Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Winchester Collectors price check: 1952 model 70 in 35 whelen

All parts are there, standard model in good shape, 85% wood/metal, no alterations, factory stamped barrel/chambering. Does anyone have an idea what to offer? Past sale prices? I don't see this chambering very often.

Appreciated in advance,

I don't think they ever made a 35 Whelen in the pre 64 model 70. As far as I know, the first factory made 35 whelen was introduced in 1987 (by Remington in their 700 Classic). Even though the "wildcat" cartridge was developed by Col. Townsend Whelen in 1922. I'd like to see pics of your "factory stamped barrel/chambering" 1952 model 70. What you have is more than likely a re-barreled rifle..

Here was one, at least...
http://www.liveauctionworld.com/Pre...lt-Action-Carbine-in-35-Whelen_i19367549

I don't know how much the transition action and auction process influence price/value.

I am also a little hesitant to buy a gun just to have in the safe, but if it is a solid investment, I will regret missing out.

I would pass on it. Have no idea on value because my guess is that it is a fake. Not 100% sure, but 99%.

There was a thread in this forum in early May discussing this and other "professionally refinished" M70's in uncatalogued chamberings at the May RIA auction. Personally, would have no regrets missing out on this gun.

I have studied this model for many decades now and have to agree with fellow responders. The chance this is original is extremely slim. But never say never where Winchesters are the topic. I saw one in 405 Winchester at the Cody Winchester Collectors show. Winchester would try about anything once or twice. But there are a great many high quality fakes around. I knew a gunsmith with enormous talent that spent his career faking Marlin Marauders and would turn any abused Winchester that arrived at his shop into a "factory" high grade gun with superb engraving and wood.

Here is the rest of the story.



https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbth.../1/Price_Check_1952_model_70_fact#UNREAD

Like others I'd be leary of any of these "professionaly refinished" guns in rare calibers. Another thing that bothers me about the rifle in the link is that it says the rifle's front bridge is drilled and tapped yet it still has a type 1 safety.

I've always wanted a P64 M70 in 35 Whelen. I figured I would find an "06 in so-so shape and put a new barrel on it. The OP says the one he is looking at the guy is asking $1900, at that price I would be very interested in it even if it's not original.

Buy it reelman....

That'd be a dream to own a Pre64 35 Whelen. Talk about oozing cool!

Very cool (no doubt), but a 99.9% chance it is faked. If not, it better damn well have some documentation with it proving it is original. Usually your first hunch is right...

Oh yeah. I meant a build of a Pre64 into a 35 Whelen. I agree, slim chance of a real Whelen Pre64. Not a huge surprise though, the Whelen wasn't standardized till the 80's was it?

Yep, 1987 in the Remington 700 classic... I agree though: A whelen, or even one of my favorites (the 9.3x62mm) would be skookum for sure..

This is going to sound funny, but did you guys see the person on ebay advertising "NEW" pre 64 model 70 barrels in every configuration imaginable. His buy it now price was $1,000.00. This was a while back when I saw the auction (maybe 5 months ago), but I think he got shut down pretty fast. I haven't seen him there since. He said he could turn out a perfect factory barrel in any chambering. You name it, he could do it. Seemed very strange/illegal to me, but there are guys out there still doing this..

Reelman,

Now its 1425.00...

http://alaskaslist.com/1/posts/9_General/63_Guns_Hunting/368997_Winchester_Model_70_35_Whelen_.html

Again, I haven't seen it, but am working on the assumption that it is this rifle, previously sold in AK: https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbth...s/8511340/For_Sale_Winchester_Model_70_i

FWIW-

You are probably right. Hunthard goes through a lot of rifles. Obviously, the rifle that Tim bought was a re-bore (to 35 Whelen) and priced accordingly ($900.00).. The other place is foolishly/ignorantly trying to sell it as an original when it's not.

No pics in the link, but I bet that rifle looks very familiar. The caliber markings were very well done, but couldn't be mistaken for factory by someone familiar with pre64s. If it is the same gun, it says a lot about the seller.

If I bought it I would look and price it as a custom built on a pre 64 action. Great cal. Im willing to bet it has a fantastic Lothar Walthar barrel. I also doubt it was built to pass as a factory counterfeit, just a nice custom using the original 'dog knot 'profile. A lot of smiths do not like Lothar Walther as they are so hard and require a special technique to work. I have used,shot 2 of theses barrels that were hummer accurate, limit factor was nut behind trigger. very best Winpoor

I know a guy who has a pre 64 whelen, but again it suffers for the same problem of no provinance. I have been round and round on this gun, and as I see it there are only two ways it could be orginal. One as said here it is a custom order form winchester, or two and I think this far more likely. It was a recalled 35 remington and some very smart individual had it rechambered into 35 whelen. I still want one but the price these guys are asking are just way too high for gun that while way cool, is just to hard to confirm.

I'm not aware of any 35 Rem recall. They recalled the 358Win but all of those would be in the Featherweight configuration. I have one ot these that was rechambered to 350 Rem Mag but no attempt to conceal it not being original was made.

The Whelen is a fake....

That I wouldn't doubt for a second.First tip off for me is "professionally refurbished". If that Whelen carbine had factory documentation it would be worth about $20,000.No one ould be selling it for $3k if it were real,refinished or not.



But some odd stuff came through the Winchester Custom shop.Then as now, there were lots of rifle nuts who were never satisfied with anything standard;seemed the custom shop would build what you wanted.

Mentioned this before, but over a decade ago I walked into a high end gun store and saw a pre war standard grade in 405 Winchester with factory documentation. It was one of two and no one knew where the second one was.I was still skeptical but looked it up in Rule,and it is footnoted somewhere in there.

For awhile I owned an original Super Grade 264 standard weight that I bought cheap because no one thought it was real, but only because it was not supposed to have been made(they never cataloged a SG 264 WM). But the guy who owned it was just a NH gun buyer who owned it a long time,and had no incentive to fabricate a phony. He was also dead when I bought it.I suspected it was a CS rifle.

Then, sure enough, I saw a picture of one in Whittaker's book.So you never know what they cranked out on request.It's what makes collecting interesting but it's all too treacherous for me.

BobNH, I bet that is one of those'I wish I still had' Winchesters! I have been told by an old 'BIG' hardware store owner that the Winchester sales rep could get darn near anything you wanted done. very best winpoor

Bob, SG's are easy to "fake" by just changing out the stock and floorplate. IMO if it's "fake" it's still worth about $1000 more than if it was a standard grade because the stock and floorplate can just as easily be changed back to original and the SG parts can be sold for about $1000. I have a 250/3000 SG carbine that is impossible to determine if it's an original SG or not but I still don't consider it a cheap gun, I consider it worth about $1000 more than standard carbine.

Also remember that there are many different eras of stocks so if you know what you're looking at you can't just throw any pre-war SG stock on a standard as there are several different Pre-war SG stock patterns. a 1940 rifle with a late 40's SG stock is a dead give away.

True, i'm in Alaska and relatively young to be into guns as much as I am. Most of the guys around here are 15 to 20 years my senior, but I still see people selling winchesters who have no idea weather they have a gem, or a piece of junk and it doesn't matter in their opinion because all pre 64 are worth at least 1000 according to them. The guy I was talking about who owns a whelen, has a mid fifths serial number with a early 60's stock pattern, it was right before the change and they started shrinking the checkering pattern, and I believe using either impressed checking or machine cut checking, but I don't remember its been a while since I have cracked Mr Rule's book. Someone asked a question a few posts back and about if it was the 35 Remington or 358 winchester was recalled. I think it was 35 Remington because it has that weird rebated rim and short case which caused extracting problems if memory serves.

AK I don't remember anything on 35 Rem recall but I know the 358's were recalled. Did they even make enough 35 Rem to worry about a recall? I'm guessing well under 100 were made in 35 Rem in all variations.

In Rule's book I believe he has photos of a Winchester M54 9X57MM that was rechambered to 35 Whelen by the custom shop.

reelman like I said collecting is too treacherous for me .

I have picked up a couple of "users" recently that are clean and functional,and those are the one's that make me happy.

Winchester Poor, yes that is one of many I wished I had kept....it was stupid accurate!

I'm like Bob. I stay away from the real "treacherous" ones. I enjoy the hell out of the "shooters" I have in the collection. The way I see it is, anything really rare, better have documentation to back it up or there's a good chance it's not original..