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I am having a problem...trying to neck down 22 Hornet brass to 17 AI and am crushing the cases. I thought that simply necking down the 22 Hornet one pass through the 17 AI dies would get me there. Obviously I am missing something here. This is new to me as I am normally reloading big game rifles, but this 17 Hornet AI caught my eye. There does not seem to be any formed brass readily available. Any ideas, tips and instruction would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
John
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I suspect the thin walls are prone to buckling. 30 deg shoulder squeeze doesn't help. Run in a 17 Rem die first? It has a 23 deg shoulder.
You using lotsa lube like Imperial on the outside of the neck walls?
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Ok, I am using standard spray on case lube at this point as that is what I have on hand. Will the finished case length be proper? Do I need to trim them shorter? Thanks for the help.
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For me it's one pass through the 17AH neck die, RCBS. I've done literally a couple thousand of them. But it it doesn't seem to work like that for everyone. Some dies work ok, some don't. Depends on the particular die.....maybe how smooth it is, maybe one die has a slightly larger radius at the neck/shoulder? Definitely use a burr removal tool on the outside of the casemouth, put a bevel on that edge. I've also used the MachIV trim die which necks to .20 as an intermediate step. The final case comes out slightly longer doing it that way which is good, but I don't bother. Or get a double ended die from Bullberry that'll take it from .22 to .17.
One thing. I clean dies very thoroughly, then use q-tip and apply teflon lube to the whole inside. Then clean that. The inside is slick but not wet.
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A couple of things to try. Trim Hornet brass to the 17AI min length. Remove seating stem from your seating die lube case well and run into seating die, replenish lube and try running into full length sizing die. If that works your done.But if cases don't collapse when run into seating die but continue to collapse when run into sizing die do this. Take the case that has been run through the seating die and try chambering in your rifle it should chamber ok and if it does then prime the case add about 2 to 3 gr of Bullseye or similar fast burning powder, carefully fill case with uncooked cream of wheat to within about 1/4 inch of top of neck make a small wad of tp or paper towel and top off with that to help hold every thing together. carefully load into rifle with muzzle pointed up to help prevent spilling and fire, some adjustment to the powder charge may be needed to get fully formed cases. Seems like a lot of work and a waste of primers and powder but may be the best route to go to keep from ruining brass. Good luck.
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A couple of things to try. Trim Hornet brass to the 17AI min length. Remove seating stem from your seating die lube case well and run into seating die, replenish lube and try running into full length sizing die. If that works your done.But if cases don't collapse when run into seating die but continue to collapse when run into sizing die do this. Take the case that has been run through the seating die and try chambering in your rifle it should chamber ok and if it does then prime the case add about 2 to 3 gr of Bullseye or similar fast burning powder, carefully fill case with uncooked cream of wheat to within about 1/4 inch of top of neck make a small wad of tp or paper towel and top off with that to help hold every thing together. carefully load into rifle with muzzle pointed up to help prevent spilling and fire, some adjustment to the powder charge may be needed to get fully formed cases. Seems like a lot of work and a waste of primers and powder but may be the best route to go to keep from ruining brass. Good luck. I had an Anschutz many years ago and I fireformed all my brass in the garage, minus bullets!! 
_______________________________________________________
An 8 dollar driveway boy living in a T-111 shack
LOL
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A little addition:
1) Don't trim cases. They'll shorten anyway when necked down and formed. They don't need to be any shorter.
2) Lube the neck when necking down but nevermind the case body, it doesn't come close to touching the die.
3)) Forming with cream o wheat is a lot of work and waste of everything. I fireformed 2,000 cases. Each of them with a bullet. Except for load workup on paper, every one of those bullets was accurate and deadly on a varmint.
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Big, MD has a good article in the last "handloader" that goes through it step by step-Muddy
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Gentlemen,
Thanks for the advise, I will give the a try this evening. Some good ideas.
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i use the double ended form die from Bullberry; takes hornets down in 2 steps..... last batch i formed, think i lost 7 pcs out of 500 formed.
fireforming loads shot well. never trimmed before necking down.
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QB Dave,
I must admit I had never heard of running the brass into the seating die. But nothing else was working so I tried it. Took out the seating die plug and ran the brass into the seating die. This started sizing the neck but still would not chamber. Took them back through the sizing die, gently, and I formed about 50 good cases. Fired formed a couple with 4 grains of Bulseye (needed to go to 4 in order to get the wrinkles out) with a wad of tissue pushed down onto the powder, worked great.
Thanks to the others as well for your help. Looks after about a year of that rifle sitting int the vault, it will now see some action.
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Big, BTW where are you getting 22 Hornet brass? I need more.-Muddy
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Muddy,
Found them here just recently in the classifieds. They are older and a little brittle and probably some of the reason I have had such trouble.
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Big, glad it worked for you. I had to go to the other extreme more work but solved my problems. As hard as brass is to find you may want to aneal your cases before using them much be a shme to have some crack or worse.
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I have necked down thousands of 22 hornet straight to 17 hornet to be fire formed to the 17 AH.
I put a very heavy chamfer on the outside of the neck. This is the big bug a boo that kills the necking down process if you don't get it right. That HEAVY chamfer acts as a guide and helps start the case neck in the smaller neck portion of the die.
Second, I lube with the WHITE Lee sizing wax, it is better than anything else out there. The lube is so good, that I cut it 50/50 with water and used it to make bullets with, and nothing will test a lube like swaging bullet jackets.
When I start the case into the full length sizer, I go slow, and set the headspace for a very slight jam on the shoulder.
It is rare to ever loose a case forming down with the process above. I have used Winchester cases, no particular good reason.
I never used bullseye and cream of wheat to form cases, I just worked up a fire forming load and went out to the fields and shot ground squirrels or p. dogs.
Last edited by keith; 07/09/14.
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muddy22,
The discussion here is about making .17 Hornet Ackley Improved cases. My article described making .17 Hornady Hornet cases from .22 Hornet, which is a different problem, mostly because the case is shorter than the .22 Hornet, and necking down involves getting into the thick shoulder are of the .22 Hornet case, which creates extra problems.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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Judd,
No problem, just thought you'd like to know!
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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John, I should have, I read your article. BTW too hot to go fishin unless we wade wet, 103 here on Sun.-Muddy
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Step number 1: Anneal all your brass. Step #2: Lube and run thru your sizing steps. Step #3: Anneal again just before fire forming. Step #4: Load up 10-30 rounds to your main/ fireform charge, and fire them into target of choice. Step #5: Load up those same 10-30 rounds, to your test/ full load and fire into target of your choice. If no neck splits...Good, repeat all steps above. If you get any neck splits after step #5, you should anneal all your brass again after fire forming (step #4.) 
Last edited by lanenebraska; 07/11/14.
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