Home Forums Reloading Big Game Rifles Hate to Ask but Quickload Norma 217 in 30-378

I have a 30-378. Norma manual shows SAME POWDER CHARGE for min max loads with both 165gr and 180gr (110.0gr 180gr and 113.5gr 165gr).

I contacted Norma re: same min, max powder charge with following response

"Yes we have same loads. if we go down on powder what is normal, barrel time be longer and pressure went up.

So it is for safety. Don�t load different than manual is saying"



Problem I have is that both Norma "book loads" (using 168gr Tipped TSX and 180gr Nosler Partition) give sticky bolt lift (for width of ejector cut -- then normal for balance of bolt lift and extraction).

Loads with H50BMG and both of above bullets at 3,430 and 3,230 exhibit normal bolt lift/extraction

Would appreciate quickload ref info.

Thanks,

Paul

Cartridge : .30-378 Weath. Mag.
Bullet : .308, 168, Barnes 'TTSX'BT 30878
Useable Case Capaci: 120.538 grain H2O = 7.826 cm�
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.655 inch = 92.84 mm
Barrel Length : 24.0 inch = 609.6 mm
Powder : Norma 217

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-20.0 80 88.00 2584 2490 30235 13788 93.5 1.629
-18.0 82 90.20 2653 2625 32422 14233 94.9 1.591
-16.0 84 92.40 2722 2764 34785 14650 96.1 1.552
-14.0 86 94.60 2792 2908 37301 15037 97.2 1.515
-12.0 88 96.80 2862 3055 39963 15390 98.1 1.478
-10.0 90 99.00 2931 3205 42794 15706 98.9 1.442
-08.0 92 101.20 3000 3358 45817 15981 99.4 1.401
-06.0 94 103.40 3069 3514 49046 16214 99.8 1.356
-04.0 97 105.60 3137 3672 52495 16401 100.0 1.312
-02.0 99 107.80 3205 3831 56180 16547 100.0 1.270 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 101 110.00 3271 3992 60119 16684 100.0 1.230 ! Near Maximum !
+02.0 103 112.20 3337 4155 64329 16817 100.0 1.191 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0 105 114.40 3402 4318 68834 16944 100.0 1.154 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+06.0 107 116.60 3467 4484 73657 17066 100.0 1.118 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+08.0 109 118.80 3531 4651 78824 17182 100.0 1.083 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+10.0 111 121.00 3595 4820 84365 17293 100.0 1.050 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by � 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 101 110.00 3423 4372 73916 16073 100.0 1.120 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 101 110.00 3041 3449 46492 16980 97.

Don't know if this is what you are looking for. More info would be helpful

[CODE]Cartridge : .30-378 Weath. Mag.
Bullet : .308, 168, Barnes 'TTSX'BT 30878
Useable Case Capaci: 120.538 grain H2O = 7.826 cm�
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.655 inch = 92.84 mm
Barrel Length : 26.0 inch = 660.4 mm
Powder : Norma 217

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-20.0 80 88.00 2664 2648 30235 12799 94.9 1.693
-18.0 82 90.20 2734 2789 32422 13177 96.1 1.652
-16.0 84 92.40 2804 2934 34785 13528 97.2 1.613
-14.0 86 94.60 2874 3082 37301 13847 98.1 1.574
-12.0 88 96.80 2944 3233 39963 14133 98.9 1.535
-10.0 90 99.00 3013 3387 42794 14382 99.4 1.498
-08.0 92 101.20 3082 3544 45817 14593 99.8 1.455
-06.0 94 103.40 3150 3702 49046 14763 100.0 1.409
-04.0 97 105.60 3218 3863 52495 14896 100.0 1.364
-02.0 99 107.80 3284 4024 56180 15020 100.0 1.322 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 101 110.00 3350 4187 60119 15140 100.0 1.280 ! Near Maximum !
+02.0 103 112.20 3415 4350 64329 15256 100.0 1.240 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0 105 114.40 3479 4516 68834 15367 100.0 1.202 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+06.0 107 116.60 3543 4682 73657 15473 100.0 1.165 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+08.0 109 118.80 3606 4851 78824 15574 100.0 1.130 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+10.0 111 121.00 3669 5021 84365 15670 100.0 1.095 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by � 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 101 110.00 3496 4559 73916 14586 100.0 1.168 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 101 110.00 3126 3646 46492 15592 98.3 1.433

Jet,

Thank you very much!

That's basically what I was looking for. It doesn't look like N217 will give results equal to those I'm getting with H50BMG and the 168gr Tipped TSX. This is a bit disappointing (I have 6 lbs of N217) in that Norma says N217 was developed specifically for the 30-378 and is supposedly the powder used in Weatherby factory ammo. Their manual shows 3,517 fps with the 165gr Norma Oryx over 113.5gr N217 and Win WLRM primers. Your Quickload data indicates 168 TTSX will only run 3,350 fps with acceptable pressure.

Norma says not to reduce N217 period -- something I was not comfortable with to begin with.

I have an email into Norma explaining my results and asking them if (under these circumstances) can the powder charge be reduced and if so, how much.

Thanks again for running the data for me.

Paul

Just wanted to update this post. It shows how different guns are. Norma ballistics tech, Quickload, and actual shooting experience. Here is a chronology of events:

I contacted Norma on several occasions � this is the result.

Update and Recap on .30-378 Weatherby Magnum

Weatherby specs list freebore is .361� for the .30-378 Wtby Mag. Best I can tell freebore on the rifle I have is at least .361 and maybe a bit more.

Rifle is clean.

Fired cases allow bullet to slide in and out freely (necks not too thick).

Barrel Length: 26�
Action: Dakota 97

Loaded with Norma 217 (Lot Number 0603 135067)
1x factory fired Weatherby cases
Federal 215 magnum primers
168gr Barnes Tipped TSX
Seated at 3.645� OAL

Chronograh set 20� (about 6 meters) from muzzle.

Per Norma�s instructions, I started with one round at 113.5gr as listed in manual for 165gr oryx � sticky bolt uplift (for about the width of the extractor cut), extractor cut mark on case head, extraction normal and velocity didn�t register on chronograph. Temp � 65-70 Deg F

After email from Norma (saying drop charge no more than 3 grains) I tried 111.5gr � velocity average 3,609 fps at 70 Deg F. Bolt lift not completely normal with resistance on initial uplift and some resistance midway thru bolt uplift (each case was a bit different) � extractor cut marks on several case heads, and extraction was normal.

Dropped charge to 110.5gr � velocity 3,567 fps. Bolt lift and case head marks less noticeable than 111.5gr but still evident to some degree. Temp 65 Deg F

Dropped charge to 109.5gr � velocity 3,520 fps. Bolt lift normal, case head normal. Temp 60 Deg F.

It looks like I should stop at 109.5gr � does this sound reasonable and 3,520 fps.

Tried the 109.5gr load again � again, initial bolt lift still balking slightly and extractor cut marks on case head.

Went down to 108.5gr � chrono gave 3,463 fps and bolt lift was totally normal, although several cases showed slight ejector cut marks. Used two chronos one behind the other. Shot 3 at 200 yards and got a 2� group � vertical dispersion was �� � wind was fairly strong and swirling which may account for horiz spread (which I can live with even if not wind related).]

I finally feel comfortable with this load and will load 20 to verify.

To put this into perspective � 118.0gr of H50BMG at 3,380 w/168gr TTSX is max in this gun (as much as 123.0gr is listed as max in various reliable sources).
..
Regards,

Paul