Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Handguns Freedom Arms vs...say a Bowen, etc.

Getting back into revolvers and am thinking of tripping a couple of rifles, saving some moolah and getting a NICE revolver.

Now, there's ZERO doubt that a Bowen or Huntington is top notch, but is a FA a noticeable step down? I see a lot of Casulls for sale around $1500-1800.

I have no experience with either (actually, ANY high end handgun) and am wondering if the true customs are worth the extra green.

Note, I am not looking for a one-off, personalized type of deal but rather thinking of a stock PG FA vs. say, a Bowen Nimrod.

Anyone with experience with both?

I've got both. Nothing at all wrong with a Freedom Arms Revolver. Top notch Quaility and very accurate.

The Bowen Customs, are a work of art! Wouldn't take for mine. But it's gonna cost ya a lot more than the Freedom Arms. I could be happy with either, if I could only own one. Both will hold their Retail value, too.

I own and shoot both. Have 4 Bowen's........all full-blown Longhunter and 1 Nimrod. Also have 2 FA's....one a dual cylinder 45/454 and one 475L.

The FA's are excellent quality and vault tight. I would say fit and quality is definitely on par with a full custom (with custom cylinder and barrel). Get a FA and maybe upgrade to a Bowen later.

What caliber are you looking for??

I was debating a big honker like the .475 Linebaugh but the practical side of me kicked in and figured I could be perfectly happy with a .45 Colt, hence the interest in the FA Casulls I see all over the place.

I have an FA 83 and a number of full-blown custom 5-shot Rugers and I prefer the customs for a number of reasons. I am not particularly fond of the FA's action, and I don't like the fact that it doesn't have a transfer bar or similar safety mechanism. I also prefer blued steel to stainless. That said, you can still find good deals on used FAs.

But, I think that this is a tough act to follow:

I love my FA model 97 but the lack of a safety transfer bar in the model 83 will keep me from ever owning one. Not an issue with the custom Rugers.

Let's not leave out the BFR's they customize very well.

The FA 454's are relatively inexpensive only because they are common.

A matter of preference IMHO. I grew up shooting OM Rugers and have only kept or acquired pre-'73 OMs.

Don't like the safety bar NM BHs, as 5 beans in the wheel are enough for me in the applications I reserve for my SA revolvers. YMMV

Nice! Is that a JRH custom??

Here's a few shots of the FA after it came back from Mag-na-port for dual traps and cut to 4-3/4" with inverted crown. I'll port my FA's, but no way with the customs!!! The 45 Colt cylinder stays in it. Haven't even shot any 454's and don't really care to.

And the Bowen's! L to R:

Longhunter 5-shot 45 Colt Vaquero Bisley w/Grashorn Sheep Horn
Longhunter 480 Ruger 4" SS "Lightweight"
Longhunter 6-shot 44 Mag w/Fishpaw Walnut
Nimrod 500 L w/Grashorn stag



Bowen's 5-shot 45 cylinder:

Clearly, you prefer your Bowens and hence, have no need for this. You need to trip it!

Freedoms are not a large step down from high end customs. They are up there with them. Customs are fantastic too, Bowen being my favorite. JRH is also top notch. Freedom makes a gun that you will hand down many generations. They are absolutely fantastic in both fit and function. I have found them to be one of the most accurate guns produced. Maybe grab up a freedom then sometime down the road order a custom. Here is my present freedom as well as a ruger that Bowen worked over.

Both are awesome! Very nice...

I just might do the FA thing first and custom down the road. We'll see...

I think a lot of guys bought M83 FA when the .454 Casull was the hottest thing in town. Then they shot them and decided maybe they really didn't need that much recoil after all...

OP, if you shop around you should have no problem finding a nice freedom 83 in the $1200 price range.

A friend has one FA in 454 Casull and a 4.75" barreled 475 Linebaugh FA. While I am far from a big bore pistol man the recoil on those 2 are really rough. The Linebaugh had me after round 1.

Get the FA first. They are what I call a semi custom maker and offer a lot of options. I ordered my gun using their website and have what I consider a custom gun.

To me, gunmakers that use other people's actions as a basis for customization are just that: Customizers; not true custom gun makers.

How do you figure? Should they make the frame from scratch? Freedom doesn't cast their own frames, so I don't understand your point. All of the top custom revolver builders make the cylinders from scratch, and tweak just about all else and replace the barrel, etc. They are not what I would consider "just customizers."

BFR custom shop is all you need. Will out shoot any gun on the market. Get over all the clicks when cocking, animals do not put up with it.

While bfr's are a great value they are not better than the guns mentioned here. You have an ax to grind with freedom arms just so every one knows. Buy a freedom or a Bowen or a JRH or a Clement or a BFR ect. All will work and all will put meat in the freezer.

I'd much rather shoot a 475 or 500 Linebaugh. Feels like more of a rearward push to me, while the very hot 45 Colt loads are whippy. My favorite is the 480 Ruger. Lots of fun to shoot that one. And a heavy bullet at around 900 to 1,000 FPS is about all one needs.

That FA of yours may be the purtiest I've seen. Grips really set it off.

So how does a BFR engage the sear with absolutely no sound?? Magic?

No magic, I have had deer at 40 yards hear the "ONE" click and they did run off a ways, confused but I shot one. Imagine a Colt action with all the "clicks".
You can hold the trigger back with a Ruger and BFR until at full cock and then release with no sound. Sure, can do it with a Colt too but not many that hunt think about it.
Do you know some fools shooting CA change a Ruger to hear the clicks. But they do not hunt so it is OK.
The BFR will still out shoot any Freedom ever made. I have hundreds of sub 1/2" groups at 100 yards. Best was 2-1/2" at 500.
I shot IHMSA with a Ruger against Freedoms, production revolver, International class and put them in their place. They are too stinking tight and the cylinder can't be pulled to alignment by the bullet. That tight fit is a "FEEL GOOD" thing. Custom revolvers from Huntington will NOT have a tight lockup. He knows how to make a revolver. I would trust Bowen too, way before a Freedom. You do not know that not rocking a cylinder is bad as is a tight Belt Mountain pin fit. Brag and show to friends but show what you shoot.
This is Whitworths BFR in .500 JRH at 50 yards.
Three shots off hand at 100 with a Ruger .44.
freedom .454 at 50 yards.
I hate to ask for proof. but what else can i do?

Whitworth knows me and has seen me take 1" targets at 100 yards. Also a can at 200. He promotes the revolver and has a lot of good info but I always out shot him. not a brag but nobody has ever shot the revolver like me or knows more about them. I shoot all cast boolits that will out shoot most rifles.
100 yards with a BFR in .500 JRH.
.44 mag at 200 yards.
You can be one of these or your own man.

I did not see any targets shot at 100 yards showing a 1/2" group, much less "hundreds" of targets.

Funny grip but the Bowen is the best. Eye candy does not make a gun shoot.

let me look. I do not keep all targets. Marko shot first, can did not fall, I took the second shot. Exit holes.
Hole in the top is 5 shots with BFR revolver, others from a friends rifle.

been working with a 30-30 Marlin and a home made mold. Been under 1" at 100. can't shoot cast from a marlin? 3 shots at the can at 100.

Get the FA. You'll never regret it.

For me, I can do about anything I want with a hot loaded .45 Colt. I have several custom Rugers and prefer the older three screw design. Jim Stroh does great custom work, too.

I like the FA 97 more than the 83, like the way they did the transfer bar/safety set up better. I think carrying all chambers loaded is better with the newer design. I have a 97 six shooter in .357 and would probably get their 5 shot 97 over an 83. It's a smaller, handier frame and lighter, a much handier carry piece than the 83.

If you need the big rounds, of course, the 83 is your ticket. I'm just saying what I'd do, what I like and why.

DF

You lean on others and swing. I don't want you swinging on me, What I want is for you to prove what you say and do some work. I have been at this stuff way longer then most of you are old. I want nothing but to help.
I am taken wrong and been booted from sites by "KINGS OF THE HILL." Yet they quote me.
I am a simple guy with years of work but there is always someone with no experience but you will bow to them. Think for yourself without the brain washing.

What you don't know is all freedoms can not have all chambers filled because the hammer blocks and transfer bars can fail.
Look at warnings from Freedom. I have seen both fail. Too complicated with parts that wear too fast. very expensive but a poor design. Nothing will beat a Ruger transfer bar, NOT EVER. you will never beat a S&W either.

With FA and recessed case heads, it's hard to see the empty chamber under the hammer, compared to a Ruger or a Colt. How do you handle that?

And, if choosing between the 83 setup and the 97 setup, don't you think the 97 is a better design than the 83?

The S&W hammer block is probably the best system; the Ruger transfer bar can break.

DF

What matters is what fits best in your hands and hence what you shoot the best. Only you can answer that. As much as I like the Bisley and I've had the opportunity to fire many customs from Linebaugh, Huntington and Bowen, the SA that fits best in my hands is a FA 83 that's been round butted.

So when I take the plunge on a top notch revolver it'll be a mdl 83 built to my specs.

I don't look at one as "better" than the other, they are different and the differences are what must be studied. To paraphrase Bowen, a Ruger can never be rebuilt as tight as a Freedom Arms is from the start. Because they are built right from the start. They are built as precisely as possible and like any precision instrument, they shoot like it. That said, they leave me completely cold. To me, FA's have all the appeal of a precision surgical instrument. No soul, if that's what you want to call it. An FA can be made in any material and with any finish you like as long as it's brushed (or beadblasted as with the Field Grade) stainless steel. Options are limited and if you can find what you want within their parameters and price range, you can do no better.

A custom can be anything you want it to be. As plain or fancy as you like. As "standard" or accurate as you're willing to pay for. A full custom linebored Ruger will be every bit as accurate as an FA but it will also cost more. They can be fitted with the sights of your choosing. They can be finished in hot salt blue, rust blue, charcoal blue, nitre blue, color case hardening, any of the high tech coatings, hard chrome or nickel plated, etc.. The options are almost limitless. Barrels can be round, octagon or ovate. They can be retrofitted with DA barrels such as those from Colt's or S&W's. Top straps can be welded up and reshaped in the old M&P style, dovetailed Single Six or Colt SAA. Grip frames can be swapped, welded up and/or reshaped. Same for hammers & triggers. Like I said, anything you want.

BFR's are good guns, somewhere between FA and Ruger for quality. Perhaps most comparable to a mild custom Ruger. Lock is tighter, fit & finish is better and they are usually more accurate. Like FA's they only come in stainless steel and there are no options for swapping the grip frame but they can be reshaped. Contrary to the ramblings of a crazy old man, they are not better guns than FA and I'll gladly pay $100 for every half inch, five-shot group at 100yds. Problem with BFRSHOOTER is that he makes broadly sweeping conclusions based on singular, statistically insignificant events. Even his buddies at the treehouse club agree on that point. Sorry but two shots on a shotshell hull out of 20shots fired at 100yds don't add up to a half inch group.

Recoil is highly subjective and what you have to do is find what works for you. I'd suggest doing this before paying thousands of dollars for a custom or FA. Some folks like the FA, some prefer the Ruger Bisley, some like both. Best to figure this out before committing.



Most people would strongly disagree with that. If you think that R.F. Sedgley was just a "customizer" because he started with a Colt Flat-top Target to build the famous Keith #5, or Bowen using a USFA Flat-top to build his replica, then your compass is broken.

You got the simple part right. You're booted from sites for being a belligerent [bleep]. You have to work really hard to get banned from SA.com and yet you managed that feat. You're banned because you condescend and berate people who have earned their opinions the old fashioned way. Just as you claim you have done. You're banned because you think that talking trash about industry folk like Taffin, Prasac and Bob Baker make you more credible. All it really does is make you look like a fool.

Nobody is quoting you. Believe it or not, you are the originator of nothing and you have no secrets. Nobody is swinging from your balls or whatever you juvenile cretins accuse folks of.

I didn't make any accuracy statements. But you did. And you said you have shot "hundreds" of 1/2" groups at 100 yards with a BFR. And yet.....you didn't even keep one target?? How is that possible?

This right here is what
I'm talking about. So you cant shoot a freedom, that's you pal not the gun. Its amazing how mine have been extremely accurate. Not as accurate as you can shoot though but I'm not an all world shooter like yourself.

by the way, I can hit clay targets often at 100 yds with my freedom. Does that qualify me to be in the same room as you BFR? Difference with me is I don't call that 1/2" groups, I call it lucky lol

Back to the op, no matter which one of these you choose, you'll be happy. Whats nice about a custom is you can have it anyway you want. Just look at the beautiful works of art that 257 and whit have. BFR's are very accurate but the grip sucks if that matters to you. Rugers are a great base gun for the build of your dreams and freedoms are the best production gun made. Let us know what you end up doing and post lots of picks!

Thanks for all the advice to a newbie, guys. Appreciate it.

I tend to fall in the 'pretty is as pretty does" camp. I used to be a lover of beautiful wood and blueing but have kind of turned the other way. If I had a gun (rifle or revolver) that was just 'too pretty' I fear I would never take it outside....especially for what they cost.

When I get around to buying one, I think my top concerns would be comfort, durability and accuracy (keeping in mind that I've got a long way to go to consider myself a great handgun shot).

In reality, I would probably be happy with a FA, custom Ruger, BFR, or equivalent. I just doubt I'll be able to shoot any before ordering one so I may have to do as much 'internet' research as possible. I figure I mig be able to fondle a FA somewhere but the others...probably not.

Anyway, thanks again for sharing your thoughts and experiences. Every bit helps

Oh, and I probably will end up just going with the .45 Colt. Always been a .45 fan and there isn't anything that can't be done with it in a nice wheeler..

Did you find them?? "Hundreds" of 1/2" groups at 100 yards with a BFR is a hefty claim. Surely you have something to back it up?? I'd like to see a few pics of the revolver, too.

Come on down to Lubbock and you're welcome to try whatever I have. I'll even supply the ammo!

But I'm very embarrassed that I don't have a BFR for you to sample......NOT!

I have handled and shot both, and own a FA in 454, I dont possess the wheel gun knowledge to notice any differences between the two, I do however possess enough sense to know I have just handled two very fine revolvers.

Hey, you are an expert on these guns.

Don't they make a lot of noise and kick pretty hard...

DF

If you're not sure and are sticking with the 45 colt, get one of the bisley 45 convertables and put a couple thousand rounds through it.



When you've found what you do and don't like about the gun, have someone like Jack Huntington address those issues. If you just don't like the gun, I'm pretty sure you'll be able to sell it for nearly what you have in it, at most you'd take a $100 hit.

I have a couple of Redhawk conversions, but like the stock Bisley 45 Colt stainless steel 5 1/2" model with spare .45 ACP cylinder. Any improvements by a top of the line gunsmith will only make a good gun better. I personally would convert a .44 Magnum or smaller Ruger Bisley Stainless into a custom minimum spec cylinder model in .45 Colt.

Excellent taste in single malt as well, sir!

Best Advice in the whole thread... doesn't have to be the convertible (with the 45 acp cylinder) though, just the 45 Colt version will do and will run you less money. Unless of course you also have a 45 acp pistol!

Jerry

That is good advice.

Another custom builder is Jim Stroh at Alpha Precision. I bought a used Ruger Bisley in .45 Colt that he built. I also had him line bore a three screw SBH, opening it from .44 mag to .45 Colt. It has a Shilen barrel, Jim's custom front sight, full length steel ejector housing and is really accurate. I did a trigger stop and tuned the trigger.

You can tell I like the .45 Colt round. Not much you can't do with one of those, the right loads in a strong gun crafted to suit the situation.

25 yd. target off the bench, 255 gr. Keith type SWC. 4227 is a great .45 Colt powder.

DF






Now for something different, try the 270 gr. Thunderhead from Penn bullets. Check out that meplat...

That's one hog whacker...

It's not named Thunderhead for nothing...

Not quite as accurate as a SWC, but pretty good.

I didn't realize the 5 1/2" ss Bisley is again available as a distributor exclusive. That said, the 45 acp cylinder can easily be reamed to a minimum spec 45 colt cylinder.

Still see them on gun broker most all the time, so the supply is not dry... Yet. AND... if you decide later you want the acp cylinder it will cost you more to pick up a cylinder than just buying the gun with one.

Jerry

There is always a couple of dealers selling them over on the Ruger Forum and pretty fair prices.

I bought mine from a dealer on that forum, he has one for sale now for $575 shipped.

LOL, my 500 loaded full bore was the very definition of 'too much of a good thing'