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Originally Posted by smokepole
Originally Posted by JohnBurns
We tend to invest more in things we enjoy and skimp on other things that don't spark our interest. Human nature.


Or you could say we tend to value the things we're good at over all else. That's human nature. That's why guys who are good long range shooters think other guys who have zero interest in it are "incomplete."


You seem to keep missing the sort of Zenish point that all hunters are incomplete. There is always room for improvement. Or maybe you feel you are a "complete hunter" with nothing left to learn and no room for improvement?

Originally Posted by smokepole
For lots of guys, it's not a competition.


Yet here you are "competing" in a debate on a forum about Long Range Hunting.

Originally Posted by smokepole
In any case, a "complete hunter" is not yours to define.


Sure it is, you just don't have to agree with my definition.

Or do you feel only you can define a "complete hunter". That seems pretty competitive. crazy

Originally Posted by smokepole
But that's just your opinion, it's not a fact.


Did you really just now figure that out? All the drivel I post here is just an opinion, usually mine but sometime I quote somebody else opinion. See Below.

Originally Posted by rcamuglia
Lots of people who have "zero interest" in certain activities have tried them, realized they have zero natural ability and zero work ethic to do the work to master them.


Most with "zero interest" don't regularly post in forums dedicated to that "interest". grin

I guess I should add IMHO. wink


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John,

I was going to post something about smokie's arrogance but you did a better job. He makes statements as though they are the final thought on the subject. crazy


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Originally Posted by JohnBurns
You seem to keep missing the sort of Zenish point that all hunters are incomplete. There is always room for improvement. Or maybe you feel you are a "complete hunter" with nothing left to learn and no room for improvement?


No, I didn't miss that point at all. Did you see me say I'm a complete hunter, or that someone else is not?

I was simply responding to someone who labeled a whole class of hunters as incomplete. And I'm the arrogant one, huh?

You said physical conditioning is a weakness for you. It's not for me.

But I'm not the labeling you an incomplete hunter because of your lack of conditioning. Because it's none of my business and not my place.

Originally Posted by JohnBurns
Or do you feel only you can define a "complete hunter".


Nice try, but I'm not the one defining "the complete hunter" or labeling others as "incomplete;" that would be you.

Get it now? You and Ringman make a good pair.

Throw in Dick Vitale, and you've got the trifecta!!!!

And by the way "long range hunting" is not a proper noun, you don't need to capitalize it, even though you kneel before it.



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Originally Posted by rcamuglia
Anyone who is any good at anything had to put hard work, time, blood, sweat and tears into becoming good.


Never disputed that, and never criticized long-range shooting or hunting. You guys seem a little defensive.


Originally Posted by rcamuglia
Do you think JohnBurns came out of the womb with a .264 with verified drop data to a mile? grin


No, but I bet he did come out with the perm and spray tan.


Originally Posted by rcamuglia
Lots of people who have "zero interest" in certain activities have tried them, realized they have zero natural ability and zero work ethic to do the work to master them.


That may be true, but let's not make long-range shooting out to be something it's not. It's not akin to hitting a major league fastball or casting a fly line 100 feet with your bare hinds like Lefty Kreh. With the equipment available today lots of guys have the "natural ability" to pull it off and become proficient. As a matter of fact, some people on this very thread make a living selling that equipment to the average "Joe Hunter" under the premise that the equipment will help make him a long-range hunter. Far fewer have the interest, desire, or level of comittment it takes to be really good.

And many do in fact have zero interest.



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Now we have an English teacher on the Long Range Hunting forum. How can things get any better than this?


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You could make a point.



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Originally Posted by smokepole
Originally Posted by JohnBurns
You seem to keep missing the sort of Zenish point that all hunters are incomplete. There is always room for improvement. Or maybe you feel you are a "complete hunter" with nothing left to learn and no room for improvement?


No, I didn't miss that point at all. Did you see me say I'm a complete hunter, or that someone else is not?

I was simply responding to someone who labeled a whole class of hunters as incomplete. And I'm the arrogant one, huh?

You said physical conditioning is a weakness for you. It's not for me.

But I'm not the labeling you an incomplete hunter because of your lack of conditioning. Because it's none of my business and not my place.

Originally Posted by JohnBurns
Or do you feel only you can define a "complete hunter".


Nice try, but I'm not the one defining "the complete hunter" or labeling others as "incomplete;" that would be you.

Get it now? You and Ringman make a good pair.

Throw in Dick Vitale, and you've got the trifecta!!!!

And by the way "long range hunting" is not a proper noun, you don't need to capitalize it, even though you kneel before it.


Hey you forgot to add "IMHO" at the end of your post. shocked


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Originally Posted by JohnBurns
Originally Posted by smokepole
Originally Posted by JohnBurns
You seem to keep missing the sort of Zenish point that all hunters are incomplete. There is always room for improvement. Or maybe you feel you are a "complete hunter" with nothing left to learn and no room for improvement?


No, I didn't miss that point at all. Did you see me say I'm a complete hunter, or that someone else is not?

I was simply responding to someone who labeled a whole class of hunters as incomplete. And I'm the arrogant one, huh?

You said physical conditioning is a weakness for you. It's not for me.

But I'm not the labeling you an incomplete hunter because of your lack of conditioning. Because it's none of my business and not my place.

Originally Posted by JohnBurns
Or do you feel only you can define a "complete hunter".


Nice try, but I'm not the one defining "the complete hunter" or labeling others as "incomplete;" that would be you.

Get it now? You and Ringman make a good pair.

Throw in Dick Vitale, and you've got the trifecta!!!!

And by the way "long range hunting" is not a proper noun, you don't need to capitalize it, even though you kneel before it.


Hey you forgot to add "IMHO" at the end of your post. shocked



No, I didn't forget, it's just that nothing in that post was an opinion.

And by the way, thanks for your contributions here on long-range shooting and hunting.



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You sure spend a lot of time on a subject that is not important to you.

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I like long-range shooting. When I said there were guys with zero interest in it, I wasn't talking about myself.

You spend a lot of time commenting on my posts, are you up for moderator?



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Yes, I'm shooting for Travis's job.

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You need more GFY's then.

Seriously, I appreciate guys like Burns and rc sharing their knowledge. Both are guys who are not afraid to throw out opinions, and JB especially takes a lot of crap from guys like me and does it with good humor. I can appreciate that. On technical stuff, obviously I can't hang with them, so I just listen. But on the other stuff like whether you need to be proficient at "long range" to be a "complete hunter," I will speak my mind. I don't think a little disagreement on stuff like that is remarkable.

At least it's better than "which cartridge is best" threads.



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Originally Posted by BobinNH
Hard to believe but there are some good,hard core hunters who are a bit naive ballistically. From a success standpoint they will hunt many sophisticated riflemen into the ground.

They are simple savages who know nothing more than Bluebox Federals in 30/06,308, or 270,and have never progressed beyond "hold dead on", and never kill anything much past 200 yards,if that. They don't need to because they understand how to hunt well and get close. Honestly many could not tell you if an animal was 300 or 700 yards away but none of it is important to them,as their shot judgement is pretty impeccable,and they tend to know when and what they can hit.

If you confuse them with the facts about shooting much past 200-250 yards, their eyes may glaze over but they fill freezers and hang horns on the wall every year.

Every time I see such people in action, or see another elk or deer hit the ground, I have to chuckle at myself and others who excruciate over a lot of this stuff and make it more complicated than it needs to be.


My pops is one of those such guys. Know's little to not a whole lot about ballistics and other such stuff. Back when I was a younger kid, we were shooting his new to him Browning 30-06. I pleaded with him (I read the gun rags that knew everything) he had to try some Federal Premium's with the 180 Nosler in order to kill everything (used to run 180 Core Lokt's with his old 30-06).. Well, the Federals shot well, he bought a case of the stuff, still has a few boxes left and commenced to taking moose, elk, deer, black bear and everything. We zeroed his rifle at 250 yards, and I don't think he hardly touches the scope from year to year, just takes a shot or two and still commences to killing animals. Great hunter and an excellent trapper. Ballistics talk brings the glazed over look Bob mentioned.

His 30-06 was so effective it was boring to me, so when I had the chance I bought a Model 70 7mm Rem Mag... Little did I know how close both of them were at the ranges we hunted..


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