.

What the heck is that thing on the back end? Its gotta whistle in flight. At least I'd think so. Unless the cage around the outside kills some of that noise like a flat metal strip will help with prop noise on an airboat.

But that thing just looks like noise to me.

It does make noise, but I was told to STFU when I raised the comment a couple years ago on here. Mine were the loudest of the arrows I was shooting at the time.

It's noisy, but not much more than the NAP Twisters or Speed fletches.

since an arrow is slower than speed of sound, no matter if 180 or 320....

Noise is always an issue in flight.

Not that I know chit or aything, but one should really try to limit flight noise to as little as possible.

Just go take an arrow with feathers(if ya'll know what those are... LOL) and one with vanes,and have someone shoot em at a target whiel you are next to the target behind a tree or such...

Noise is NEVER a good thign with archery.

But then lots think nothing matters and they can shoot 50 yard deer all day long with no problems.

That outfit just HAS to make wind noise.

Do all you can to be quiet and stay hidden, and then launch a slow noisemaker at an animal... makes no sense.

No noise on my bow.

I shot the fob on trf215 arrow and noticed no noise. Least nothing that would strike me as extra loud or out of the ordinary

Do you stand by the target and let someone else shoot?

Noise sound is relative, what you hear at the bow can be somewhat of little matter, its what is hear downrange.

Liek the huge difference between feathers and vanes that you don't hear folks talk of either.

By doing a downrange test, we ended up having to scotch tape the vents on some old broadheads... you NEVER heard a thing from the bow side, but boy down range they'd be noisy enough to make me flinch.

Of course if your deer don't move and duck like ours do it may not matter.

Back when I was younger, I had an old Pearson bow that was so slow I could do my own BH noise test. Shoot, set the bow down, run to the target and then listen to the arrow when it arrived. It's a little harder to do now with the modern setups.

Anyone try the FOB by actually listening downrange?

Mathews Switchback. Belongs to 24hcf member NE1022. 70.3#, 29.25" DL. Red/grey with blk pinstripe Hogwire Strings. GT Velocity Pros in.300 spine with 125 tips.










Fletched/bareshaft at 20yds

USMC2602 Diamond Stud. 61.2#, Flo grn / med brown with blk pinstripe Hogwire Strings. GT Velocity Pros by SouthShore Archery Supply.








Bareshaft / fletched @20 yds

Looks great, Harlon, can't wait to try it out!

Kurt

Lots of good stuff with bare and fletched but nothing with broad heads. I developed the compound broad head tuning system long, long ago, tried to get published, rejected to find Easton is using my method. I can get a broad head to hit the exact same spot as bare or fletched in minutes. I can adjust for head weight or style, even the arrow spine in minutes.
You have to show a broad head next to a bare or fletched field point. I shot bare shafts into the bullseye at 60 yards long ago. Can make a broad head hit the same as a field point at any range.
Bow noise is a problem and high frequency is the worst, stuff you don't hear. Even time of day affects that with morning deer easier then evenings.
Want to see if a bow works on deer, shoot at a squirrel on the ground. If he is 20 yards and 15' up a tree barking at you before the arrow hits, forget deer.
I don't care if you have over 300 fps, you can't beat sound. It is not arrow noise, it is the bow and many will scare heck out of deer. Why do you think bows have all that rubber stuff on them?
Reason for expandable heads today, make like a field point but can you make a Razor head or snuffer work?
Expanding heads need more power and heavier arrows.
Light arrows will never be best. I have shot three deer with revolvers to find 6" of arrow healed inside. Almost cut myself on them. Arrows in the lungs. I bet animal loss has gone way up since toothpicks are shot.

I shot every day long ago, won hundreds of trophies, shot 292 out of 300 field "Ohio score" with a Wing bow. Belonged to Eight Ball Archers and shot demonstrations at the Cleveland Sportsman shows. Well over 200 bow kills. Hitting deer got problematic with compounds, still prefer a long bow or recurve. Best was the Wing Presentation II. Bear was junk after they stopped the good recurves, compounds were junk. Jennings broke fast. Allen bows were junk. I loved Wing bows. Hoyt was good.
No, I can't compete with new stuff where bows only need one sight pin. Back then you had to estimate distance to the yard. But we were good and killed. The average was 15 years for an archer to kill a deer but I got three the first season. Ohio, MI and PA. Chipmunks, squirrels and woodchucks piled up. Did not know what a release was. Went to one a while back to find it increases bow noise. I got accurate to only find deer don't like it. Disgusting to have a deer get out of the way at 10 yards when you can not scare a deer with a longbow at all.
I can't pull my bows anymore so went to a great long bow, made for me by my friend at Bama Bows. Wood arrow and Snuffer, killed a deer right off.

Its time to give a little review of Busted Nock Bow tuning.

I sent my bow to Harlon after my buddy blew it up dry firing it. I had new strings put on it and the full tune done as well as install the new cam.

I got it back and it shot better then before. I noticed that my groups shrunk a bit and arrows were hitting straighter to the target.

Since that time i have shot my bow all the way out to 100 yards proving out my slider and every day i am even more happier with it.

Today i switched to broad heads and started shooting them for up and coming Montana opener. I shoot slick trick 100's and before i always had to adjust a bit to get the point of impact to line up with my pins.

Well today i was able to shoot back and forth between both BH's and Feild Points.

Point of impact was the same. I even shot one of each at 60 yards and they hit an inch differnt.

I want to thank Harlon for working with me as I am sure i was a pain in the arss to deal with. But he awnsered all my questions and even followed up with me a couple months after to make sure i was still satisfied. He and his service provided were great and i will be sending my next bow to him with out a doubt.

Thanks Harlon for everything!!

Here was my very first shot tonight into a brand new block at 60 yards. I am ready to go.

(block was turned a bit and makes it look like the arrows arnt hitting straight, but trust me they are)

Glad you are happy with it.

bfrshooter, there is a "method to the madness" with what I do. And a reason it works. Tune for bareshaft/fletched to same POI @ 20yds, and run fixed blade heads of same weight with no adjustments. Why? Because the arrow is leaving the bow perfectly and no assistance is needed from the fletchings. So when the broadhead is screwed on the fletchings don't have to work very hard to correct flight. It's been tested with fixed heads, mech heads, even the large cut 2 blade heads. It does require a properly spined arrow. And it requires pretty darn decent form. Last year my hunting bow would stack fp, bareshaft, slick trick, and grave digger all in same spot with no adjustments needed. And that's after my normal fletched / bareshaft tune. Tune the bow properly and the broadheads will fly

Can't get my info here but if you E mail me I will send it to you. jameswbrmaol.com.
No way to make broad heads to hit the same place as a bare arrow without more tuning. More tuning needed to even get to a field point, fletched arrow.

It is easy to get any broad head to impact the same spot as a field point at any range. Unless the spine is way off, very common today. It is why you see heads so small they will not kill right.

Things are not that simple. Can you go to a 150 gr snuffer or change arrow size because the bow is too strong? Can you change broad heads?
I sent you an E mail with what I found. Hope you get it all. Paper tune, then tune for a broad head, But no broad head will go to a bare shaft and no broad head will go to a field point unless you do what I do. I make any broad head go to the field point.
Everything you stick on the end of an arrow will alter where it hits.
I hope you can make use of the stuff, Easton stole it. I made the mistake of sending it out and some found I was right and took it.
Nobody has ever made a revolver shoot like I do or a ML either. Or a broad head from a bow. Hard work and many years.

Been doing what I do for quite some time. It works. Can get broadheads and fp to same poi all the way out to 60. There's no magic or voodoo to it. There are some broadheads that don't play by the rules. But for the most part..properly tuned bow and shooter, properly spined arrow, and a broadhead that will spin true, will get the desired results. Want to change arrow setup? Retune. Thats why when I tune, I have the arrow/point weight setup run through OT2. I know before I ever start if the arrow combo will work.

Amazing...

Nobody has shot more sub 1" groups at 100 with out of box revolvers as I have. Not me but what it takes, have friends out shoot me now. same as archery. you can't shoot all weight broad heads to the same place without a tune. The difference between a bare shaft with a target point is so far off a broad head you are a fool if you believe it. Ever try a broad head with no fletch? I did at 40 yards and hit the bull once, the next went over the county. Seen it in the sky over 400 yards and still going. can't be done, sorry.

did you get what I sent and can you dispute it>

Take your arrogance elsewhere and quit crapping on a guys thread.

Do not want to learn is common. I also developed the lighted bow sight. It is not arrogance, it is hard work.
You use expandable heads to duplicate a field point but try a real broad head. What are those 5/8" heads? Not legal in many states but you can't shoot anything else.
Ignorance is rampant and you show yours well.

Maybe you should look at what 280 said, if it does not shoot right, retune. I gave him info to retune. The man understands and is not stupid. He knows each head is not the same.
Want to bet he will see some truth in it? He did not say I am wrong so I depend on ethics. Hard to find anymore. Might make him better while he uses what I said. Just like gun writers use what I taught them here. Nobody has ever shot more under 1" groups at 100 yards with out of box revolvers as I have. It is loading just like tuning arrows.
Sorry Greg, come here and I will change heads on your arrows to see a huge laugh when you try to hit anything.
I also see that 280 admits the wrong spine will not work. Very strange.

And how is it you know this to be true? Why not share your bow tuning technique with the rest of us?

He shared. I'll pass

Just E mail me at jameswbrmaol.com and it is yours. You can find it at the Easton site too. All it takes is the Allen wrench on the limbs.

Why? Was I wrong?

Dude, I have MY methods that I use and they work. Anyone with any sense knows that when it comes to arrows, weight added up front serves to weaken dynamic spine. Weight added to the rear serves to stiffen it. Length added weakens spine. Length taken away stiffens. I tune a bow to a SPECIFIC arrow spine, length, point weight etc. If owner changes anything, it's on them. I can't guarantee arrow flight with those changes. I didn't read all the stuff you sent mainly because I haven't had time. I use OT2 to run arrow set ups. And within the point weight tuned for, pick your broadhead. With exception of a few that just don't play by the rules, they will go to same POI. That covers everything from mech heads, to slick trick, to muzzy, to German kinetics, to magnus. Now please, if you wish to discuss your tuning methods, start your own thread. There's a button for that. This one is MINE.

Any one with brains knows if you change arrow length, spine, head weight or head length, you need to change spine or bow weight.
I CAN shoot a range of spines from one weight bow but will be damned if I will tell you how.

Seems as if you follow me and what I found. Why do you dispute? You tune to ONE thing while I can allow the change for another in minutes. You admit one spine and one head so a guy that makes a change he is on his own. I make it easy for the guy to change. You fix him at one thing only. If he varies from what you did, he is lost.
You did not have time to read what I sent you is a stupid mistake.

How about this...this is MY thread. It is a place to showcase what I do for MY customers. All of whom contacted me by their own free will. It is a place to also discuss things. But do not come in here all butt hurt because someone else rejected/stole or whatever the case YOUR ideas, and try force them on someone else. I'm sure your methods work. But start a thread about them and let's discuss it there.

Mathews Z7 Extreme sent to me by AH64GUY.







Fletched / bareshaft @20 yds

FWIW,

This is the third bow I've sent to "Busted Nock", this one was a buddy's bow, and he's out slapping shafts already.

Couldn't be happier with everything Harlon has done to my bows, and the quality of the strings he installed have been outstanding as well. No stretch, no peep rotation, and solid servings on all.

If I don't hit what I'm shooting at...it won't be the fault of the bow.

Agree 100%. Finally got to shoot my bow this weekend after receiving back from Harlon. Could not believe the difference, and learned real quickly that if I shoot for groups under 40 yards, I'll ruin these new arrows in a hurry!

Not only is his work first class, but his communications are great as well. Whether through PM, email, or telephone, he's always available to answer any questions and make sure you get exactly what you're after. Would gladly do business with him again.

Super easy. If your arrow hit to the right of the spot, reduce the bow weight one or two pounds. Continue reducing weight until you are in line vertically with the spot. In the case of the shaft hitting to the left, increase bow weight a small amount at a time. Now is the time to fine tune. How? It's easy, just back up to 30 yards. Make small corrections to the weight to keep the arrow in the spot. Now go to 40, then 50, or as I said, as far as you have pins for. Your elevation may be off at some ranges due both to changes in the nocking point and the fact that you are shooting a different point then the field point. Once your arrows are in a line vertical with the target at all ranges, you can adjust the sights up or down to get back in a horizontal line. At the longer ranges, broadheads may tend to strike a small amount lower then field points. You should not need to move the sights in or out at all.
One situation that is very hard to understand occurs if the arrow hits the spot on the first shot, but fishtails, or porpoises or both, all the way down. This means you are very close but will not know what adjustment to turn first. Do not make any trial and error adjustments at any point. The only way out of this is to deliberately misadjust your bow weight up or down three or four pounds and then start your adjustments as described above.
If you find yourself at the upper or lower limits of your bow during tuning because of the arrow you chose, there is still hope. Proceed by changing the weight of your broad head. If you hit to the right, reduce the weight of the head either by changing to a lighter one or by removing one blade at a time. No, this will not make it fly funny. Weigh the head once it shoots right and buy some that are close to this weight. Add weight if you are shooting to the left. If the arrows hit to the right, they can also be shortened small amounts at a time. One-quarter inch at a time is about right. Just remember that you cannot put it back.
Sound easy? It is. Once learned, it will take five to ten minutes to tune for broadheads after the field points are tuned and sighted in. But say you shot a deer this year and the broad head did not perform to your expectations-or even that it broke! And say you bought some heads that look good but they weigh 20 grains more. Drag out the straw and adjust the weight to get back in the spot. What's that? You didn't have time to practice this year and cannot draw the bow? Pick up those lighter arrows you have stashed in the closet and do the same thing. I will also bet your sight settings remain the same, although it may take a slight up or down adjustment at the longer ranges. If it does, mark your sight so you can return to the original setting if you go back to using your heavier arrows. Record how many turns it takes on the weight screws in a book, don't rely on your memory. This way you will be able to change between a variety of heads and arrows at will, just using your Allen wrench. Tape a piece of paper on the bow, with the amount of turns needed for each combination printed on it.

Her is the total. BROADHEAD TUNING THE EASY WAY

Back in the days when the only bows were longbow or recurve, getting a broadhead to shoot straight was a real pain. Sometimes it would take all summer. We used all sorts of tricks such as unwinding or winding up the string, building out the rest, adding brush buttons to slow the bow, weighting points and on and on. It was easy to watch arrow flight but very hard to make it go where intended. The most difficult to tune was the recurve as it had more speed then the longbow. With sights, the small misalignment of the point of impact in relation to the direction the arrow was pointing could be adjusted for. However, this was not good if the bow was shot bare bow. For this, the tune had to be perfect. I think the reason I got in so much practice was because my string wore out or a limb broke and I had to start over-and over- and over. Almost my entire target shooting back then involved some tweaking of arrow flight. My Wing Presentation 2 shot so good that I could shoot a bare shaft into the bull�s eye at 40 yards. One day I tried it with a broadhead. It went into the center also. Several days later, I tried to duplicate the feat. My arrow climbed to 100 feet, made a sharp left turn and all I seen was a flicker in the sun as my arrow vanished over the woods about 300 yards away. I was in a safe area, but you should be aware of the extreme danger involved fooling with bare shafts.
Then along came a magic plunger called a panic button. It had so many adjustments that it took all summer to get right. Everybody said it would not work, but it did. The original had about five adjustments. That thing drove me crazy. I must have made an adjustment on it every day for a month. The biggest problem that made it a chore to adjust was that bows were not center shot. I came to discover that any and all adjustments on the original and the simple ones we now have, had very little actual effect on arrow flight. The most important thing they do is to add some forgiveness to the release and shooting form. I have learned to set it and forget it. Adjust the rest of the bow around the plunger.
Then one day I became the proud owner of a Jennings compound and everything changed. Now I had weight adjustments. The only problem was the bow still was not center shot. The speed seemed unreal and this was the start of more trouble. Without center shot, the arrow pointed away from the bow too far. Add the tremendous thrust of the compound and it was extremely hard to get a broadhead tipped arrow to straighten and fly true without some wind planeing. Broadheads at the time were not aerodynamic and had a mind of their own. Evolution started with the Wasp. It flew well but was weak, had very thin blades and would break up on ribs. Most of these old heads would break or bend in an animal. I still have one called the spike. It looks like a rocket. Stories came back about these heads coming apart on the ribs of Elk. I also have one called the Mohawk Scissor Head made by Hal Rothgery, an old friend from Elyria Ohio. When this one opened properly, it would almost cut a deer in half. When it failed it was catastrophic. This head had a plastic ferrule and plastics back then were very poor and brittle. The original Bear Razorhead that worked so well with stick bows would roll up their tips under the force of compounds. Now we have so many to choose from that everyone will have one or two favorites. Before we go into the real tuning, I have to mention that when a bow is properly tuned with my method, any broadhead will fly straight.
Compound bows have evolved to the point where broken bows are rare. They are faster now and have more adjustments. But this put another fly in the ointment. It is very hard to watch an arrow in flight. When a broadhead took off for parts unknown, just what did you turn first? As some of you remember, we used a form of paper tuning in the old days. We would shoot at a bale at shoulder height from six feet and read the angle of the shaft. This is still the proper method to start with but add a sheet of paper to shoot through at six feet. Most every bow manufacturer includes paper-tuning instructions with their new bows. That helped and made the field points shoot good, but I would use the whole summer to get my bow tuned for blades. God help me if the string broke too close to deer season. From the various articles I have read lately, in archery magazines, tuning broadheads is still a mystery. Do this; if this doesn't work; try that; turn this in; turn this out; change springs; raise this; raise that and if it gets worse lower it. I kept wishing that someone could figure out a really effective way to shoot these stupid arrows with the wings on the wrong end. After 43 years, it finally occurred to me how to do just that.
The most important part in the whole process is that you must be sure to do all the basics. Everything must be on the bow before starting. The quiver, stabilizer, sling, silencers, moleskin and arrows need to be in the quiver. Nocks and heads (start straight, but you will learn something about this later.) must be perfectly aligned with the shaft and the shafts have to be straight. Check the timing of your eccentrics to see or feel if they roll over evenly. Make sure there are no worn parts on the bow. Make sure there are no broken strands in the string. And make sure the clothing you are wearing does not interfere with the string. If your bow is brand new, just tune it.
It is best to use a field point just a little heavier then your broadhead, say 10 grains or so. If you don't have them, that's fine. The thing to remember is that a broadhead makes the shaft act longer or weaker then field points do. Start with the shaft on center, right behind the string. I find this is best, but it is okay for a finger shooter to go as far as 1/8� left of center for a right hand bow. I have less trouble right on center. Make sure to allow for the offset of the cams. If you are using a plunger, the stronger your bow is, the stiffer the spring should be. If you can shoot your bow at maximum poundage and you have arrows spined for this, the spring should be strong. If you reduce the spring tension, the same arrow can be shot at a slightly reduced weight, but speed will be reduced a small amount. Don't be too fussy as it is not real important unless you want to shoot your bow at a certain weight. My suggestion is to just use the spring you think is right, and tune with the weight screws. If you find that perfect flight can only be obtained by increasing the bow weight over maximum weight for the bow, or several pounds more then you can handle, start over with the spring tension reduced or a lighter one installed.
Paper-tune your bow with field points first. There are many helpful books out today that will help you do this and as I stated, most bow manufacturers even include instructions with their new bows. I have been paper tuning and shooting at six feet into bales to watch arrow entry for at least 30 years. I used a bare shaft many times. I was even able to shoot a bare shaft 60 yards to the spot with my target bow. I must again caution against using a bare shaft with a compound bow. It is dangerous and at the very least, can break arrows, requires an absolutely perfect release and changes the weight and balance of the arrow. Try to get that nice little hole in the paper with the vanes following the shaft through. You may find that there is a problem with arrow, or fletch contact with the riser or rest. In my experience, it is because you are using the wrong arrow for your bow or you are using bad shooting form. Do the best job on this phase that you can. Try shooting through the paper at several distances. Adjust the nocking point and bow weight to get that clean hole. Personally I find moving the plunger in and out is of little value. I prefer to shoot right on center. Remember that once the bow is paper tuned with field points, you do not fool with the plunger any more! Once you are satisfied it is time to move on to the next step. A word on plungers is in order here. Because I shoot with my fingers, I have always used a plunger with a wire flipper. The new breed of bows with full cut center shot is very hard to match these two items up on. PSE made a great flipper, but discontinued it. New Archery Products has solved that problem nicely by installing the wire right on the plunger. I have been using the PlungerRest since its introduction and have been almost completely satisfied. The only problem I have had with them is on some of my older bows that are not cut with enough center shot. The plastic end with the wire is thick. It can't be adjusted too close to the riser because plunger action is retarded. I do hope this will be corrected, so I can use them on all of my bows. They are the best idea to come along so far. A bow tuned with this rest will be set at a higher weight then one tuned with a regular plunger and flipper. I had to remove one from a bow as I exceeded maximum weight. No, I can�t answer why. New Archery Products informed me that when an arrow is shot across the plunger, it only moves .030�. I do not believe this because my bows shoot completely different with a plunger with more movement even if I set the spring tension to the same weight.
The next step is to sight in your bow with the field points. Do a good job, all the way back as far as you have pins for. Shoot from ten to forty yards. If you can go all the way to sixty yards, do so. Do not neglect this step; it is vital. Broadhead tuning depends on these settings. You will need two tight straw bales for the broadhead target. Foam bounces around too much, and many of those little foam ones are too small. Put one bale on the ground with another about three feet behind it to catch any pass though. Place a one-or two-inch target in the center of the bale. Do not use a large paper target. The best distance for the first shot is 20 yards. Shoot the broad head. It went somewhere other then the spot, didn't it? DO NOT ADJUST YOUR SIGHTS. This is the same process as paper tuning, but you will adjust only the bow weight and the nocking point to move the broad head into the little piece of paper. And this, my friends, is the secret. Adjust the bow to make the broadheads hit the same spot as the field points.
If the arrow dives to the lower part of the bale with the nock high, lower your nocking point. If it hits high, with the nock low, raise your nocking point. Get your arrow right in a line horizontal with the center of the target. Once the nocking point is set like this, it should not need to be touched again. As distance is increased, the arrow may hit a little higher or lower then it did with field points. Ignore this unless you detect a definite flip to the tail of the arrow.
If your arrow hit to the right of the spot, reduce the bow weight one or two pounds. Continue reducing weight until you are in line vertically with the spot. In the case of the shaft hitting to the left, increase bow weight a small amount at a time. Now is the time to fine tune. How? It's easy, just back up to 30 yards. Make small corrections to the weight to keep the arrow in the spot. Now go to 40, then 50, or as I said, as far as you have pins for. Your elevation may be off at some ranges due both to changes in the nocking point and the fact that you are shooting a different point then the field point. Once your arrows are in a line vertical with the target at all ranges, you can adjust the sights up or down to get back in a horizontal line. At the longer ranges, broadheads may tend to strike a small amount lower then field points. You should not need to move the sights in or out at all.
One situation that is very hard to understand occurs if the arrow hits the spot on the first shot, but fishtails, or porpoises or both, all the way down. This means you are very close but will not know what adjustment to turn first. Do not make any trial and error adjustments at any point. The only way out of this is to deliberately misadjust your bow weight up or down three or four pounds and then start your adjustments as described above.
If you find yourself at the upper or lower limits of your bow during tuning because of the arrow you chose, there is still hope. Proceed by changing the weight of your broad head. If you hit to the right, reduce the weight of the head either by changing to a lighter one or by removing one blade at a time. No, this will not make it fly funny. Weigh the head once it shoots right and buy some that are close to this weight. Add weight if you are shooting to the left. If the arrows hit to the right, they can also be shortened small amounts at a time. One-quarter inch at a time is about right. Just remember that you cannot put it back.
Sound easy? It is. Once learned, it will take five to ten minutes to tune for broadheads after the field points are tuned and sighted in. But say you shot a deer this year and the broad head did not perform to your expectations-or even that it broke! And say you bought some heads that look good but they weigh 20 grains more. Drag out the straw and adjust the weight to get back in the spot. What's that? You didn't have time to practice this year and cannot draw the bow? Pick up those lighter arrows you have stashed in the closet and do the same thing. I will also bet your sight settings remain the same, although it may take a slight up or down adjustment at the longer ranges. If it does, mark your sight so you can return to the original setting if you go back to using your heavier arrows. Record how many turns it takes on the weight screws in a book, don't rely on your memory. This way you will be able to change between a variety of heads and arrows at will, just using your Allen wrench. Tape a piece of paper on the bow, with the amount of turns needed for each combination printed on it.
I shoot a Browning Mirage set at 80#. At this weight I shoot 30" 2419 shafts. I also use 29.25" 2317 shafts at 76# and 30" 2317's at 72#. It works out to one turn down for the one arrow, another half turn down for the other. There is only a four fps difference between them and I use the same sight settings. The velocity (in order I have the arrows listed) is 234 fps, 237 fps and 233 fps. I have taken many deer with this bow and have yet to see the arrow fly or hit the deer. I have also done the so-called "impossible" with this bow. I drew the bow, aimed, and shot three deer, without them moving, while they were looking at me. I presently use three different broad heads of the same weight interchangeably. I have used this same madness with a P.S.E. and Golden Eagle. The amazing part of all of this is all it takes is an Allen wrench. By the way, I shoot with my fingers and a tab. I just never cared for the release. According to my chronograph I only gain one fps with the release anyway. In some of the illustrations you will see a group that is not in the center of the spot. This was due to the first arrow being shot with the sight off of the target, so I just shot the rest with the same sight picture. I only had one roll of film.
Try my method to take the guesswork out of tuning. You can buy a new bow in mid-season and hunt with it the next day. I can shoot any broad head on the market, without having it wind plane, unless the blade area exceeds the fletch area. You should be able to shoot any combination of arrow, out of sight, without a wobble. The only fiddling you have to do is the paper tuning.

Picture One: shows a group shot with field points after paper tuning. All groups shot at 20 yards.
Picture Two: arrow one is the first broad head shot showing a high nocking point and the bow too strong. Arrow two had the nocking point moved too low. Arrow three is after the nocking point has been adjusted properly. Arrow four is after a small bow weight reduction. Arrow five is after the bow weight was turned down too much. Arrow six shows point of impact after bow weight was turned up one-quarter turn.
Picture Three: this group shot using three different broad heads of the same weight. A Muzzy, a Satellite Titan and a Thunderhead.
Picture Four: the right arrow has a 142 gr. Razorback. Left arrow is a 100 gr. Thunderhead. Center arrow is a 125 gr. Titan. Think how easy it would be to get the light one and the heavy one in the spot.
Picture Five: a field point group shot after broad head tuning. Notice they group better but the elevation is different due to changes in the nocking point. We are not hunting with them anyway.
Picture Six: three shots with three different size arrows. There is a 30" 2419 at 79#, a 29.25" 2317 at 76# and a 30" 2317 at 72#. Arrow weights are 647.2, 601.6 and 599.5 gr. respectively. The long 2317's are lighter then the short one due to lighter vanes.
Some people want the field point to hit the exact same point as the broad- head. They say, "Well, it weighs the same!" With my simple method of tuning, making the broadhead go where the field point hits, makes this a reality. Just remember to think backwards, don�t try to make the field points go to the broadheads. An offshoot is that field points will now group tighter then ever.
One other point I wish to make is that if you just shoot 3D with your bow, tune for broadheads because your field points will group much tighter. I think you will be amazed.
Remember the mention I made about straight heads. I heard that the broadheads had to be perfectly straight. There are even alignment jigs on the market. One of my friends goes so far as to align a blade straight up when his arrow is nocked on the string. He heats and reheats so often, he has ruined the temper of the end of the shaft. I will now crash that theory to bits. I chucked an insert and filed it down until it was much smaller then the inside diameter of the shaft. With a broadhead on it, I forced it sideways while hot. Talk about crooked. I was prepared for the worst. I just knew I would lose that arrow, or break it. Going crooked from an 82# bow would be devastating. I was totally amazed when the arrow hit the one inch piece of paper at 20 yards over and over. I switched heads with the same result. This has proven to me that a properly tuned arrow will not allow the broadhead to steer it.
The nock should be glued on as straight as you can get them. Then again, this is another thing I will try to disprove. I shot and won many matches with the nocks just twisted on with no glue. If they banged together at the target, the nocks would fall off. I just picked them up and twisted them back on. The early plastic vanes were called Max-Flight and were hard. I even shot many matches with the cock vane in toward the bow. I used to have everyone tell me they were on the string wrong, I would laugh and say, �I know it!� After each shoot I had to refletch all of my arrows because the vanes would break when one arrow bumped another in the target. The best vane on the market today is the Arizona Plasti-Fletch. All the other makes dry out and crumble when they get old. They are also very stiff when new and if the do contact the bow, they tend to shift the arrow. The Arizona vane acts more like feathers. I have arrows fletched with these that are eight years old and feel like new. If they get rippled in a target, they can be put back in shape with a hair dryer.

Yawn (sigh), next.

Instead of high jacking this topic, why don't you go start your very own post about your tuning experience as a bowyer?

This post is about a service provided by a member here in good standing, and his customers experience before, during, and AFTER the sale.

Take it as it is, I was hoping to aid his tuning. Maybe you can find something wrong. Looks like bows are machine shot.
I feel a Taffin moment.

Again,

Start your own post about your tuning experience, and have the common courtesy to leave this one to the topic intended.

Look dude, I have attempted to be as professional as I know how. But your blatant disregard for common courtesy has put that to rest. I do not want nor need your help. If you would actually look there are some threads actually devoted to discussing tuning methods. And all the BS you wasted time hijacking this thread with has already been discussed. I'm sorry you are all butt hurt over other companies rejecting/stealing your "ideas", but seeing how you present them I can understand why. So, please, start your own thread.

Got a nasty PM from 280. he is out of sorts that I tell you how to tune. He is afraid to lose money. He cussed at me. Darn sorry I let anyone tune a bow without giving you money. I have aided hundreds to tune FREE.
He wants me to start a post of my own because I hurt him with truth. Too stinking bad. suck it up! You are wrong.

bfr-
Why don't you stick to the handgun forum.

Are you installing new strings for folks here?
Seems everyone that's had 280 do work has been tickled pink with his services.

Pardon me, but the info was here before you showed up.
http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/8035785/Bow_tuning_how_to#Post8035785

Oh yes, I see it. You need these. Nut swingers. It really hurts you when I post free stuff and some will do it them self. I hope you F***$@@@ go broke. You lie to suck money.
Damned funny that Easton uses my method. Mine was copyrighted but it takes money to win. I think I sunk you and you deserve it. I tried to give you info but you reject it because you think you are too smart and need money. I hope you fail.
I hurt you big time. but you will still have swingers. just like Democrats, some want the Kool Aid.
you will NEVER prove me wrong.

Stand up guy. I never "rejected" or disputed any thing he offered. Merely stated this was my thread and to take his stuff and start a thread of his own. Some people. SMDH

click on his name, then "view profile", then "ignore this user"

A legend in his own mind!

Starting to think this guy is BS long lost brother

Jim, taking a big dump in yet another unrelated thread. When will you learn, you silly old man? Just go back to WDIL where your one and only fan club resides. It's obvious that no one here has the patience for your bullshit. Tell Jay I said hello.

I really thought there were some smart people but see it is not true and you show your colors once again. What are you here for, you know nothing about archery?

280 has removed himself from PM's to me after I sent him more. Real chicken to see truth.

This must be one your "famous" 100 yard shots?

I posted that on other sites myself, AR picture. Made me laugh. Walk up to tame animals and shoot one. Real hunter. If you are on AR, it shows you swing also. Same as Single Action site. Swingers on Taffin.
Craig, Jay is 1000 times the man you will ever be. You are a gnat that dodges my hand.

Jim, don't pretend to know anything about me. I've dabbled in archery on and off for years but my knowledge on this subject is irrelevant. The point is that you interject yourself, once again, into someone else's discussion deriding their work while espousing your own. Asserting yourself, once again, as a self proclaimed expert whose tips & techniques have been stolen. Get a life dude. Nobody's buying it and no one is jumping to your defense.

No, Jay is pure inbred white trash who stays at home playing on his website, while his wife works to support him. His life is in the toilet and his insignificant website is your only safe bastion. You're just a bitter old man trying desperately to be relevant yet failing miserably.



No, because Jim's never shot anything bigger than West Virginia whitetail.

Tracking Craig, he's shown his hand here in spades, and the rest of his photos show that pretty clearly.

Thanks for coming up from the Handgun thread and keeping a watch on him.

Sadly, he's made a mess of a good members post for his own self-serving needs.

Well guys, this is the final chapter of this thread. And ironically it ends with the very first campfire member I tried to get to let me tune his bow. Just finished restringing/tuning JJ Hack's Mathews SBXT. Solid red Hogwire Strings with black serving. DW 63.4#. Measured DL 28 9/16. I'll post up pics shortly.

No matter what your new venture is called.....I couldn't be happier with the work you've done for me. I'm sure we'll do business again, best of luck.

Kurt