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Joined: Nov 2013
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Campfire Tracker
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OP
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I just purchased my first 223 AI and stumbled on to a post of Steve Timm's while looking for load data that says once fired brass doesn't fireform well in the ackley. Who has experience with this? I was hoping to use 1x fired LC brass in my new rifle but don't want to waste the brass if it won't work out well. I would like to hear from anyone with expedience fireforming 223 Ai brass and also any load data would be great. Thanks
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Joined: Oct 2002
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 96,121 |
I've had it not work worth a shiet before, but virgin worked like a charm.
"Dear Lord, save me from Your followers"
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Campfire Tracker
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OP
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thanks Steelhead,
I would like to get some of your 223 Ai load data, I have an 8 twist and I'm looking for any data for 50 to 75 grain bullets
BTW, your help some time ago with 6x45 data was very helpful and much appreciated. My son and I have really enjoyed shooting that round and now he has a Virginia legal big game rifle that doesn't knock the piss out of him
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Joined: Dec 2006
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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I have had no issue with once fired brass fireforming. None. I use primarily Winchester brass, all once (or more) fired, but I have cycled through a bunch of LC and Remington brass.
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Joined: Jan 2003
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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I picked up a bunch of federal xm 193 cases at the last school I taught at. I use it to make 300 blackout and 223AI. haven't had any problems other than it has the additional step to get rid of the primer crimp.
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Joined: Jan 2001
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 30,747 |
Currently on my 2nd 223AI tube...ran the first one around 9200 rds...a 12 twist...last summer I changed out the barrel it a 28" 9 twist...I still only shoot 53 V max & 55 NBT's...p/dogs being the target...if I want to shoot a 80-90 gr bullet I'll use a 6BR or 6XC...fireforming brass was never an issue...run a full nuts standard 223 load and seat bullet into the lands...my brass inventory includes Win..Lapua & LC...for me normal 223 powders include H4895..Benchmark & IMR8208...I can safely push the 53 moly V to 3500-3600 fps...this one is built on Salvage s/shot action...no I do not carry it....
T R U M P W O N !
U L T R A M A G A !
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Joined: Dec 2006
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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I forgot to mention that I am getting 3500fps out of a 17" barrel. So far, with the AI, I have found no reason to ever own another standard 223 bolt gun.
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Campfire Tracker
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I have FF thousands of once fired LC brass, with no problems.
Guns don't kill people, drivers with cell phones kill people.
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Campfire Tracker
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Problems occur when you try to fire weak loads fire forming in the once fired LC brass.
Work up a load using once fired lake city brass, standard Kiss, find pressure technique and don't be surprised when the load ends up being over max for 223 loads in your fire forming loads.
You should expect excellent accuracy fire forming, and use a thick cup primer in all your 223 AI loads or burn holes in your bolt face. CCI 450's, Tula Mag primers(get them while you can), 7 1/2's, and CCI BR-4's are your thick cup primers.
I use IMI, Lake City, Rem, and Win brass...223 AI does not care, shoots little bitty holes with all of them.
It does care if you seat the bullet to touch the lands or into the lands.
Stomp on the the gas!
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Joined: Dec 2008
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 78,300 |
Am I the only one that scrounges the bench for bullets and powder I no longer use, and do my fire forming with that�middle of the charts loads�..?
"...the left considers you vermin, and they'll kill you given the chance..." Bristoe
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Campfire Tracker
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Thanks Again guys. Ingwe, I was thinking in a similar manner to you. I found several boxes of 52 grain hornadys that are so old I was surprised moths didn't fly out when I opened the boxes. They are probably gonna be my fireform bullets.
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Joined: Dec 2008
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 78,300 |
Just follow load recommendation for that weight bullet in the 223 and you'll be golden. I never ran into a problem doing this, but I must say accuracy of fire forming loads is hit or miss�.so to speak
"...the left considers you vermin, and they'll kill you given the chance..." Bristoe
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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I dont...I load good loads, with good bullets for fireforming. My AI shoots just as well fireforming as not, so why waste the barrel life and components?
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
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Good points. I think Steelhead goes that route too. But I have spare leftover components sitting around, and one AI barrel in particular Im trying to use up.
"...the left considers you vermin, and they'll kill you given the chance..." Bristoe
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Campfire Tracker
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It is hard to USE UP an AI barrel, they just keep on ticking!
Fire forming with loads that are full pressure loads can leade to case stretching. If you use a 7mm ogive gage on your caliper, insert the 223 AI case neck into the ogive gage and measure....BINGO....you can measure the length of the cases in various lengths of fireforming.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 19,153 |
I just purchased my first 223 AI and stumbled on to a post of Steve Timm's while looking for load data that says once fired brass doesn't fireform well in the ackley. Who has experience with this? I was hoping to use 1x fired LC brass in my new rifle but don't want to waste the brass if it won't work out well. I would like to hear from anyone with expedience fireforming 223 Ai brass and also any load data would be great. Thanks Anneal it? That should soften it up so it flows to the right dimensions. kwg
For liberals and anarchists, power and control is opium, selling envy is the fastest and easiest way to get it. TRR. American conservative. Never trust a white liberal. Malcom X Current NRA member.
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Joined: Jan 2001
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,324 |
LC can run the gamut in relative quality. If it's a uniform Lot,nice things can be arranged,but the introduction of a poor lot which has been fired through a herd of different rifles,can take the fun out of things.
It will all go "Bang"...but it takes more than that to soothe me..................
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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I have never experienced any case stretching issues when fireforming, and all I use are full power loads. Further, I have no "stages" of fireforming. One load, and its formed.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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keith has a VERY vivid imagination.
Finite headspace control,is always a great move....no matter the chambering...............(hint)
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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Joined: Dec 2008
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Dec 2008
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OK, Im bored. What would you know about .223AI brass anyway?
"...the left considers you vermin, and they'll kill you given the chance..." Bristoe
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Joined: Jan 2001
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,324 |
I read an article in F&S.............
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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Joined: Dec 2008
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
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Crap! I knew you'd have a good answer!
"...the left considers you vermin, and they'll kill you given the chance..." Bristoe
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Joined: Jan 2001
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Posts: 58,324 |
It was mainly the pictures,that I remember................
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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Joined: Dec 2008
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 78,300 |
I saw some .223AI brass, for real, in person once.
"...the left considers you vermin, and they'll kill you given the chance..." Bristoe
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,324 |
I may solicit the Forum and ask for someone to Mail me one,as a picture is worth 1000 words and bird in hand must be good for 1,000,000................
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 78,300
Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 78,300 |
Its rare you know. Kinda like a 'wildcat' or something...
"...the left considers you vermin, and they'll kill you given the chance..." Bristoe
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,324 |
I bet somebody has one,they'd sell..............
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 78,300
Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Dec 2008
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"...the left considers you vermin, and they'll kill you given the chance..." Bristoe
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,324
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,324 |
It'll happen...some day.
The Turtle is a strong finisher................
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 511
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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Am I the only one that scrounges the bench for bullets and powder I no longer use, and do my fire forming with that�middle of the charts loads�..? Exactly what I do when fire forming. I just returned from fire forming some 35 Whelen AI brass this morning. I bought some cheap 358 bullets of various weights off this website for this task. I just weight sorted and loaded my powder charges according to bullet weight. I ended up with 200, 220 and 250 grain loads, but they all are forming perfectly. Kinda fun to just sit back and ring the 4" square gong with the old Weaver K4 that came with the rifle.
Goofy aka graybird on other forums
"Make no mistake, it's not revenge he's after ... it's the reckoning"
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Joined: Jan 2012
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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I had really good luck forming LC brass... Just load em and shoot em..
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Campfire Tracker
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OP
Campfire Tracker
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Just a quick update: I have been shooting my AI quite a bit and have had good luck fire forming 1x fired LC brass with 50 and 55 grain bullets and a near max charge of h335. accuracy fire forming has been wonderful.
I am seriously loving this rifle and this great little cartridge so far
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Joined: Dec 2008
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Dec 2008
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A consistent fire forming load like that will give you good accuracy, I think Steelhead takes a similar route, I just grab culls and piece together loads, hence my fire forming loads are not 'match' grade You will like the AI cartridge�.
"...the left considers you vermin, and they'll kill you given the chance..." Bristoe
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Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 7,197
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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It is hard to USE UP an AI barrel, they just keep on ticking!
Fire forming with loads that are full pressure loads can leade to case stretching. If you use a 7mm ogive gage on your caliper, insert the 223 AI case neck into the ogive gage and measure....BINGO....you can measure the length of the cases in various lengths of fireforming. I made a mistake in the above statement,I meant to say that if you don't use full pressure loads to fire form, it will leade to case stretching. I always fire form with full pressure loads, and Big Stick's statement on head spacing is dead nuts accurate and can not be stressed enough...crush fit on the case. I did not elaborate on just what a pain the azz LC brass can be. Depending on how good a particular lot# of LC runs, the brass can be great, or poor which will drive you crazy. I run Lake City on my short range coyote hunting. I sort all Lake City brass by year. If you want excellent results right out of the gate, don't go lake city, set up yourself for success by getting great components from the start. If you build a total custom rifle, then use Lake City, it May end up like wearing a three piece suit to your daughters wedding and wearing dirty tennis shoes with holes in them to save a few bucks on the rental fee of the tux.
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