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"2. To date, they've been kicking ass pretty well all by their lonesome.."

in the fighter jets they built in their factories? with the missile defense they designed and built in Israel?

Quit crappin on their Zionist wet dreams.

SanSouchi - please stop embarrassing California. We are quite capable of doing it ourselves without your rants.

True, but remember Israel choose to put themselves in that situation by establishing their country there by force in 1948. If you go back further to the years after WW1 when control of the area passed from Turkish to the British administration, a census of the area showed a population of about � Million, of which 75% were Muslim and only 10% were Jewish. In the years that followed, especially after WW2, there was the mass Jewish immigration.

Early Jewish leaders also rejected various plans for a partitioned country, instead wanting a return to the boundaries of biblical Israel. It is therefore hardly surprising the whole area became a powder keg and remains so today.

Does that mean I think Israel should be wiped off the face of the earth? No, of course not, and of course they have a right to self-defence.

My point is that much of the situation Israel finds its self in today is down to their own doing and in many ways they are reaping what they have historically sowed.

Here I was thinking someone had an excellent analogy, only to see after reading further that you have the parties in the wrong positions.

Dont you think you should ask yourself how the Muslims got there?Ill help.They got there by conquest.The Hebrews were just taking it back.You seem to think that the Arabs that invaded Israel can take what they want but the Hebrews cant.I dont understand that thinking.

You really try to justify the formation of modern Israel in 1948 because it undone Arab wrong doings a couple of thousand ago?
In general, its easier to say the area has been settled mostly by the Arabs with a Jewish minority for most of recent history. The Ottoman Turks conquered the area and administered it on and off since the 1500�s until post WW1. Prior to the 1500�s, it was ruled by various Muslim rulers, including the Egyptians, the West captured and lost it a number of times and even the Mongols raided the area.

If you look at Syria, it too has a very similar history, and around the time Palestine became a British mandate, modern Syria was formed as a French one..

In the 1920�s, the various Palestinian/Arab tribes, along with their Jewish counter parts, for the most part could be considered indigenous to the region and DNA indicates their combined ancestry is a bit of a melting pot, but does back a couple of thousand years, but they had not had any autonomous rule for at least a 1000 years, probably in excess of 1500 years! So to suggest the formation of a modern Jewish state in 1948 is somehow correcting a historical wrong is in itself wrong..

A best its just a continuation of the unrest that�s always been in the region.

So you are saying we set a date some time in history where we change the rules.What is allowed and not allowed.How about we pick just one standard instead of changing to suit your wants.The Arab invasion was in the 10th century AD.Now when Hitler tried to rule the world its a bad thing but when the Arabs do it thats acceptable.Pick one standard.

I'm sorry Pete, we're not allowed to focus on that part of the story here in the States. Makes the Izzies look a little too much like Mexicans to suit our purposes, and it's bad for business.

I really don't know how to respond to that line of "logic"?

If you are suggesting the Jews are some how the righful
owners of that bit of real estate in the ME, surely Native Americans are the rightful rulers of the USA?

What I am saying is that modern Israel was formed using force in 1948 and the current wars/unrest are just a continuation of whats always gone on in that area.

Well, HE has not yet asked me what I think about Him having fulfilled the prophecy of the Jews regaining the homeland He gave them.

I suppose a case could be made for us in the USA to move out and give this place back to the hostiles.

Im saying that through history man has taken from others to establish their own.Im an American,we understand this.My point is that you seem to exclude the Jews from what man has always done.How are they different?When did we change the rules?

That is where he is going but then he will have to give back his home ect.

Frankly, that�s the sort of response I'd expect from a school child.

Israel has routinely spied on America. This is not open for debate as it has been proven in your Courts.
I am not particularly anti Israel but I don�t view them with rose tinted glasses either. Israel as a nation is the consummate �user� and puts its own national self-interests very much first. They can broadly be considered an ally of America and the West at the moment only because our respective national interests are similar. Israel and her supports are not trust worthy as the attack on the USS Liberty and its willingness to carry out aggressive espionage operations against its supposedly staunchest ally prove.
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That sums it up very accurately for me.

Why cant you accept that we are all squatters.This is the history of mankind.That fairytale world of yours dosnt exist.

So you'd be fine with the UN ordering that Texas is now part of Mexico and giving the land only to people of Mexican descent? Then they could herd all the white folk into a giant open air concentration camp by Galveston. I'm sure you'd be fine with that, right?

Btw the fake Jews in Israel are not related the the biblical Hebes.

Thats what you are saying.I say Im keeping it.Just like the Jews are keeping theirs.

You obviously need another cup of coffee.

The only thing that was �proven� was Fog of War.

The attack on the USS Liberty is a fine example of anti-Israel propaganda.
Never mind that all those many investigations found it to be caused by the fog that occurs in all wars.

Including Israeli pilots that first radioing for a S&R for Egyptian survivors.
Never mind that...all part of the cover up.

Except...that in 48 years it never happened again and no one has ever come up with any reasonable reason why Israel would attack their biggest and most steadfast ally.

Give it up ghost.I give the Jews in Israel the same right to defend what they have that I give myself.How is that hard for you to understand.