Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Africa Cost wise Africa vs. American Elk ?

Greenhorn IS the real deal, and I said that repeatedly. Fish, spot on.

You can be the "real deal' without being an insufferable, condescending know-it-all that spits sour grapes at everybody else. I can envy a guy who has the time and the locale to scout, to set up camps, and to hunt extensively. Sounds like fun, but don't rain on my parade because you can do it your way and I do it my way. I've made a lot friends and many good memories "paying" to hunt.

Yup, agree with both you and Jorge in that regard.

I can hunt elk on my own property, for both bulls and cows without being drawn. Big whoop-di-doo. Hunting is 90% location and 10% everything else.

The best and most successful hunters will find and gain access to the best areas available to him. That might be by walking his tail off, or by just buying the place, or researching and travelling to the best States, provinces and zones. It could be as simple as an accident of birth, or a willingness to beg for access.

Just like fishing, an average fisherman will do great on a great lake. Likely better than a "great" fisherman on a poor lake or at a bad time. You have to wonder just how "great" the guy actually is if he's in the wrong place at the wrong time to begin with.

I can take a Bull and a Cow on Public land in Colorado for less than $2,000 if I don't mount the bull, split gas/cabin rental and do my own butchering.

I make the trip every year with a regular group and average a little better than an animal a year with some 2 animal years and some zeros. I'm running low in the freezer right now but hope to re-stock in early November.

So Africa isn't one elk trip for me it is at least 4 in trade. But I'm planning to make at least one plains game trip before I call it quits. The wife can tag along on a South African ranch hunt so it would be a nice change for her - no way would she enjoy 15 degrees and blowing snow at 8000' after a 2 mile climb.

The difference is that instead of maybe getting an elk some years you will almost certainly take somewhere between 5 and a dozen animals. They may not be the ones you set out for, or something you've heard of before. Your best trophies may not be for the animals you wanted the most. Your most vivid memories may not even be hunting related.

Take your wife, some of my most memorable hunts are the ones my wife came with me.

very true. My wife and I just got back. She had a ball.
she killed 4 animals, I killed 7. she was a trooper. hiked the hills. walked, ran, crawled, slid her way through the bushes, thorns, and mud and killed a zebra, impala, blesbok, and caracal.
I was more proud of her kills than mine.

I guess it depends on what one's priorities are.

There are people who'd rather have 55K new truck instead of decent used vehicle. Or spend the $$$ on new bass boat.

Or have one dozen or two dozen "deer" rifles, half dozen shotguns, etc.

Ever go out skeet or trap shooting? Some of those guys are shooting over/under shotguns that could easily pay for an African safari. Plus they usually have a decent collection of them to boot!

It's just what are your priorities and what important to you in most circumstances.

I've know a few hunters who due to lack of upland birds hunting or only able to harvest one big game a year (whitetail) that have taken up competitive shooting sports such as high power or 3-gun. Or as mentioned previous have become addicted to trap or skeet.

Others rather varmint and predator hunt as the seasons are generally longer and one can get more shooting in one year than in life time of big game hunting (perhaps exaggerating a little but not by much)

Here's couple bulls some insufferable dick and his son nailed last fall to the tune of about $50 in MT. Apparently this dick "hate anyone who's hunted Africa"

The salami and brats cost a bit to have done, but I'm still eating it. along with meat from about a dozen other animals we brought home on weekend trips last fall with our sub $200 license budget in Montana. My twelve year old arrowed a 6X6 bull at 2 yards, nailed a stud pronghorn buck, 2 tom turkeys, a 6.5' black bear, and a 5X5 whitetail, not to mention some upland birds and fishing. Montana safari is tough to beat, but I'm sure Africa is better for some like hatari and Jorgi.





Best wishes.

Not that it matters but here is what I said:



You are one HELL of a hunter, I've always said that, I don't think I've ever seen anyone here as successful as you and you are indeed fortunate to live where you do, but your views on ALL who hunt Africa, and the way you express it, I think I described it well. That said, congratulations again to you and your son.

Exact nail on the head. It is about one's priorities and what floats their boat. I had a close friend who makes a great deal more than I ask me how I could afford to buy a piece of land that I had bought. I answered "you don't really want to know, it will hurt your feelings. Think about it before you make me tell you." A month later she demanded I tell her.
We went down their budget:
1. Vehicles- Them- $1300/mo for 2 new ones.
Us- $0. We always paid cash for used.
2. Eating out- Them- ate out almost every night- her figures once added up for the good meals and junk meals..Over $2k/month
Us- less than $200/month. much less.
3. Vacations- They did 4 per year....them- over $20K per year
Us- about $1K per year, some years..lol.
4. Sports- them- spent well over $10K for LSU weekends.
Us- Watched our team on TV.

I told her "I could go thru the rest of your budget, but she looked like she was in shock and teary looking. Then I dropped the bomb on her. I told her I was paying $610 per month for the cabin/100 acres of hunting land. Less than the price of 1 of their car payments.

Today? We still drive 2 decent looking but older car and truck. We still don't go out to eat much. We still don't throw money away. Now, though, we do a big vacation every year and we can afford stuff and have stuff that they still can't because they spent 20 years spending their money on expendables. oh well.

Big element of men/women here in the USA who want to cut to the chase and buy the outdoor experience. That's fine. They have money and they use that money to try to get a similar experience as someone who has put in their time/effort to master the outdoors. Guys like me make a good living catering those wanting to buy the experience, and we give them that experience.

When things become muddled is when those who buy the expertise and hard work of others forget that they are in fact buying it.

You cannot compare a DIY hunt to a guided hunt. The guide can compare it, but the client cannot.

I might have a odd sense of humor and poking fun is one thing, but I certainly don't "hate" anybody for how they choose to recreate.

When you live half a continent away (or a hemisphere), it's hard to do all that one needs to in order to put in their time and effort to do the research, learn the area, do the scouting in order "to mater the outdoors". I have "mastered the outdoors" with almost every type of hunting experience in Mississippi and want to see and experience more.
I am a pharmacist and a preacher. Between my 2 professions, it leaves little time to actually pack up and go hunt. I sure don't have time to run to Idaho 7 or 8 times to scout before I come to hunt for a week.
I've been to Africa twice now. At no time did it ever cross my mind that I killed 11 animals on an 8 day hunt this year because of my hunting skill. that would be silly. Without a doubt, I know that if I was told "Here's the land and boundaries and a topo map. Go hunt." I know I could have been successful hunting something. But certainly I would not have taken (with my wife) 11 quality animals. that would be absurd to even say.
It's like Marius said "I'm a PH, I'm supposed to be able to do this better than you. I do it 270 days a year. You're a pharmacist and preacher and I sure couldn't do that at all."

Not pointed at you or anyone in particular, but for someone to demean or belittle someone else for hiring a guide when they live across the continent from the hunting area is an example of jackassedness.

You are correct, "hate" is an often misused word and I am guilty of that misuse. How about "disdain", for the term "Africa Clowns" is pretty clear. j

Saw my Rhodesian/Zim expat buddy John Tolmay yesterday. Born and raised in Rhodesia, he was a PH for some 30 years before he was forced out by Mugabe. He now lives in North Carolina and is a marvelous bronze artist.

I asked John how he was doing, and his reply was a sincere "I've got to get back to Africa!". He needed a fix, so to speak. The allure of African hunting to many of us is not the game or the hunting per se, it is Africa. Difficult to convey to those who have never been.

I think you'll like his website:

Bronze Africa
http://www.bronzeafrica.com/

More like mockery. And get it right.. it was "safari clowns".

It bothers some with thin skin. Here's the thread..

http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/4350519/1

oops, sorry.

So you have not hunted Africa I see

What I don't get is why some people apparently look down on guided hunts and hunters--even some people who are guides.

I've been hunting big game for 48 years now. Was born and raised here in Montana so had plenty of public land to hunt, and also some private before anybody ever thought of leasing hunting rights. I've hunted all over the world now, but my wife and I still hunt public land in Montana every year, along with some private. We've taken whitetails, mule deer, pronghorns, elk, moose, black bear and bighorn sheep on DIY, public-land hunts, everything from eating meat to some very good trophies. Have also guided here in Montana, both on public and private land, both informally for friends and formally for a couple of different outfitters, helping other people who for whatever reason couldn't or didn't want to do it themselves, and never felt like putting them down for "cutting to the chase," or because they didn't do the whole thing on their own.

Have also hunted DIY/public in other states and Canada, but haven't in some other places I wanted to hunt, mostly because of laws requiring a guide, or logistical problems of getting on the ground. Didn't feel the slightest bit of guilt at "cutting to the chase."

Hunters used to be able to hunt DIY in a lot of Africa, and still can in a very few places. Hunters used to be able to go to South Africa and find a place to hunt on their own pretty easily, just by contacting landowners, but like Texas there isn't much public hunting land (maybe none) and they had to pay for any game killed, since it legally belongs to the landowner, and is considered a profitable part of owning land, since the meat can be sold to butcher shops and restaurants. I believe you can still do the same in parts of Europe, though getting a hunting license can be tough.

We were lucky enough to draw a few permits for more common big game here in Montana this year, and as a result will be hunting birds in September on public land partly to scout for big game. Will also be hunting private ground in November for deer, because a landowner friend invited us. Might get an urge to go hunt something I'd have to pay for, either in access or guide fees, though don't have any plans at the moment. Don't feel particularly special or guilty about any of it, perhaps because I've been doing it all for a long time, so don't know why some people have to make a big deal of either.