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Down at the tire shop last week and my cell phone goes off and it's my friend he asks if I'm heading home soon and I said yes in about fifteen minutes, he says "would you please stop by the house". I said ok. I pull up and he's sitting on his porch as I get closer I see his face is bleeding. I said what the heck happened to you and he points down the porch to a card table with his rifle sitting on it. The rifle, a Ruger left hand model 77 in .204 Ruger is sitting there in pieces. Holy cow, what happened? Here's the deal, and you guys tell me what went wrong. Gun is new with sixteen rounds of Remington factory shot through it. Everything fine. Buys brand new Remington brass, full length sizes them, checks to be sure they are the proper over all length, uses BR-4 primers, 29 grains of Hodgdon CFE 223, with a Hornady 30 grain V-max. Loads two in magazine, one in chamber. Touches the first round off, no problem. Chambers the second round and Kaboom !! Opened the floor plate and bent the floor plate in about a 30* angle, smashed the round in the magazine and pushed the bullet out and dumped the powder on the table. Peeled the extractor ring off of the bolt and split the stock from the forearm to past the pistol grip. I've seen these blow ups in magazines, but this was my first one in person. Told him how glad I was that he was wearing glasses. WOW ! First thing I asked him, was the barrel blocked with the first round and he says no. (there were two holes in the target). Then asked about the reload, we checked and 29 grains of CFE 223 is ok. He did everything right as far as I can see. Asked if he was sure he had the right powder on the bench when he was reloading and he says he only puts one powder on the bench at a time while reloading. We tugged on the bolt, but it was locked up tight just I figured it would be. He said he was going to call Ruger to see if they would take a look at it. The guy is honest, so I figure as soon as Ruger learns they were reloads they are going to says it's his fault. Oh, by the way, we pulled the remaining rounds and weighed the charges and they were right at 29 grains. That's all I can think of to tell you guys right now, so if you have any ideas or suggestions on what happened, we sure would like to hear them. I told him the next time he touches on off he's probably going to be gritting his teeth, closing both eyes and looking the other way and jerking the trigger and he says he may never shoot a rifle again. So there you have it. Not good any way you slice it. If there is a defect in the brass or rifle or if for some reason Hodgdon may have filled the canisters with the wrong powder it sure would be nice to get it straightened out before anyone else get buggered up. RRM
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Wow. reloaders nightmare.
I've no idea what happened to cause the blow . Thinking the first bullet didn't leave the barrel, on second shot, both bullets exited as the gun blew.
Last edited by websterparish47; 07/22/14.
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Amazed with that amount of damage the bullet had enough push left to make it very far downrange. Was it a distant target with two round bullet holes in it or one up close just to check the loads? Is it possible he got a .223 round chambered? Be nice to see the headstamp in the chambered brass.
“When Tyranny becomes Law, Rebellion becomes Duty”
Colossians 3:17 (New King James Version) "And whatever you do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through Him."
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Campfire Kahuna
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As one expert who testified at a lot of trials and hearings about firearms blow-ups once noted, sometimes it's very difficult if not impossible to tell what happened, because the evidence is often gone! Just because any remaining ammunition is fine doesn't mean the one round that blew up the gun was normal.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck
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Just a thought but if he still has some unloaded bullets from the same box he loaded he may want to take a look at them. A few years ago I purchased some new sealed box of 22 caliber bullets made by a major manufacturer, as I was loading rounds I picked up a bullet that for some reason didn't feel right, I took a look at it and it was a 6mm bullet rather than .224. I looked through the rest of the box and found 2 more 6 mm,s mixed in the box.
That was a one time experience over a lot of years of reloading but things like that do happen.
drover
223 Rem, my favorite cartridge - you can't argue with truckloads of dead PD's and gophers.
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had the exact same thing happen to my 1st ruger VT 204. Only difference was, it blew up in my face with a Hornady factory load. Ruger eventually replaced the rifle (took 5 months) with no explanation other than 'overpressure situation'. They did, however, send the gun to Hornady for them to check it out later. Don't be expecting a replacement if they know it was handloads.....
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another thing... Ruger tried to say the rifle was not repairable, and offered another new one at cost. I don't know how that works, but 'cost' was only 40 bucks cheaper than I bought it new at the LGS.... When I told them to return my stuff, the tune changed. I was told that it was rugers company policy to not let any gun that was 'overpressured' back onto the streets. They then said a new one would be sent out if I signed a paper. After jumping thru the the hoops, a new one arrived on my doorstep.....
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Wow. Could it be a Ruger problem or a cartridge problem? I am inheriting a Remington 204 from my dad, and I don't think he has ever shot it. Makes me concerned to begin loading for it.
I belong on eroding granite, among the pines.
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What did the target look like?
1Minute
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The target was set about fifty yards away and the two holes were about three inches low and three inches to the left. They looked round, not key holed at all. RRM
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So that probably rules out oversize or stuck projectiles. Took a LOT of pressure to do that much damage and still put the bullet on paper. ??????????????
“When Tyranny becomes Law, Rebellion becomes Duty”
Colossians 3:17 (New King James Version) "And whatever you do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through Him."
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Gun is new with sixteen rounds of Remington factory shot through it. Everything fine. Buys brand new Remington brass, full length sizes them... He full-length sized brand new brass? Could he have oversized it and created a headspace issue? Lucky on the first one, not so lucky on the next...? As drover said, perhaps an oversized bullet in a batch is a possibillity. I've had that before, but it was a .358 bullet among .264 bullets, so it was a little but obvious... Was the second round difficult to chamber?
“There are three things all wise men fear: the sea in storm, a night with no moon, and the anger of a gentle man.” ― Patrick Rothfuss, The Wise Man's Fear
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Could he have oversized it and created a headspace issue? Pushing the shoulder too far back shouldn't make the rifle explode. It would have just fireformed the brass
One shot, one kill........ It saves a lot of ammo!
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Wow, that was a close call! I think the first hand loaded case may harbor the mystery to what happened when the second one was fired. My thought is the first case set up the explosive reaction to the second live round. There had to be some obstruction created. A portion of the first bullet?
Last edited by bigwhoop; 07/22/14.
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Having mistakenly shoved a .257" bullet into a 6mm-284 case, I'd think that it would be rather obvious that something was amiss. I believe the man would have noticed something wasn't right while seating bullets if there was a bullet of the wrong diameter in the box he was reloading from. But then again...
Don't be the darkness.
America will perish while those who should be standing guard are satisfying their lusts.
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Azar, no. He said all the rounds chambered real smooth. Did not have to push down on the bolt handle hard at all. Rounds slipped right in. That's the problem, we can't figure out what went wrong. Especially on our end. Like I said, maybe Hodgdon slipped up and sent out powder in the wrong canisters. Who knows ???? RRM
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Call Hodgdon. Talk to them. They are fine people.
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S.E.E. (?) WAG.
The 280 Remington is overbore.
The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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Check to see if he used the new CFE 223 pistol powder instead of the rifle powder. That would explain it.
Welcome to TN - patron state of shootin’ stuff
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Did a quick search on The powder. There are other reports of "excessive" pressures.
See what Hodgdon has to say.
Gun Shows are almost as comical as boat ramps in the Spring.
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I think I would want to get someone to check out that powder. Weird stuff happens, but for the most part there is a reason it happens. It seems to me that the powder(either type of powder or the amount of powder) would be the only component that could make that much of a difference.
To me, the easiest mistake to make, that is associated with loading powder, is an attempted double charge. I always take a look once the cases are charged to see if the levels are the same before seating the bullets. I don't know a thing about a 204, will a 204 case even take a double 29gr charge without spilling all over the pace. My guess is that it would not and an attempt to double charge would be an obvious mess. I just wonder if he has the right powder in the can. Didn't buy the can of powder "new" at a gun show did he?
Harry
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Check to see if he used the new CFE 223 pistol powder instead of the rifle powder. That would explain it. I wasn't aware they were making a CFE Pistol powder. I took a look at the canisters and if someone wasn't pay enough attention it is easy to see how they could be confused, this seems like a real recipe for disaster. drover
223 Rem, my favorite cartridge - you can't argue with truckloads of dead PD's and gophers.
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Gotta be a powder switch issue to cause that kind of carnage. Glad everyone's OK! It could have easily been much worse. I'm afraid that would end my rifle "career."
Our God reigns. Harrumph!!! I often use quick reply. My posts are not directed toward any specific person unless I mention them by name.
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There's no way to double charge the 204. You can put a couple of grains more than you should, but no double charge. The guy is a good reloader. He even has two scales, an older manual 10-10 I believe and an electric. When he pulled the bullets on the remaining rounds to check the powder charge he used both scales to double check and the load was 29 grains. The more I think about it the only thing that I keep coming up with is something with the powder. How long has CFE 223 been on the shelves? Anyone hear of other problems when CFE 223 has been involved? Big Redhead, he too has mentioned that his rifle days may be over. Thanks goes out to all of you guys for trying to piece this puzzle together, it's appreciated. RRM
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Could there have been a small amount of a different powder left in the hopper from a previous reloading session? The bottom, non-translucent part of it could easily hide a decent amount of a fast burning pistol powder if one wasn't being careful. An accidental duplex load of pistol and rifle powder?
Dump in CFE 223 without properly checking for a small amount of remaining powder, drop a measured 29 grains and seat a bullet. All rounds are normal, sans the first one. Said duplex load gets shot on the 2nd round and chaos ensues.
To me, that would explain why the first shot was fine and why all pulled loads showed what appears to be 29 grains of CFE 223.
The bottom of a powder hopper could easily hide 10 grains of Bullseye, etc.
“There are three things all wise men fear: the sea in storm, a night with no moon, and the anger of a gentle man.” ― Patrick Rothfuss, The Wise Man's Fear
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Could there have been a small amount of a different powder left in the hopper from a previous reloading session? The bottom, non-translucent part of it could easily hide a decent amount of a fast burning pistol powder if one wasn't being careful. An accidental duplex load of pistol and rifle powder?
Dump in CFE 223 without properly checking for a small amount of remaining powder, drop a measured 29 grains and seat a bullet. All rounds are normal, sans the first one. Said duplex load gets shot on the 2nd round and chaos ensues.
To me, that would explain why the first shot was fine and why all pulled loads showed what appears to be 29 grains of CFE 223.
The bottom of a powder hopper could easily hide 10 grains of Bullseye, etc. Very plausible explanation. That is the kind of thing I mentioned. I don't doubt the guy is a "good reloader", no slight intended. But "doo-doo occurs."
Our God reigns. Harrumph!!! I often use quick reply. My posts are not directed toward any specific person unless I mention them by name.
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Just a ? Did he actually pull the trigger on the 2d round - or did it go off on chambering ?(a high primer situation)
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No, he pulled the trigger and he always uses a powder trickler when he reloads rifle cartridges so there is no way another powder was involved. He told me the other night that Ruger now has the rifle, but they have not gotten back with him on their findings yet. RRM
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Does ruger service still take the whole month of August off? it may be a while till he hears from them......
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