I will be backpack hunting alone this fall in an area with a good Grizzly population and after some research decided to buy a Glock 20 10mm. I am not too worried about bears and I will have a rifle. I normally do not carry a pistol and will take all bear-safe measures, like hanging food, avoiding mama bear, and carrying bear spray. As a backpack hunter, I am always looking for ways to shave weight. Adding a pistol works against that I know. However, I will sleep a little better with a pistol nearby. I looked at a 44 magnum but you start losing effectiveness with a (lightweight) short barrel, which points back to the 10mm. Also, I am very comfortable with a Glock. My dilemma is the Glock 20 10mm weighs 2#8oz and my Glock 23 40 cal weighs 2#0oz, or a half pound less. Both of these are with 14 shells. I am tempted to carry the 40 cal, save a half pound, and hope I never need it. Should I carry the 10mm canon, compromise with the 40 cal, or ditch the pistol altogether?
Would a pistol have made a difference? I'm guessing things happened pretty fast. I don't typically carry my 44 when rifle hunting cause it's just plain heavy. I thought hard about picking up a Glock 29 just for backpacking but decided to stick with pepper spray and my SR40 and do my best not to surprise or invite trouble from an ill-tempered bear. Never any guarantees though.
I think your on the right track, A G-20 is what I keep in the SE around black bear, and the gun I carried to Yellowstone. Compared to my 3" S&W 629 the Glock is 3/4 lb lighter, and 1" shorter.
From the 3" barrel the 44 mag only delivers around 1150 fps with 240 gr bullets compared to the 1300 fps I get with 200 gr DoubleTap ammo in the Glock. On paper I suppose the 44 is still somewhat more powerful, but not enough to justify the added weight and 10 fewer rounds.
In either case you need a lot of luck and a lot of penetration. I'm betting penetration is about the same, and the Glock gives me 16 chances to get in a lucky hit vs 6 with the 44.
Most people don't really want the truth.
They just want constant reassurance that what they believe is the truth.
OP said having a pistol will make him sleep better at night. That is good enough reason for me. I doubt the weight of the Glock will change the outcome of his hunt.
The ultimate answer would be a Smith 329 PD .44 mag. It is light enough for the purpose but very hard to train and get proficient enough with serious loads to make it a life saver in an emergency.If you are not going to put in the time and misery required you are better served with something else.
The Glock 20 and 29 in 10mm are only relevant for this purpose with hard cast heavy bullet loads (doubletap). As stated you do not need full mags.
The topic of how many rounds the guns hold is not viable, you will be lucky to get off more than one or two rounds on a charging bear.
The topic of how many rounds the guns hold is not viable, you will be lucky to get off more than one or two rounds on a charging bear.
+1
"In 2009, Montana wildlife authorities reported that a man hunting pheasants with dogs was justified in self-defense when he shot a charging grizzly. Galen West jumped the bedded bear with three cubs at 20 feet. His third and fatal shot hit the bear between the eyes."
If I remember correctly, this guy got ran over by the bear after the fatal shot.
OP said having a pistol will make him sleep better at night. That is good enough reason for me. I doubt the weight of the Glock will change the outcome of his hunt.
Ear plugs weigh less. Ifhe takes all of the normal bear precautions around camp, the chances are slim he'll ever see a bear and he'll still have his rifle. Ear plugs will allow him to sleep without jumping to every bump in the night.
I'd save the two pounds for a more comfortable sleeping set up (or whiskey), but I carry a gun for a living so it lacks the romantic charm! . I still can't wrap my brain wanting a pistol when you can have a rifle.
Hmm, he is in a 2man tent, a bear pounces on the tent, no room to swing a rifle and if he blasts off with the bear spray chances are he'll blind himself, yeah I could see where a pistol would come in handy.
Hmm, he is in a 2man tent, a bear pounces on the tent, no room to swing a rifle and if he blasts off with the bear spray chances are he'll blind himself, yeah I could see where a pistol would come in handy.
Only if he's attacked in his tent by a bear, something that statistically, won't happen.
Chances you need it...almost zero. Brymoore however is incorrect. Just a couple years ago a grizzly attacked and killed campers in Soda Butte Campground, MT just outside of Yellowstone. They were all sleeping in a tent, and multiple tents were attacked. A rifle and bear spray is probably more than enough, but either would be tough to use in a tent.
I have both a Glock 20 and a 329pd. I like both, but lean toward the Glock for most uses. When weight is a premium I tend to take the 329 as it is noticeably lighter. If it matters to you, the Glock is a great general purpose handgun that is fun to shoot the 99.9% of the time you are not backpacking. The 329 is not fun to shoot at all and generally sits in the safe most of the time. If I had to pick only one it would be the Glock.
Chances you need it...almost zero. Brymoore however is incorrect. Just a couple years ago a grizzly attacked and killed campers in Soda Butte Campground, MT just outside of Yellowstone. They were all sleeping in a tent, and multiple tents were attacked. A rifle and bear spray is probably more than enough, but either would be tough to use in a tent.
I have both a Glock 20 and a 329pd. I like both, but lean toward the Glock for most uses. When weight is a premium I tend to take the 329 as it is noticeably lighter. If it matters to you, the Glock is a great general purpose handgun that is fun to shoot the 99.9% of the time you are not backpacking. The 329 is not fun to shoot at all and generally sits in the safe most of the time. If I had to pick only one it would be the Glock.
Brymoore was right. Statistically, the tent attack is extremely unlikely to happen.
Likely a much better chance that a drunk naked co-ed will stumble into your tent than a bear.
Well, he said 'statistically won't happen'. I'll agree it is a statistical rarity, but I would not say it NEVER happens, as clearly it does. Of course, the most dangerous part of the trip is the car ride, followed by threat of heart attack due to exertion or excitement, followed by slip and fall, followed by exposure, followed by insect sting, followed by.....but what fun would it be to talk about all that?
Great feedback and I have to say I am intrigued with the Smith 329. It is 25 ounces empty, and likely around 29 ounces loaded with six. That is approaching the Glock 23 40 cal at 32 ounces with 14 shells. Granted the 44 mag would be more effective.
I think Apparition nailed the issue best, sleeping in a nylon taco shell (tent) trying to point a rifle or spray pepper spray is an unpleasant thought. While unlikely, it is a possibility. We had a grizzly come into camp last year after a kill in the Brooks Range. We ran him off pretty easily but afterward the guide pointed out the best feature of a floor-less tent; if something comes in the front door, you can pull up stakes and go out the back. I now have a floor-less tent.
On every trip I always wish I had carried less junk up the mountain. I would really like to skip the pistol but I know it will be comforting to have in the tent. Whiskey is probably the best solution. Skipping a few meals and carrying the Glock 20 is probably a better one. Dropping from 14 to 10 shells will shed a couple of ounces and it is unlikely you would ever use one shell, much less 14. That is a great suggestion and while a few ounces doesn't normally matter, it all adds up when backpack hunting.
The weights loaded should be as follows:
SW 329 44mag with 6 shells. -- 29 ounces Glock 29 40 caliber with 10 shells -- 30 ounces Glock 29 40 caliber with 14 shells -- 32 ounces Glock 20 10mm with 10 shells. -- 38 ounces Glock 20 10mm with 14 shells. -- 40 ounces
I don't think I will save much weight going with the 329 based on the above. The only time I can see I would ever use a pistol is in the unlikely event I suddenly found myself in a wresting match with a bear in the dark while wearing a sleeping bag inside a nylon taco shell. In that case, the 44 mag might be a slightly better tool. And, 11 ounces of weight from one extreme to the other is significant. I know, it sounds like justification to buy another gun -- grin.
�Kammer was in his tent at Soda Butte Campground when a mother bear attacked and dragged him 25 feet (7.6 m) away.�
�Ives was grabbed from a family tent in American Fork Canyon, and mauled.�
�The Huffmans were attacked while in their tent at a campsite along the Hulahula River 12 miles (19 km) upriver from Kaktovik.�
�In the Marten River Campground, Waddel was dragged from a tent during the night and killed.�
�Mahoney was dragged from a tent and killed at Many Glacier campground. Rangers killed two grizzly bears in the area a few hours after the attack.�
�Anderson was grabbed from his tent while camping. His body was found 100 feet (30 m) from the tent.�
�Fredenhagen was dragged from her tent during the night and killed at a backcountry campsite at the southern end of White Lake in Yellowstone National Park.�
�May was dragged from his tent, and eaten at the Rainbow Point campground, northwest of Yellowstone National Park. The bear was captured and killed with an injection of poison.�
Those are just reported fatalities. I recall a tent attack in N. Mex. About 12 years ago where a guy shot a black bear while biting his head and lived, because the bear died from the gunshot wound.
Rifle is more difficult in a tent. Spray is ridiculously stupid protecting against a bear in a tent.
As you can see bear attacks happen, but they are few and far between.
That is correct. But so are vehicle accident fatalities compared to the time in a vehicle. I'm 46, and never had my seat belt or airbag deployed. I've driven hundreds of thousands of miles and never yet "needed" them. Still put the seatbelt on. In the meantime, I've used a handgun in the backwoods of Colorado one time that meant the difference between tragedy and otherwise. It involved a threat from several humans, but if I had not had my 40S&W at the time, it would have meant very bad things for my, then, fianc� and me. I also know several people who have been threatened in remote camps/hikes by mountain lions and bears. Not common. But it does happen. I never put my vehicles in drive without the seatbelt on. I never go out into the wild without a handgun. If I am hunting, I leave the rifle in the tent during intermission, and put a 30oz-52oz (depending) handgun on my hip. Probably okay without it. I do have a couple of small boys though, and I would hate to have them asking, while I'm dead," why didn't he have one of his guns"? If the boys are with me, even more so.
The topic of how many rounds the guns hold is not viable, you will be lucky to get off more than one or two rounds on a charging bear.
Possibly:
"'The man, who was in the lead, drew a .45 [ACP] caliber semi-automatic pistol when they heard a noise coming from the brush. When the [brown] bear emerged from the thicket and ran toward the other hiker, he fired approximately nine rounds in its general direction. The bear stopped, turned, and walked back into the brush, where it quickly disappeared from view,' said the [park's] release. ... The bear was found dead in a willow thicket approximately 100 feet from the pistol casings ..." http://www.nationalparkstraveler.co...rs-denali-national-park-and-preserve5943
After a couple decades of dicking off in the backcountry, here's what I know about handguns. You'll never need one, until you do.
You're going to carry in 16000% more than you're actually going to shoot it...
In todays day and age of badass ninja [bleep], you'd be an idiot to pack a handgun that wasn't wearing tritiums and a weapons mounted light around 200 lumens.
Glock 20's are badass. Buy your ammo from Underwood or Buffalo Bore. DT is bullshit, and far from what it says it chrono's. If there's an animal alive that can take 200 grain Hornady XTPs at a honest to god 1218 FPS, I don't want to meet it in a dark alley.
Packing a handgun in rifle season is [bleep] retarded.
Buy a G20 and rock on... If you break it, wear it out, rust it out, just go buy another one for 550 bucks.
I have a glock 20 and a 329 PD...on the times I got backpacking without a rifle (summer scouting for example)up here in Alaska I take the 329 PD every time with the buffalo bore rounds that are made basically for the 329 PD.
For bear protection in a tent that you are so concerned you won't need 10 shots a mag....you'll be doing good to get one off so the fact that the 44 mag holds 6 is really about 4 too many
But if I am out hunting up here, I never carry a pistol if I have a rifle along. Just more stuff to carry and worry about. I suppose if wasn't a weight restricted backpacking hunt (most of my hunts are backpack hunts) I could bring the pistol, but I usually don't. Guess I don't worry about it like most do or lose and sleep over it.
If it makes you sleep better and gives you a warm fuzzy sure bring the pistol, otherwise just keep your rifle close by and "roll the dice". Though I like my odds so I think I'll stick with just taking the rifle on my rifle hunts
I use a very light electric bear fence when in grizzly country. Or if I want to go very light an electric door alarm rigged up with fishing line to go off f something walks through it.
Way better than waking up with a bear collapsing the tent and sitting on my chest! Here in Canada a handgun is out so I make do with a Rossi Ranch Hand in 44 mag, It's considered a rifle up here.
I ended up putting a full stock on it as it handles so much better and it's still pretty handy
-You are 12 times more likely to die of a bee sting than a bear attack (120 times more likely compared to a black bear)
-You are 10 times more likely to die from a dog attack than a bear attack (45 times more likely compared to a black bear attack)
-For each person killed by a black bear attack there are 13 people killed by snakes, 17 by spiders, 45 by dogs, 120 by bees, 150 by tornadoes, 374 by lightning, and 60,000 by humans.
While you are correct, you are missing two things. First many, many more people are exposed to the other risks (dogs, bees, snakes, etc.). You cite number of people hurt, not rates. One reason why number of bear attacks are low is the fact that they have a limited range and there are a limited number of people exposed to the risk, especially in comparison to lightning, spiders, etc. Not many people have the opportunity to get mauled while on the golf course or baseball field, but plenty of them get struck by lightning. You understate his risk exposure when you cite general odds and he is undertaking a specific activity that exposes him to the risk.
While the above point I made is true, it also doesn't matter. The main point is the OP wanted advice on a handgun choice, not advice on why he doesn't need one. Statistically, he never will need it, but he wants it and that is enough. He should get what makes him feel good and sleep well at night. After all, if a G20 in his tent lets him rest easy and get an extra hour or two of sack time, he will probably reduce his risk of heart attack enough to make the cost of carrying the thing worthwhile.
After a couple decades of dicking off in the backcountry, here's what I know about handguns. You'll never need one, until you do.
You're going to carry in 16000% more than you're actually going to shoot it...
In todays day and age of badass ninja [bleep], you'd be an idiot to pack a handgun that wasn't wearing tritiums and a weapons mounted light around 200 lumens.
Glock 20's are badass. Buy your ammo from Underwood or Buffalo Bore. DT is bullshit, and far from what it says it chrono's. If there's an animal alive that can take 200 grain Hornady XTPs at a honest to god 1218 FPS, I don't want to meet it in a dark alley.
Packing a handgun in rifle season is [bleep] retarded.
Buy a G20 and rock on... If you break it, wear it out, rust it out, just go buy another one for 550 bucks.
I always get a kick out of these threads, because it seems like the guys who worry the most about these encounters are not the guys who live, work, and play in bear country.
Another thing I'll mention: Our Canadian neighbors seem to get by just fine without handguns (though some are able to carry) in big bear habitat.
You gotta Bill Drill time with a 329 you'd care to share?
1) Backpack hunting (remember, the topic for this thread?) ... leaning back against a tree and 4x5 buck walks by at 27 yards unaware of you.
2) Back country, 2:17 am, hunting alone, sleeping bag in a bivy sack under a tarp. You wake up with warm breath in your face and a snarl echoing in your ears.
Now, for S&G, please remind me WTF a "Bill Drill" has to do with reality.
Tom
Anyone who thinks there's two sides to everything hasn't met a M�bius strip.
-You are 12 times more likely to die of a bee sting than a bear attack (120 times more likely compared to a black bear)
-You are 10 times more likely to die from a dog attack than a bear attack (45 times more likely compared to a black bear attack)
-For each person killed by a black bear attack there are 13 people killed by snakes, 17 by spiders, 45 by dogs, 120 by bees, 150 by tornadoes, 374 by lightning, and 60,000 by humans.
"60,000 by humans." As I said above, I carry a firearm when backpacking as much for humans as anything else.
Dogs? Do you want me to cite the countless instances where life-threatening dog attacks have been prevented with a firearm? I hate to go to the trouble, but I might if you insist.
No dogs, bees, tornadoes, snakes, or spiders, where I go brown bear hunting.
Two people close to me (one had a .44) had a black bear sow with cubs invade their camp area in the Sangre de Cristos, and it went on for hours. They didn't have to shoot the bear, but they would have been a lot more unnecessarily stressed if they had not had that option. A lady I know was with a "Sierra Club backpacking trip in the 2002 drought year in Colo. when the group was harassed for hours by a hungry mountain lion in their camp. They tried to deter the lion with rocks, screaming, etc... to no avail and then huddled in their tents for hours. When she told me of the story at work, and asked me whether I ever worried about something like that, I said "No." She said "Why?" I said "Because I always carry my .44 Magnum Redhawk when I go backpacking." She said "Ohhh." Epiphany. Animals (let alone people) do sometimes threaten humans in the wild. Even if you might be okay with no firearm, it's unnecessarily more stressful in some situations without a safety net. Just like the seatbelt you may NEVER need. I have NEVER EVER used my life insurance policy. You can believe that, or I would not me typing this. I still have one. I never go out into the wild unarmed. WTF? Carrying a 27-oz gun (e.g. loaded G27 with 11 500-ft-lb loads) is too much for a "backpacker"? And, as I said earlier, I avoided a serious tragedy once by being so armed when confronted by some freaks. Best 27ozs I ever carried.
You gotta Bill Drill time with a 329 you'd care to share?
1) Backpack hunting (remember, the topic for this thread?) ... leaning back against a tree and 4x5 buck walks by at 27 yards unaware of you.
2) Back country, 2:17 am, hunting alone, sleeping bag in a bivy sack under a tarp. You wake up with warm breath in your face and a snarl echoing in your ears.
Now, for S&G, please remind me WTF a "Bill Drill" has to do with reality.
I never go out into the wild unarmed. WTF? Carrying a 27-oz gun (e.g. loaded G27 with 11 500-ft-lb loads) is too much for a "backpacker"? And, as I said earlier, I avoided a serious tragedy once by being so armed when confronted by some freaks. Best 27ozs I ever carried.
But, but, you've only killed ONE brown bear, and you're not from Alaska:)
I never go out into the wild unarmed. WTF? Carrying a 27-oz gun (e.g. loaded G27 with 11 500-ft-lb loads) is too much for a "backpacker"? And, as I said earlier, I avoided a serious tragedy once by being so armed when confronted by some freaks. Best 27ozs I ever carried.
But, but, you've only killed ONE brown bear, and you're not from Alaska:)
Love Alaska, but not from it. Post isn't specific to AK or BB. OP isn't from AK and didn't mention AK. It's just my opinion.:) There are bears in Colorado.:) There are bears in N. Mex.:) There are cats in Colo. There are people in Kansas. There are bears in W.Va. Been to AK, but haven't killed every bear there.:) I carry a 27oz+ little gun without much trouble.:) I love smiley faces. :):):):):):):):):):):):):):):)
I don't think anyone says you have to be from Alaska contribute to this thread.
Most are mearly giving our experience on what we do when we go hunting with a rifle into grizzly country (OP didn't ask about people in KC, cats in Colo, or black bears in New Mexico).
Some of us spend quite a bit more time in grizzly country that others, but that certainly doesn't make your concerns any less valid at all and I don't think anyone is saying that.
We aren't talking about just general backpacking, cause then of course taking a handgun along makes sense. But for a backpack hunt in grizzly country when you are already taking a rifle then it just seems overly redundant to take a handgun IMO, and my opinion is just that so you get what you pay for it.
MH, on your brown bear hunt it wasn't a backpack hunt, in that you weren't carrying your whole camp on your back everyday. In such a situation then sure why not bring a sidearm to go fishing and what not, though I still think its overkill cause you were with a guide but that is your choice not mine so rock on, but this wasn't what the OP said he was going to do. He said he was going backpack hunting in grizzly country, not backpacking in Colorado with mountain lions and black bears. Just trying to keep it on topic.
I certainly respect your opinion/experience based on your hunt up here in Alaska. I just have a different outlook on it. Doesn't make either right or wrong, its a free country (for the most part unless you live in Cali) and we can carry whatever amount of firearms we want into the backcountry. I just don't feel the need to take more than one per person and often one handgun or rifle shared is good enough for my backpack hunts.
If the OP sleep better at night cause he has a 30 oz handgun in addition to his rifle then by all means take it...sleep is important on a hunt and 30 oz isn't gonna really make a difference in the scheme of things, but I wouldn't go out of my way to buy a handgun if I was him and didn't have one.
Depending on his rifle even bringing a 30 oz handgun along might still be lighter than many hunting rifles. My .308 Kimber and 329 PD combined for 7.5 pounds all up and loaded. Its not that it weighs too much, its that I don't see the need for it and I don't like carrying things I don't feel I need.
However if he is trying to justify a handgun purchase....then by all means I agree :), YOU'LL FREAKING DIE IF YOU DON"T HAVE ONE...BUY TWO!!! :P
I don't carry a handgun if I'm hunting either. But I certainly do when backpacking.
Either way, the lighter the better in my opinion and for that I still vote for the scandium framed Smiths. I carry a 396 and it's great.
I've also carried Glocks loaded with 10 rounds, or 8. Carried them in shoulder/chest rigs and on my hip belt. They just made me wish I'd brought the 396.
Travis
Originally Posted by Geno67
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual.
Originally Posted by Judman
Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit.
Originally Posted by KSMITH
My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
That fairly oozes "reality".......The tactical garb, the hearing protection, the red partitions, the camera rolling to record it all......it almost feels as real as the set of a TV show.....
That fairly oozes "reality".......The tactical garb, the hearing protection, the red partitions, the camera rolling to record it all......it almost feels as real as the set of a TV show.....
You still hanging on my every post? You silly SOB. That "reality" you mock is where people from all over the world go for the finest handgun instruction available. That include tier one clients.
A few years ago I was looking for a hand gun for backpacking, the best advice I found came from other "muledeer" Dennis from Alaska who use to be a regular here. (BTW I hope he is well I know he was had a health issue and rarely posted after that)
His advice was buy sometime you could carry conformably because you would actually have with you when the need arises. He had gone the route of buying the big magnums but found out he always reached for his Taurus 5 shot 44 mag when heading out because it carried so well. I got to try one out and purchased it, It is light with a ported 4� barrel that is easy for me to shoot even with my hotter loads and some reason I can shoot that gun better then my 357 S&W or my Ruger 41 Mag.
Yup. Like someone already observed, the entertainment value is off the charts. Since Lee24 and Larry Root aren't around, your posts are the best thing going.
...buy something you could carry conformably because you would actually have with you when the need arises....
I'll restate this. Buy something you will carry. Bigger magnums might give you a warm fuzzy but are useless when left in the truck or the cabinet.
I'd also offer cautionary advice... It's your choice to carry a secondary firearm (handgun) and I don't dispute it. That said, be wary of the sense of security/boldness it might provide. Most of the scenarios listed ended without shots fired and without physical confrontation. Although the people were scared (rightfully so, always maintain a healthy respect for danger even when armed... especially when armed), they all survived without a fight.
I'm not opposed to packing heat, but the right mindset is always essential.
"Bears are like gold... they're heavier than they look."
Good advice. I like the lightweight S&W revolver for this reason--it's not heavy enough to tempt me to leave it behind. Plus we only have black bears here.
The last two run-ins I've had ended without having to use it but I was glad to have it. Especially with the bear that came in fast while I was cow calling with a bow in my hand. He was looking for something to eat, and even after he recognized I wasn't an elk he lingered, and gave me the stink-eye before he slowly walked off.
Come to think of it, I was glad to have it for the one that was just starting to chow on my bull when I walked up too. He ran without hesitation, but I wanted to put one in his ass, just on principle. Didn't though, of course.
-You are 12 times more likely to die of a bee sting than a bear attack (120 times more likely compared to a black bear)
-You are 10 times more likely to die from a dog attack than a bear attack (45 times more likely compared to a black bear attack)
-For each person killed by a black bear attack there are 13 people killed by snakes, 17 by spiders, 45 by dogs, 120 by bees, 150 by tornadoes, 374 by lightning, and 60,000 by humans.
"60,000 by humans." As I said above, I carry a firearm when backpacking as much for humans as anything else.
Dogs? Do you want me to cite the countless instances where life-threatening dog attacks have been prevented with a firearm? I hate to go to the trouble, but I might if you insist.
No dogs, bees, tornadoes, snakes, or spiders, where I go brown bear hunting.
Two people close to me (one had a .44) had a black bear sow with cubs invade their camp area in the Sangre de Cristos, and it went on for hours. They didn't have to shoot the bear, but they would have been a lot more unnecessarily stressed if they had not had that option. A lady I know was with a "Sierra Club backpacking trip in the 2002 drought year in Colo. when the group was harassed for hours by a hungry mountain lion in their camp. They tried to deter the lion with rocks, screaming, etc... to no avail and then huddled in their tents for hours. When she told me of the story at work, and asked me whether I ever worried about something like that, I said "No." She said "Why?" I said "Because I always carry my .44 Magnum Redhawk when I go backpacking." She said "Ohhh." Epiphany. Animals (let alone people) do sometimes threaten humans in the wild. Even if you might be okay with no firearm, it's unnecessarily more stressful in some situations without a safety net. Just like the seatbelt you may NEVER need. I have NEVER EVER used my life insurance policy. You can believe that, or I would not me typing this. I still have one. I never go out into the wild unarmed. WTF? Carrying a 27-oz gun (e.g. loaded G27 with 11 500-ft-lb loads) is too much for a "backpacker"? And, as I said earlier, I avoided a serious tragedy once by being so armed when confronted by some freaks. Best 27ozs I ever carried.
Who said go out unarmed? OP will have a rifle. Furthermore, you seem to be more worried about PEOPLE than bears, which you should be statistically.
All of the grizz encounters I'm familiar with (and I live in a grizz state) were during hikes during daylight. Most encounters happened because they bumped the bear on a trail. Furthermore, of the people who were attacked (with bite marks) most (not all) said that neither pistol nor bearspray would have helped due to the speed of the bear. I know of no one who was attacked in a tent at night.
Has anyone on this board had a bear encounter while in a tent at night? No third party reports.
For those who DO wish to carry a handgun. A HPG Kitbag is a right handy thing to take on a picnic. It will comfortably carry most any handgun I could envision carrying into the woods, and transfers all the weight onto your shoulders. You can even sleep fairly comfortably while wearing it I suppose. (I've never tried that) I wish there were a reasonable way to attach a holster to a hipbelt of a backpack but if there is I haven't seen it yet. The kitbag works great. http://www.hillpeoplegear.com/
Gloria In Excelsis Deo!
Originally Posted by Calvin
As far as gear goes.. The poorer (or cheaper) you are, the tougher you need to be.
I will be backpack hunting alone this fall in an area with a good Grizzly population and after some research decided to buy a Glock 20 10mm. I am not too worried about bears and I will have a rifle. I normally do not carry a pistol and will take all bear-safe measures, like hanging food, avoiding mama bear, and carrying bear spray. As a backpack hunter, I am always looking for ways to shave weight. Adding a pistol works against that I know. However, I will sleep a little better with a pistol nearby. I looked at a 44 magnum but you start losing effectiveness with a (lightweight) short barrel, which points back to the 10mm. Also, I am very comfortable with a Glock. My dilemma is the Glock 20 10mm weighs 2#8oz and my Glock 23 40 cal weighs 2#0oz, or a half pound less. Both of these are with 14 shells. I am tempted to carry the 40 cal, save a half pound, and hope I never need it. Should I carry the 10mm canon, compromise with the 40 cal, or ditch the pistol altogether?
When I'm hunting I don't carry a pistol since I already have a rifle, but when i'm hiking or fishing I carry a pistola. I also carry a pistol when i'm bowhunting. I wouldn't carry the Glock while hunting but having it handy in the tent ain't a bad idea. If you want to carry it then don't carry max capacity, 6-8 rounds should be plenty because if you don't hit it with the first 1 or 2, your probably dinner anyways. lol
I don't think anyone says you have to be from Alaska contribute to this thread.
Most are mearly giving our experience on what we do when we go hunting with a rifle into grizzly country (OP didn't ask about people in KC, cats in Colo, or black bears in New Mexico).
Some of us spend quite a bit more time in grizzly country that others, but that certainly doesn't make your concerns any less valid at all and I don't think anyone is saying that.
We aren't talking about just general backpacking, cause then of course taking a handgun along makes sense. But for a backpack hunt in grizzly country when you are already taking a rifle then it just seems overly redundant to take a handgun IMO, and my opinion is just that so you get what you pay for it.
MH, on your brown bear hunt it wasn't a backpack hunt, in that you weren't carrying your whole camp on your back everyday. In such a situation then sure why not bring a sidearm to go fishing and what not, though I still think its overkill cause you were with a guide but that is your choice not mine so rock on, but this wasn't what the OP said he was going to do. He said he was going backpack hunting in grizzly country, not backpacking in Colorado with mountain lions and black bears. Just trying to keep it on topic.
I certainly respect your opinion/experience based on your hunt up here in Alaska. I just have a different outlook on it. Doesn't make either right or wrong, its a free country (for the most part unless you live in Cali) and we can carry whatever amount of firearms we want into the backcountry. I just don't feel the need to take more than one per person and often one handgun or rifle shared is good enough for my backpack hunts.
If the OP sleep better at night cause he has a 30 oz handgun in addition to his rifle then by all means take it...sleep is important on a hunt and 30 oz isn't gonna really make a difference in the scheme of things, but I wouldn't go out of my way to buy a handgun if I was him and didn't have one.
Depending on his rifle even bringing a 30 oz handgun along might still be lighter than many hunting rifles. My .308 Kimber and 329 PD combined for 7.5 pounds all up and loaded. Its not that it weighs too much, its that I don't see the need for it and I don't like carrying things I don't feel I need.
However if he is trying to justify a handgun purchase....then by all means I agree :), YOU'LL FREAKING DIE IF YOU DON"T HAVE ONE...BUY TWO!!! :P
I agree with you. My bad for failing to account for the backpacking Grizzly aspect. I do carry a light sidearm on my backpack hunts down here, but would not do so on a sheep hunt in AK or an elk hunt in the northern Rocky's etc ... My backpack hunts lately have been 10-miles or fewer and that's not the same. I see the difference.
I am the OP and wanted to follow up on this thread after the hunt. Thanks for all the great comments. I ended up going with the lighter Glock 23 40 SW instead of the Glock 20 10mm. This saved a half pound of weight for something that would likely never be used. As a backpack hunter that is a big weight savings. I did upgrade to Underwoods Ammo, which adds a lot of power to the 40 with little weight gain. Since I had a rifle, I left the pistol buried in my backpack until night. At night, I kept it handy in the tent. I was hunting alone and it did add a little peace of mind.
On the second night of the hunt, I awoke in the middle of the night to what sounded like a big dog sniffing the tent right at my head. Of course I am thinking it is not a dog. I grabbed the pistol, moved to the center of the tent and hollered at the noise. Things quietened down but I didn't get much sleep the rest of the night. The next morning I couldn't find any tracks since it was a grassy campsite. It could of been the wind causing the tent to rub on my sleeping bag. I will never know but it was comforting having a pistol handy in the tent even if it may have been slightly inadequate, I was at least going to put up a fight if something wanted in my tent.
The Tritium sights were amazing as I could easily see the pistol and didn't have to dig around for it or turn on a light to find it. When comparing the ballistics of the full length Glock 40 SW with Underwoods ammo, it starts approaching the performance of the 44 with a very short barrel with similar weight. The Glock holds more ammo and is something I feel more comfortable shooting. Probably neither is great medicine for Grizzly but better than nothing.
This is my backpacking/fishing rig. Nothing to pick a fight with but if trouble comes I've got options. Probably won't carry the 29 during rifle season though.
Mike: Nice rig. Have you chronographed those 220 fp in your model 29? Buffalo Bore says 1140 fps in a model 20 with a 4.6" barrel but the model 29 has a 3.8" barrel. What size is your HPG Kit Bag? Thanks for the info. I have a Taurus Ti Tracker 41 mag that I chronographed a 250 fp hard cast at 1265 fps from a 4" ported barrel but the Glock 29 is a much more compact package.
bobmn, I haven't run the Underwood Hardcast over the Chronograph yet. Box claims 1200 fps, I'm figuring on around 1100. The HPG is their "Runners Kit Bag".
Mike: That info is valuable. I doubt a Ti Tracker would fit in the Runners Kit Bag. Thanks. Now I have to decide whether 165 fps. and 30 grains of extra bullet weight is worth the bulk. It would be interesting to compare the 2 bullets for penetration at a Linebaugh Seminar.
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. I still can't wrap my brain wanting a pistol when you can have a rifle. 
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