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USCG has been using the Sig P229 in 40 for the past 10 years or so.

I HATED the Beretta


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Some people do hate the M9... Some people love it.... I own both Beretta and SIG

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Looks like history is repeating itself. I seriously doubt we'll be leaving the 9x19 behind since it's the NATO round. We'd make a lot of our fellow members pretty upset. Of course, they're probably pretty upset with us right now so what's the difference right. I've qualified several times on the M9 and I could take it or leave it. The M11 on the other hand is fantastic. I like it a lot more than the M9. It'd be nice just to switch over to that.
As for another caliber, I don't know where you all are seeing .40 S&Ws break apart and destroy frames and stuff. There are .40s out there with tens of thousands or rounds through them. I've owned several .40 cal plastic fantastics and the recoil is more than manageable. It sounds to me like lots of the old stereotypes are still being played. And the thought that a Glock, M&P or other plastic pistol would have trouble in combat is a little silly. Plastic pistols have been doing a great job in combat for 20+ years. I haven�t shot a Glock enough to wear it out, but I hope to. We�ll see.
All that said, just like the search for a new carbine, this probably won�t go far and Uncle Sam will end up sticking with the 9x19 and renegotiating a new contract with Beretta. But maybe I�m just cynical.

Oh, and one other thing. In reading the Fox article it sounds like a lot of the problems with multiple shots mentioned by that expert come down to training issues. Shot placement is huge. But I imagine that�s easier said than done when bullets care coming back in your direction.

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.40s ARE tough on frames, plastic or aluminum or steel, doesn't matter. I've seen a lot of .40s go belly up, and heard about a lot more, though I didn't see those.

It's a moderate-sized high pressure cartridge that isn't as well suited to the 9mm frame sizes as S&W would have thought. People tend to forget that the early Grock 40s hammered themselves into wrecks, until they made some mods to the frames.

I don't see the US Army going to .40s anyway, it'll probably be another 9mm of some flavor, or back to the .45.
But, it's all for naught if they don't train the troops better, 50 rounds a year ain't gonna get it.


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They can't purchase too much ammo, the kooks will start the chicken little shiet.


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if you are limited to ball ammo which the military is YES the 9mm is not a very good choice. I do think the m9 wasn't that great a choice but it was in a time when semi auto handguns where really transititioning to modern design. when the m9 came out what else was really out there. glock was barely out there and everything else wasn't that reliable or was a revolver, or was a single stack rounds limited 1911.


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IMHO, sidearms are a necessary, but SECONDARY arm for the military. I have no problem with 9mm, and I have been using them
for 50 years. The .45 ACP is probably a better option still...but I don't see them going back to it. How about using a Glock 21? Lets have a modern platform with an older cartridge? 2 cents


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"I don't see the US Army going to .40s anyway, it'll probably be another 9mm of some flavor, or back to the .45."

Perhaps the 45 GAP!
_________

"if you are limited to ball ammo which the military is YES the 9mm is not a very good choice."

I wonder if some kind of round nosed flat point would pass muster with the Hague accord?
____________

"when the m9 came out what else was really out there. glock was barely out there and everything else wasn't that reliable or was a revolver, or was a single stack rounds limited 1911."

The Beretta and Sig finished the trials... the Beretta M9 was then chosen based on cost.

Jerry

Last edited by jerrywoodswalker; 07/05/14.

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Having carried an m-9 for 20 years and the requirement of ball overseas I would prefer a sig P220 45 auto


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If looking at a relatively small number of hardened combat Marines in need of a close quarter combat pistol, something along the lines of a railed 1911 45acp could be very doable.

If looking at a service pistol for all of today�s army, something along the lines of a modular pistol would probably be high on the list of requirements. You see the same thing today in trends with service pistols for LEO agencies who must equip and train a wide swath of personnel, to include those who may be very small in stature with very small hands. Having a modular pistol platform that is simple LEGO-esque plug and play, to quickly snap on and off pieces and parts to change barrel, frame, and/or grip size, may be the order of the day. In addition, terminal bullet performance may be tempered with the overall recoil of the pistol so that it may be easily handled by the smallest and weakest of personnel. Not making predictions, but current pistols such as the M&P and the Sig-250 are marketed to fit such bill. But in the end, what the army selects as ideal for their needs, will likely be different than ideal for use in CQB by a smaller group of hardened Marines.


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Just stating facts. smile


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In the current theatre of combat, where we are not fighting a "nation's army", wouldn't it just make sense to start issuing JHPS for all small arms?



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In the current theatre of combat, where we are not fighting a "nation's army", wouldn't it just make sense to start issuing JHPS for all small arms?

Very good point. I am surprised neither of our last two commander in chief's have issued an executive order to that effect.

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Well. Obama would tather we shoot marshmallows and rainbows at them


The government plans these shootings by targeting kids from kindergarten that the government thinks they can control with drugs until the appropriate time--DerbyDude


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Originally Posted by Dave_in_WV
Just stating facts. smile


That's the story I heard. Beretta slightly underbid SIG when extra magazines and other parts were included in the second round of bidding. In troop trials I don't know which was preferred. The USAF originally tried to buy Beretta to replace their revolvers. Then Congress intervened and the Army had the selection process.

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Originally Posted by MedfordOR
In the current theatre of combat, where we are not fighting a "nation's army", wouldn't it just make sense to start issuing JHPS for all small arms?

Very good point. I am surprised neither of our last two commander in chief's have issued an executive order to that effect.


Agreed!!! That'd be the smartest and best improvement for the money!

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Originally Posted by idahoguy101
Originally Posted by Dave_in_WV
Just stating facts. smile


That's the story I heard. Beretta slightly underbid SIG when extra magazines and other parts were included in the second round of bidding. In troop trials I don't know which was preferred. The USAF originally tried to buy Beretta to replace their revolvers. Then Congress intervened and the Army had the selection process.


The AF was set to switch back to the 1911 with a 4" barrel and an officer's model frame to be done in house by the AF at Lackland AFB. Hornady developed the flat nose ball bullet for the AF. Then the 9mm BS got started. NATO wanted the US to switch to the 9mm. Congress at first said no then two members of congress, one from NY and one from MD got involved and somehow got the 9mm back on the floor. Beretta USA is or was in NY and the Berettas were assembled in MD. I don't believe in coincidence!


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I've heard that the custom shop at Lackland made a terrific custom M1911 for the Office of Special Investigations plain clothes people. But only we're talking 1-2K OSI people.

Not the equipping the whole Air Force. That means 100,000 pistols to replace the assorted 38 Special revolvers then in service.

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Originally Posted by tex_n_cal
No way it will be a 1911, even though it's a better choice than the M9. My bet will be either the HK45, or the P227.

Much as we all like the 1911, it's going to be hard for any military officer to walk up to a Congresscritter or bureaucrat and say, we want a 103 year old design smirk even if they say it's "reimagined" or whatever smile


The USMC went back to the .45 ACP in a 1911 platform a couple of years ago: http://www.gunsandammo.com/2012/07/20/colt-awarded-contract-from-u-s-marine-corps/

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A wise move.



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