Home Forums Lever Action Central Big Bore Levers Hello - New Member and 45-70 Leverlution question

Hello! New page member here... this could be a rather addicting place! I'm looking for a bit of insight. I had a 22" Marlin in 45-70 a few years back that I ended up having to sell. Regreted it the moment the sale was complete. So, last week picked up a new Marlin guide gun in 45-70. Not having had a 45-70 in a bit I thought I'd do a little research to see what ammo is available these days for the rifle, best options, etc. Unfortunately, I don't reload, yet. Anyway, the rifle came with a box of Remington 405 grain shells (semi jacketed flat points), a box of Rem. 300 HP's and a box of 325 grain Leverlutions from Hornady. I've heard the Remington factory 405's are a decent round, even if a little under powered. I've been reading up on the Leverlutions as well, and have read some posts here on the ammo... the thing I notice in my reading is several posts (here and other sites) are a couple of years old and mainly speak of how the rounds do on paper and on deer (I hunt mule deer). The thing I'm not finding is how the round does with the heavier boned elk we find here in Idaho. 405's I know will punch right through... but is there anyone who's hunted elk with the leverlution and have been successful with it? Where did you hit the animal and how did it perform?

Thanks in advance for your insight!
Mark (mlrshooter)

Mark, I have a Marlin 1895 SS. Never killed an elk with it. HOWEVER,I DO have 2 Sharps Buffalo rifles and have killed a Newfie moose and a Wyoming buffler. Like dropping a safe on their heads. A 500 lb wild pig sow fell to the slightly(?) less powerful one. Same ending. A 45/70 loaded with 420 grain cast bullets at 20:1 at 1300 would smoke half a dinosaur out of his sandals. It is the sight system you wanna look at. The 405 you have will do any critter you want.

Thanks for the reply. Followup questions... and it may simply be that I'm not fully understanding your answer...

1) cast bullets, I assume you are speaking of those a reloader may "make" with molds, etc., on his own? Or commercially made?

2) With the 405 grain shells I have on hand... are we talking 100 yards or less? Can I take a 150-200 yard shot (If I do my part, of course) with it? I hunt pretty brushy/timbered areas... but have had opportunities to take animals on the other side of a clearing off a ridge I hunt at 225 yards +. I don't mind getting in close... the stalk is a pretty cool rush, actually.

3) I know the 45-70 is my no means a long range round. I just want to know my ethical limitations with some of the commercial (and affordable) loads out there. Those Hornady Leverlutions are supposed to extend your range a bit, but I'm also concerned about the bullet holding up if I nail a big bull in the shoulder bond.

Thanks, again, for your insight!!

Well,no.1-Yep,I cast my own from lead/tin at 30:1 for most,20:1 for others. Range for a 45/70?? It is ALL in the sights. FlyboyFlem uses irons on his 444 Marlin out to 300 yards. The 45/70 is fully capable of taking big critters for farther than you would believe. "Point Blank" shooting is good for about 125 yards. IF you have good quick adjust iron sights,it is good for a LOOONNNNGGG way out if you are a good shot. My Pard Gunner 500 hits the steel pigs at 500 with no problem with his 45/70 using BLACK POWDER!! 405's are easily good for 150 with a slight adjustment. Shoot the daylights out of the gun at 100-200 yards and see how you want to place the sights..

Do you know about PM's here???

My reccomendation for elk with a 45-70 would be the Buffalo Bore Factory Ammo with the Hard Cast Bullets. They will out Penatrate all other Factory 45-70 loads that you mentioned.

Of the loads you mentioned, they will all kill elk. And like with any game animal, it's all about shot placement and knowing the range & capability of your ammo.

I consider my Marlin 1895 to be a 150 yard elk rifle, because of the low powered scope mounted on it, not the cartridge. There's lots of stories of the old time bison hunters killing stuff well over 1000 yards with a 45-70.
That's all well and good, but that doesn't mean that I'm that capable of doing the same. I know my shooting limitations, and sure as heck don't won't to wound an elk because of my crappy shooting ability at 1000 yards. .

By the way, My Marlin 1895 hates the LeverLution Ammo. Groups spread to 5" at 100 yards. Maybe it's just my rifle, but mine will shoot the 300 grain HP's into a 3-shot 1" group at 100 yards.
Find out what your particular Marlin shoots the most accurately and then spend some trigger time practicing with that particular load. It will pay of on a future hunt. Enjoy your new rifle & good luck on an Elk Hunt. The real work starts when you get one on the ground!

WHY does everyone want to use hardcast???? That is like shooting an elk with a 458 Winchester mag SOLID. Most would not consider using such a combination opting for an expanding bullet A 20:1 400+ grain cast slug at 1300-1400 fps will penetrate like a cannon shell. A Speer 400 g flatpoint at 1500 will do in critters a ways out, one just needs to do the shooting and learn his rifle. It is one helluva lot of fun to really get into shooting a rifle enough to really learn it and it translates into lead flyin' and meat fryin'

You certainly know my pref in the 444 and it sure isn't hard cast.My 310 gr gas check cast 30:1 will not only penetrate plenty but created havoc on the vitals as it blows through.If rock hard bullets were so necessary then we'd all be shooting solids.A good 300-400 grainer outta either the 444 or 45/70 at modest velocities will buckle knees on most critters within ones own comfort zone and do it efficiently even at extended ranges.

This may or may not be the same bullet ET and Flyboy Flem are speaking about . . . but I am certain theirs are very similar.

Pic of a Lyman 457193 RNFP 405 gr bullet cast 30:1 (weight as cast is actually about 415 gr). Pic is obviously an as cast and a recovered bullet - the recovered bullet was 412 gr after going through both shoulders of a 230# white tail and stopping short of exiting. Shot was at 35-40 yards from a 45-70 Marlin 1895 Cowboy (smokeless load at about 1600 fps) - this deer dropped like he had been hit on the head with the hammer of Thor. Nothing wrong with cast bullet performance here.

Dandy picture Nick not many jacketed can better that performance..

ET, with the right meplat, the damage the LBT type bullets do can be impressive.

And, you are correct in stating that a 400+ cast or the 400 grain speer will kill things. With authority.

Perhaps one of the best bullets I've used for killing deer has been the 300 grain Speer UniCor at just under 2200 fps. That's an impressive bullet that does not do excessive damage at that speed. That bullet holds together well enough that I wouldn't be afraid to use it on Elk or Moose.

I still like my LBT bullets, using them in a .44 mag and my .45-70. I've not had deer run any further when double-lunged, and I know I can break runnin' gear from any angle

Don't need to throw 'em fast Vic. Ya really don't. Using the buffalo guns has taught me a LOT about big bores(44's and 45's)with softer bullets at lower speeds. They really are friggin' hammers.

Yep. My experience too. An LBT bullet with a big ole wide flat meplat does a lot of damage. I prefer the LBT WFN bullet. They will shoot end to end through a big ole feral hog, with large diameter damage all the way AND a entrance AND a exit wound, also.

Oh, I've been watching what you guys say, and you ain't wrong! When you get 400+ grains moving along, it's a hammer.


I just like exploiting versatility. That big ol' case can do a lot of things.


The funny thing is that I've gotten to where I like the .45-70 with a 435 to 500 grain bullet moving along at 1500 to 1700 fps. I feel well armed.

I know you probably feel that's too fast, but remember, I'm still evolving in this big-bore thing.

I know in my little .44 mag rifle, the WFN really impresses me. At 1575 fps, a 300 grain WFN digs deep! I have zipped them stem to stern, and the bullet is probably still rattling around in the woods.

This turned into a good discussion, I am learning more than I thought I could on cast bullets, etc... Good show, men. Carry on!!

My favorite hunk of lead, Lee 310 gr gas check for the 44mag and 444 cast at 30:1. Killed deer with both chamberings very efficiently and certainly no need for a jacketed counterpart whatsoever.

It has a way of doing that The main point though is to bring our new guy O.P. up to speed on realizing how much real capability he has with the Marlin 1895SS. AND that one does NOT need to have high velocity with one to do some heavy duty long range critter killing capability!


...and think about it! The powder ya save going a bit lower vel can be used to put out a few more rounds of shooting fun

Those are some nice looking bullets!

These guys have done far more than I have with cast bullets, and one more I would give a listen to is "Sharpsguy".

Indeed, a very interesting discussion! For more then a dozen years now, I have been using a 1895 XLR. I have used nothing but soft cast,(95% lead, 3% antimony, 2% tin) gced bullets in this gun. I have shot deer at ranges well over 200 yds., bear at distances over 150 yds., every animal has been a 1 shot kill, using a Kieth design, Rapine mold bullet (drops 333gr.). Every shot has been a clear thru shot! I keep wishing that I'd have at least one bullet, not go thru, so I can see how it flattens. This year, I'm going to use a new bullet, from the NOE HP mold, that drops 324 gr., in hopes that maybe I will find a bullet in one of my carcasses, just so I can see how it flattens!
A very good thing about the .45-70, no blood shot meat! Ya can eat right up to the hole!