Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Africa Cost wise Africa vs. American Elk ?

I don't look down on them, especially in a place like Africa where you pretty much have to use a guide or not hunt. Seems like hunting with a good guide there would be a big part of the experience.

And I don't look down on someone who wants to spend $15K on a guided private land elk hunt. Some of those guys save up a long time for that, and it's literally the hunt of a lifetime for them. And when they're telling the story, they don't leave out the part about the guide, and give the guide the credit he deserves. Who am I to find fault with that?

However, I do believe that bagging the same bull (or buck) on your own, on a public land DIY hunt is much more of a personal accomplishment. And much more to be proud of. And some guys will leave out the part about the guide, or the part about paying to hunt a high-fenced South Texas ranch for a genetically-manipulated and spoon fed "monster buck." To me, that's nothing to brag about. I think that's the source of the disdain.

I can agree with the first, as well as the second. That said, they should differentiate between a fenced hunt like that, and a hard hunted buffalo in the Dande North region of Zimbabwe, where there are no guarantees.

What I don't understand is why everyone cares so much about what others are doing. I've never viewed hunting as a competitive sport.

Fost: it's the nature of the internet. Want a great example? take a look at my seemingly innocuous post about a rifle I made up for my son and I made the HORRIBLE mistake of getting it in 3006!

I notice that the "bang for buck" comparison outlined by many is what you get in numbers/variety of dead animals per number of days and what you pay in thousands of dollars to somebody else to coordinate the adventure. Telling is the price break down using a guided Vermajo Park elk hunt as the comparison. Am I the only guy that finds the humor here?

I'm penciling out 3 non-resident elk hunts that I'll be doing in the next 5-7 years. All better than Vermajo Park, and all well under the OP's cheapest alternative in the first post. Go figure.

Not everyone that loves hunting is perfectly fit and/or between 20-45 years old with Montana or Alaska as their backyard playground.

They may not be fit enough to pack in a camp and set everything up (or have the necessary gear!), or even have the skills to manage the logistics of an out of state DIY hunt...especially if the only time available to do this is maybe ONCE a year.

Is it somehow unethical for an individual without the same hunting opportunities as those out West or in Alaska to utilize a guide?? Or to be ridiculed, looked down upon, and sneered at? Should they be denied all hunting because they can't walk out the door and DIY?

I think MD pretty much covered nailed it as you have Fost. I have a good friend who lives in Montana near Thompson Falls and is strictly a recurve bow hunter. He has some spectacular trophies and he admits he hunts hard for them, but even he admits living in Montana makes things a lot easier. My wife and I are going up there in October to scout out a possible retirement place. Anyhow, location is a huge component. Just ask anyone who lives in Africa and hunts. They were taking from lions to buffalo before their teens. Bottom line is in MY opinion when it comes to variety, Africa has no equal, and some of us hunt there because WE CAN.

No I don't see your humor.......I have hunted Vermajo and the T-O they would be hard to beat but good luck....btw they were used as an apples to apples comparison.....meals lodging ect ect......and now I have also done a 10 day PG hunt

Go to Africa and DYI........TFF

BTW......I also hunt Colorado public DIY walk in each year I can draw

Who said anything about being "unethical?"

You guys are talking past each other. What it all boils down to is why you hunt and what you want to get out of it. And how important it is to you.

For some guys, it's important enough to make the choice to live where there's good hunting. They can't imagine why someone else would choose to live where they can't hunt like they want, and then complain about being far away from good hunting.

That's not a knock either.

For some guys, hunting is all about the challenge and solving the problem themselves. Whether it be the logistics of an out-of-state hunt, figuring out where the elk are and how to get on them, or just being in good enough shape to get far from the road where the trophies are. They can't imagine turning that responsibility over to someone else because that would take away the reason they hunt.

I'm not making a case one way or the other, that's just how I see it.

Makes them feel superior,and magnifies their own accomplishments.A/k/a "ego".

Much of the din comes from Up North and Out West.If you live and hunt in the Great Western States,and aren't filling freezers and hanging racks on the wall, you're not trying very hard.

They like DIY? I got one for them. Come back east and go whitetail hunting north of Bangor, DIY.

I give them 5 years.If they see a whitetail buck in the 140 range they can stop by on the way back and I'll pay for dinner.And not at a cheap place either.

If they kill two in that time frame (2 because anyone can get "lucky")....I'll pay for the hunt.

My money is safe.

Point taken Bob, but I'm not sure why a guy from say Montana would want to spend time and energy traveling back east to hunt a place where they'd be lucky to see a decent deer, when they can hunt in-state.

I'd jump at the chance to hunt Africa, if I could do it next year. I'm jumping up and down to go hunting again this year. I don't think of them as 'multispecies' hunts, but that's what they are here in the west. It has been the exception that I've only had one tag when a season started. I've hunted three states over the last 32 years in the west. It is in my blood, my bones to roam around mountains, enduring what has to be, and digging all the rest. I feel grateful, not because I get to do what others can't, but because I get to. I don't know how much longer that will be the case, as the health issues mount more rapidly than I'd have imagined.

Some locals out here do it hard and do it right, but most just go out to shoot the first thing they can legally take. At popular elk crossings along roads, it's not uncommon to see a couple dozen elk 'hunters' sitting in their trucks drinking coffee. I couldn't do that, because that isn't why I do it. I do my share of road hunting, but not for elk, because I haven't seen elk near a road in years. There are lots of ways to hunt elk, and some are far less sporting than an African ranch hunt.

I've enjoyed this thread. I've not hunted anywhere beyond the western states, and I appreciate more perspectives than mine. It seems like to deep truth for all of us here is that we enjoy hunting, and the where, what, and how much are just new things to reach for, to dream about.

Please, come West. Hire guides, or not. Don't either/or Africa or Elk. Do both. There is a beauty here that is unspeakable, game or not. Some of you know all about it.

smokepole,

I'm one western hunter who's hunted not just whitetails but turkeys on public land in the East, and in several states. I did it partly because I'm a hunting writer, and wanted to see how conditions vary across the country so I can provide more realistic advice. But I also did it because I have friends across the country and like to spend time with them, both hunting and hanging out. Of course, some of the same people have hunted out here with me, and were blown away by the relative abundance of both game and public land.

But none of North America compares to the abundance of Africa, and I'm not talking about fenced ranches. I've hunted wild Africa several times, and it's as much different from hunting in Montana as Montana is from hunting the eastern U.S. I also find it baffling how many people who obviously love wild country and wild animals don't feel the slightest pull toward Africa, still the most diverse collection of truly wild country and game left on the planet, despite too many people causing wild Africa to shrink more every year.

Me too. Don't leave out the Midwest though.



Like I said, it's all in what you want to get out of it. And where your priorities are.

I'd like to see Africa, and I also wouldn't mind hunting on private land like Vermejo Park. Or doing a brown bear hunt in coastal Alaska. I'm just not going to plunk down $15K for the privilege.

It's not that I can't afford it, just that none are that high on my list. I'd rather hunt elk or pronghorns close to home, and do it on my own.

I find it baffling that you find find it baffling that other people have different priorities. There are almost as many different reasons to hunt as there are hunters.

ego? well, when they can do THIS:



THEN they can talk ego

Seriously, I am impressed by these guys that hunt these huge animals DIY

smokepole,

Oh, I freely admit that my non-understanding of other hunters' non-curiosity about the wild outside of their own corner of the world isn't rational. And I also freely admit that my priorities are obviously different than most people's. Despite having hunted Cape buffalo a few times, I'd rather hunt wild pheasants--which would probably baffle most other hunters. (At this stage of my life I might even say the same thing about elk--but will hunt both elk and pheasants this fall.)

It also baffles me that some hunters NEVER hunt their own states, instead traveling elsewhere for ALL their hunting. One of these is a well-known writer who'd never "stoop" to hunting whitetails anywhere--and has no interest in elk hunting. But he's a good friend and I do understand that's his deal.

By the way, I have hunted both public and private land in the Midwest. In fact I've hunted over half the states and provinces in the U.S. and Canada, and even hunted deer in several other countries. But once again, I admit my compulsions are probably baffling to others.

John: This past February Hatari invited Pugs and I to an upland bird hunt near his place in Georgia. I had not been bird hunting in over 20 years, and at the end of the day, I can say understand what you said about your pheasant hunting! j

I am to understand that learning a night trap is not a DIY thing???

Probably not public land, either....