Home Forums Fishing Flyfishing attn panfisherman, a lil help.

I use poppers for bluegills and the fly doesn't unroll very good. What size tapered leader and tippet are you popper fisherman using?

What weight line are you using?

This and do you have "enough" tippet?

Well two things you are going need to do, either shorten your leader till the bug turns over or lenghten the butt section. Its hard to really say, with so little details, I would need to know how long is your rod, wieght of the fly line, size of the bug for starters. Most of the time a slight adjustment to the leader is all that is needed, now if you are breaking your wrist, then you are not loading the rod. To load a rod you have to get the fly moving first, try starting your cast with the tip of your rod close to the water, and no slack in the line from your rod tip to your fly. For most blue gill fishing 4x tippet is about right, depending on fly size, the bigger popping bugs go to 2 or 3 x. How long is your leader? I never fish a leader over 7 1/2 to 9 foot at the outside for blue gills and bass, your leader maybe to limp, fine for trout fishing and 16 and 18 dries, something less tossing popping bugs in the 4 to 6 or 8 range.

Sorry, I'm using a 5wt wf line with a tappered leader about 7'6" long and a peice of some unknown line for tippet. I'm not a fly fishing guru but am profecient at casting. I'm just wondering what works for you guys never mind my equipment, its a mystery what brand and weight the leader and tippet are.

It may be the unknown line. Buy a spool of dedicated tippet material in about 4X. Regular mono is crafted to be ultra limp, and that isn't what you want in a tippet.

What gmsemel and Rocky posted about shorter and stiffer leaders is spot on.

You mentioned using an unknown tippet material and that's the first thing that needs attention. Since panfish aren't terribly line shy and especially when using poppers go with a relatively stiff tippet material in 6lb or 8lb test like Maxima. Keep the tippet short ... say approximately 20" and the overall leader under 8'. A good option would be go to a fly shop and purchase a bass or saltwater tapered leader that's made to turn over heavy flies.

Another thing that can affect how the leader turns over is the fly line to leader connection. It has to be a relatively even transition in stiffness as opposed to a uneven connection that can hinge. One way a hinge can occur is when you have an old knot that has worn through the outer coating on the fly line. If it hinges it won't roll over smoothly or efficiently

A last resort (and I do mean last because you can't undo it) would be to shorten the fly line itself. Bass bug tapers have a shorter taper from the main running line to the terminal end. They're designed to help turn the line over when casting heavy bulky flies versus a longer gradual taper (trout taper) that lays the line out smoothly with less slap on the water.

The only reason I'm mentioning this final option is because you have a 5 wt line which is marginal for turning over a heavy or wind resistant flies or poppers. Look at your line and see how long the terminal diameter is. A trout taper is usually in the 4' range. If it's 4' cut 12" off.

This isn't the best pic but it does show the difference in a gradual tapered fly line (double taper) vs a shorter blunt taper (saltwater taper) which is designed to cast heavy bulky flies.



Lastly what gmsemel posted ...

"To load a rod you have to get the fly moving first, try starting your cast with the tip of your rod close to the water, and no slack in the line from your rod tip to your fly"

This is what sets up the forward cast. You said you know how to cast so don't take offense. One of the most common errors I see is starting the forward cast too soon. You have to wait until the full length of the fly line is laid out straight on the back cast (wait until you feel the tug) and then punch it. This is the key to generating enough line speed and energy to lay out the line and roll it over.

Hope this helps.

Well, a 5wt with some of the small pan fish poppers is doable, I stand by my suggestions its a leader problem, and from what you said I am pretty sure that it. Now depending on what your rod action is, if its one of these newer Graphite rods, those are fairly stiff and fast action. you can up the line weight to say a 6 weight if you are so inclined. This will do two things, better load the rod and better turn over of leaders and bugs. I could care less what your rod is, most all of the rods that you can buy today are a dam sight better than what we had in the 1960's and 70's. Now if you are casting a glass rod that is another issue they tend to be a softer slower action, that required good timing on the casting stroke. In this case the 5 wt line would be a tad light making the actual fishing to much work and then you get tired and well things go down hill after that. Fly Fishing can be as simple or as complicated as you wish to make it. I been at it for 53 years now. And I have gone thru the same sort of problems, how to get the leaders to turn over etc. At least now there is a whole lot of information to be had with a click of a mouse. When I started I was on my own, and the first 20 years was filled with frustration. Its not a hard way to fish, its fairly easy once you get the basics down. We all have days on the water that is anything but cellar too. Sometimes no matter what you do, the only fish you are going to get is the one you buy from the fish monger.

^^^ More good advice.

Gmesmel, I hope you don't think I was disagreeing with you. I wasn't and everything you've posted is spot on. I agree that a proper leader should solve the issue.

I just blabbered on, in excess, to cover all bases.

No Fish Head, I don't think that at all, spot on, my post was directed at seal billy's second posting. Ditto's on the Maxima. I use a lot of that stuff myself, I build my own leaders, I start with Amnesia for butt sections, Maxima for mid, and these days frog hair for tippets. You are right, about his line connection, and I would go one further a dirty fly line is a lot harder to cast than a clean one. I clean and condition mine after every use. I also service my reels and rods. Its why I still fish a 8'6" RP II Sage for a five weight along with the Hardy LRH reel, my go to trout rod for going on 31 years now. There is a 4 wt rod that Wally World sells for around 18 dollars, is a 7 footer and its gotten good reviews on you tube. Gee add another 60 bucks for a reel and a fly line and you are in business for small to mid size stream trout- you don't need much to enjoy the sport.

I'm going to bass pro in a couple of days and will get a bass leader and some stiff tippet. I would have never thought of the line hinging so I cheaked the connection and it was fine. Thanks for the help gentlemen.

no offence taken FISHHEAD, I knew you were just trying to rule out problems. I always make conscious effort to not start my cast with any slack line. I knew the problem was probably in my leader cause with a smaller lighter fly it unrolled quite nice but with the popper it would land in a bundle sometimes or not lay out strait. Thanks for the help. I will post results of performance when I get the time to go wet a line.

Keep us posted and it never happened unless there are photo's. Blue Gills are one of my favorite fish, I like to catch them and then eat them. Most of our ponds and small lakes here have them in over abundance.

Finally got to bass pro and bought 2 tapered leaders and 2 spools of tippet. Will go tomorrow and test the leaders and tippet if it stops raining.

I just use WF4f line and a 10# piece of mono